DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle East

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_Lemmie
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Re: DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle

Post by _Lemmie »

Apparently McKane has also been spreading his same charming habits and repetitive posts elsewhere:
Del, February 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, to blogger David McKane, [ https://www.blogger.com/profile/06849621839266310554 ]

DAVID: YOUR REDUNDANT AND REPETITIVE COMMENTS ARE NO LONGER WELCOME HERE SINCE THEY ADD NOTHING TO OUR OVERALL PURPOSE OF DISCUSSING THE SCRIPTURAL RECORD. YOUR 22 POSTS ON OUR BLOG IN ONE DAY WITH NOTHING BUT REPEATED ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE REPEATEDLY BEEN ANSWERED IS A DISTRACTION TO OUR READERS AND A WASTE OF TIME FOR US.

IF YOU KEEP POSTING, WE WILL SIMPLY ERASE THEM. WHEN THE CURRENT SERIE ANSWERING YOUR COMMENTS IS CONCLUDED IN A FEW DAYS, WE WILL AGAIN LOOK AT YOUR COMMENTS—IF THEY ARE NEW MATERIAL, WE WILL RESPOND TO THEM, IF NOT, YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY REMOVED FROM THIS BLOG AS AN ANNOYANCE
http://nephicode.blogspot.com/2017/02/a ... rt_11.html
and, from same link,
Del, February 12, 2017 at 10:45 AM
The problem is, David, you have turned MY blog into a confrontational work and that is not what this is about. You must not have served a mission, for there you are taught that confrontation, arguing, debating is contrary to the Spirit of Truth. So I am offering you one last chance here to either be reasonable and recognize that if you have a viewpoint and it is COUNTERED, then go on to something else. Repeating what has already been answered and shown to be in error, whether you agree or not, ends that conversation unless you have something to add to it not already covered. You don’t add to your credibility or to your point by continuing to parrot the same information that has already been shown to be in error.
_The CCC
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Re: DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle

Post by _The CCC »

Themis wrote:
The CCC wrote:Religion is not genetic.


But claims about a real Lehi and Nephi are.


Lehi was not a Jew, and Sariah's genetics are unknown.
_Maksutov
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Re: DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle

Post by _Maksutov »

Lemmie wrote:Apparently McKane has also been spreading his same charming habits and repetitive posts elsewhere:
Del, February 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, to blogger David McKane, [ https://www.blogger.com/profile/06849621839266310554 ]

DAVID: YOUR REDUNDANT AND REPETITIVE COMMENTS ARE NO LONGER WELCOME HERE SINCE THEY ADD NOTHING TO OUR OVERALL PURPOSE OF DISCUSSING THE SCRIPTURAL RECORD. YOUR 22 POSTS ON OUR BLOG IN ONE DAY WITH NOTHING BUT REPEATED ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE REPEATEDLY BEEN ANSWERED IS A DISTRACTION TO OUR READERS AND A WASTE OF TIME FOR US.

IF YOU KEEP POSTING, WE WILL SIMPLY ERASE THEM. WHEN THE CURRENT SERIE ANSWERING YOUR COMMENTS IS CONCLUDED IN A FEW DAYS, WE WILL AGAIN LOOK AT YOUR COMMENTS—IF THEY ARE NEW MATERIAL, WE WILL RESPOND TO THEM, IF NOT, YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY REMOVED FROM THIS BLOG AS AN ANNOYANCE
http://nephicode.blogspot.com/2017/02/a ... rt_11.html
and, from same link,
Del, February 12, 2017 at 10:45 AM
The problem is, David, you have turned MY blog into a confrontational work and that is not what this is about. You must not have served a mission, for there you are taught that confrontation, arguing, debating is contrary to the Spirit of Truth. So I am offering you one last chance here to either be reasonable and recognize that if you have a viewpoint and it is COUNTERED, then go on to something else. Repeating what has already been answered and shown to be in error, whether you agree or not, ends that conversation unless you have something to add to it not already covered. You don’t add to your credibility or to your point by continuing to parrot the same information that has already been shown to be in error.


Wow. Quite the compulsive troll. I hope there is research into cyberpsychiatry or its equivalent going on. Someday I hope we can understand what's up with these folks. :eek:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Themis
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Re: DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle

Post by _Themis »

The CCC wrote:Lehi was not a Jew, and Sariah's genetics are unknown.


I said we know what region the Book of Mormon claims they came from. I noticed you ignored Fence Sitter post about being able to see a DNA infusion if one happened 3k years ago. I also mentioned we see one from 6k years a ago from Japan. We also found pottery patterns they brought with them.
42
_tapirrider
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Re: DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle

Post by _tapirrider »

Lemmie wrote:Apparently McKane has also been spreading his same charming habits and repetitive posts elsewhere:
Del, February 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, to blogger David McKane, [ https://www.blogger.com/profile/06849621839266310554 ]

DAVID: YOUR REDUNDANT AND REPETITIVE COMMENTS ARE NO LONGER WELCOME HERE SINCE THEY ADD NOTHING TO OUR OVERALL PURPOSE OF DISCUSSING THE SCRIPTURAL RECORD. YOUR 22 POSTS ON OUR BLOG IN ONE DAY WITH NOTHING BUT REPEATED ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE REPEATEDLY BEEN ANSWERED IS A DISTRACTION TO OUR READERS AND A WASTE OF TIME FOR US.

IF YOU KEEP POSTING, WE WILL SIMPLY ERASE THEM. WHEN THE CURRENT SERIE ANSWERING YOUR COMMENTS IS CONCLUDED IN A FEW DAYS, WE WILL AGAIN LOOK AT YOUR COMMENTS—IF THEY ARE NEW MATERIAL, WE WILL RESPOND TO THEM, IF NOT, YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY REMOVED FROM THIS BLOG AS AN ANNOYANCE
http://nephicode.blogspot.com/2017/02/a ... rt_11.html
and, from same link,
Del, February 12, 2017 at 10:45 AM
The problem is, David, you have turned MY blog into a confrontational work and that is not what this is about. You must not have served a mission, for there you are taught that confrontation, arguing, debating is contrary to the Spirit of Truth. So I am offering you one last chance here to either be reasonable and recognize that if you have a viewpoint and it is COUNTERED, then go on to something else. Repeating what has already been answered and shown to be in error, whether you agree or not, ends that conversation unless you have something to add to it not already covered. You don’t add to your credibility or to your point by continuing to parrot the same information that has already been shown to be in error.


:sad:
_Xenophon
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Re: DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle

Post by _Xenophon »

Just wanted to share a podcast from FiveThirtyEight's Spark series that came out. It is a conversation between Kim TallBear (author of Native American DNA: Tribal Belonging and the False Promise of Genetic Science) and 538 staff. It struck me as especially interesting given tapir's attempts to point out to McKane that his approach to genetics is racist and supremacist in nature. It is only 40 minutes (and well worth the listen) but the first 10-15 hits really hard on some of the problems within the community, particularly among amateurs.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... genealogy/
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
_ClarkGoble
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Re: DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle

Post by _ClarkGoble »

Fence Sitter wrote:
The CCC wrote:Religion is not genetic.


How was the patriarchal priesthood passed down in Mormonism?

Joseph Smith thought it was genetic.


It's a little more complex than that. He thought some had the right to priesthood because of lineage. Aaronic priests are the obvious example. Part of the problem is that there are a few senses of patriarchal priesthood he discusses. There's that lineage based priesthood in D&C 107. But then there's the patriarchal order of the priesthood which Joseph tied around 1843 to the temple sealing and which is held by both men and women. The details in all this aren't quite agreed upon by historians that I can see. My sense (perhaps wrong) is that it's more or less the idea of being born in the covenant.

That said I think Joseph also thought there were elements to all this that today we'd call genetic. How seriously to take all that isn't at all clear. But if religion has some reality to it, then we'd expect there'd be some genetic element selected for. Even the evolutionary psychological explanations of evolution such as Scott Atran's discuss a lot of the genetic issues that affect aspects of religiousity. From a religious perspective though we'd want to distinguish between false belief due to false positives in discernment and a real ability to discern spiritual reality. (I recognize most here will take Atran's position that it's all false positives)
_tapirrider
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Re: DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle

Post by _tapirrider »

Xenophon wrote:Just wanted to share a podcast from FiveThirtyEight's Spark series that came out. It is a conversation between Kim TallBear (author of Native American DNA: Tribal Belonging and the False Promise of Genetic Science) and 538 staff. It struck me as especially interesting given tapir's attempts to point out to McKane that his approach to genetics is racist and supremacist in nature. It is only 40 minutes (and well worth the listen) but the first 10-15 hits really hard on some of the problems within the community, particularly among amateurs.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... genealogy/


Thanks for the link. I hadn't listened to that one before. Here is another from Kim Tallbear for further reading.
_Xenophon
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Re: DNA scientists claim that Cherokees are from the Middle

Post by _Xenophon »

tapirrider wrote:Thanks for the link. I hadn't listened to that one before. Here is another from Kim Tallbear for further reading.


Excellent read, tapir. I ordered Dr. TallBear's book as soon as I had heard the podcast and after reading that paper I am certain that I made the right decision.

Although Wells is obviously a much more informed researcher on genealogy than bomgeo, there are easy parallels to draw between the narrow mindedness of their work. I think if bomgeo takes nothing away from what you posted but the following line, he would be in a much better head-space when approaching his research:

TallBear on p.13 wrote: Thus, U.S. indigenes find it difficult to tolerate the knowledge that their bodies can be named as stores for genetic miners. Many bristle when Spencer Wells asserts that “[o]ur DNA carries a story that is shared by everyone,” essentially that science has a right to the knowledge carried in indigenous DNA. Furthermore, not everyone claims that story. Spencer Wells’s message is proselytizing; it is totalizing. It leaves no room for real alternative meanings by which human beings want to and should be able to live (not unlike the message of those Christian Creationists that annoy so many scientists).


Honestly, though, he should read through the entire breakdown of the "Genographic Project" narrative to better understand how misguided his research is.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
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