palerobber wrote:from the article: Though Helen’s age on its own may seem damning, it’s only relevant if Joseph Smith and Helen actually had sex.
right, since a 37 year old man being pretend married to a 14 year old girl is totally normal and acceptable in the US.
If Joseph only 'pretend married' Helen and didn't try to make babies with her then he breached the commandment given to him by God as to the reason He would allow polygamy to be practiced.
If Joseph had sex with Helen he is damned by society. If Joseph didn't have sex with Helen he is damned by God.
It is bizarre that the apologists choose to side with society rather then their God.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
futuremissionary wrote:There's so much controversy surrounding Helen Mar Kimball, Joseph Smith's 14-year-old wife. I finally compiled an article with apologist views on the subject, specifically citing Brian C. Hales and David Keller from FAIR Blog. I especially appreciate Brian's emails back and forth with me and even offering to send his book free of charge. Thanks Brian! Here's the article, if you're interested: http://futuremissionary.com/helen-mar-k ... eph-smith/
Sorry, from a non-LDS perspective you're not even asking the right questions.
At the time and at Joseph’s age, was it normal to marry young teens? Irrelevant, since the question is, why was a married man in his 30's chasing after a 14 year old, at all? Why would a "loving" father be complicit in the sexual predation of his own daughter?
Was the relationship sexual in nature? Might Helen have been sexually mature?
This separation of marriage and sexual relations is silly, to anyone, other than it seems to a Mormon bent on explaining away Smith's actions. When has anyone in any culture married with the intention of not being sexually active?
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI
The suggestion that some of the polygamous marriages were for dynastic purposes also seems strange when you consider that dynastic relations between men were achieved by adoptions. For example, Brigham Young adopted John D. Lee, he didn't fake marry one of his wives.
palerobber wrote:from the article: Though Helen’s age on its own may seem damning, it’s only relevant if Joseph Smith and Helen actually had sex.
right, since a 37 year old man being pretend married to a 14 year old girl is totally normal and acceptable in the US.
If Joseph only 'pretend married' Helen and didn't try to make babies with her then he breached the commandment given to him by God as to the reason He would allow polygamy to be practiced.
If Joseph had sex with Helen he is damned by society. If Joseph didn't have sex with Helen he is damned by God.
It is bizarre that the apologists choose to side with society rather then their God.
i've never thought this line of thinking was quite fair -- it's possible Joseph fully intended to fulfill God's commandment with Kimball but just never got around to it. maybe he was waiting until she was older, or until Emma became more comfortable with polygamy, or until the saints had moved somewhere outside US jurisdiction, or until the after-life. there are plenty of excuses to offer God. but as for society's view, what he did with Kimball was very creepy whether they ever had sex or not.
huckelberry wrote:I am trying to imagine how far a persons mind has to be shaped by Mormon sexual repression in order to have this argument make sense. How can you forget about the emotional disaster this was for Helen and instead only worry whether Smith remains sexually pure in some legal sense? How can one ignore the kind of social manipulation this represented ? Whether there was sex is a diversionary side show question used by people to avoid looking at what kind of kingdom Mr Smith was building.
Or is it a simple Smith matters and Helen does not?
The Erotic Apologist wrote:From the article at Futuremissionary's site...
In an article titled Sexuality in Joseph Smith’s Plural Marriages, Brother Hales does provide evidence that Joseph had a sexual relationship with at least 9 of his 33 wives, but not necessarily all of them. He contends that a busy schedule as well asa vigilant, jealous wife would have kept him from participating in any sexual activity. He was always under Emma’s watchful eye. If his other wives and he were unaccounted for even for a few minutes, Emma was known to search the house as well the neighborhood.
Is it even possible to cock block your own husband?