It is currently Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:03 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:16 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 pm
Posts: 7153
Location: Betwixt & Between
It was Thomas S Monson who said you are entitled to the Lords protection whilst on His errand.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=23954442
So why does this type of thing happen?

Edited to provide a different link.

_________________
"And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine."
Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Conference October 2013


Last edited by Bazooka on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:47 pm 
tired, less active investigator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:07 am
Posts: 6058
Location: Hungary
The link above is NSFW
--- it begins a loud video without any demand
--- stopping the video caused my laptop frost (may be the fault of my opsys, but with low likelihood)

_________________
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:56 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 pm
Posts: 7153
Location: Betwixt & Between
From Fox news:


Quote:
WOODLAND, Oklahoma — A sister missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints serving in Oklahoma was killed on Friday when she was struck from behind by a truck while riding a bicycle.
Scott Trotter, senior public affairs manager for the LDS church, said in an email that Sister Alesa Renee Smith was 22 years old and from Benton, Arkansas. She was serving in the Oklahoma City Mission. Smith was riding single file on the side of the road with her companion in Woodland, Oklahoma when the accident happened.
Smith was pronounced dead at the scene. Her companion was uninjured.
Trotter said: “The entire church grieves at her passing, and we pray for her family and friends at this difficult time.”

_________________
"And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine."
Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Conference October 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:41 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:33 pm
Posts: 1059
For the same reasons anyone else dies. They have no more or less inspiration and/or protection than anyone else.

_________________
“If paying tithing means that you can’t pay for water or electricity, pay tithing. If paying tithing means that you can’t pay your rent, pay tithing. Even if paying tithing means that you don’t have enough money to feed your family, pay tithing." Ensign/2012/12


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:17 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 3771
Location: Your mother's purse
Bazooka wrote:
It was Thimas S Monson who said you are entitled to the Lords protection whilst on His errand.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=23954442
So why does this type of thing happen?

Edited to provide a different link.

As this particular topic had been discussed ad nauseaum, could you be more specific?
Particularly with details of being on "His errand" and what is considered as "Lord's protection"....and how this thread is not a feeble attempt at trying to fit a spiritual issue into a temporal concern?
...or is this just a lead into why does God let babies die?


(the obvious answer to why things like this happen is simply to test and prove your faith....not mine....but yours.......see also book of Job).

_________________
Stated simply and crassly, by law, preservation of life is foremost. Rational, reasonable, logical and emotional plays no part. I simply did my part. - bcuzbcuz

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard_Feynman


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:52 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:07 pm
Posts: 1270
Location: Victoria’s Secret Corporate Headquarters
Subgenius, where did you serve your mission?

_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I am against feminism for the very fact that I do not want to exercise unrighteous dominion over women.
--Water Dog


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:15 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 pm
Posts: 7153
Location: Betwixt & Between
subgenius wrote:
Particularly with details of being on "His errand" and what is considered as "Lord's protection"....


I don't know, Thomas S Monson wasn't specific on the clauses when he made the claim.
Perhaps you can ask him to clarify...

_________________
"And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine."
Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Conference October 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:23 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:11 pm
Posts: 6691
Location: Notre-Dame de Paris (bell tower)
I've always wondered why missionaries (usually in their early twenties) were called 'Elders'. It's known that elders (usually 70 years old and above) have a higher mortality rate than younger people.

Maybe they should be called 'Youngers'.

_________________
"Sanctuary!"
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:42 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:49 am
Posts: 4879
Location: Somewhere between bemused and curious.
Quasimodo wrote:
I've always wondered why missionaries (usually in their early twenties) were called 'Elders'. It's known that elders (usually 70 years old and above) have a higher mortality rate than younger people.

Maybe they should be called 'Youngers'.

On my mission we had a missionary whose last name was Elder so he was Elder Elder. I wonder if he had a sister who served a mission? Now that would have been confusing. Sister Elder!

_________________
"The most disturbing kind of thinking I've seen is from people who are certain. This is the kind of thinking I am trying to subvert"
Steven L. Peck


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:51 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:11 pm
Posts: 6691
Location: Notre-Dame de Paris (bell tower)
Fence Sitter wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:
I've always wondered why missionaries (usually in their early twenties) were called 'Elders'. It's known that elders (usually 70 years old and above) have a higher mortality rate than younger people.

Maybe they should be called 'Youngers'.

On my mission we had a missionary whose last name was Elder so he was Elder Elder. I wonder if he had a sister who served a mission? Now that would have been confusing. Sister Elder!


:lol:
Reminds me of the character in "Catch 22". His last name was Majors. When he was born, his father (in a moment of drunken humor) named him Major. After joining the Army Air Corp, Major Majors was promoted to Major (due to a clerical error because of his name). He was Major Major Majors.

_________________
"Sanctuary!"
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:45 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 3771
Location: Your mother's purse
Bazooka wrote:
subgenius wrote:
Particularly with details of being on "His errand" and what is considered as "Lord's protection"....


I don't know, Thomas S Monson wasn't specific on the clauses when he made the claim.
Perhaps you can ask him to clarify...

Hmmm...i sense Drifting

But why would i need to consult Monson? By the OP you seem to be confused by the while situation. Perhaps you should post the source of Monson's claim as a beginning of your understanding.

_________________
Stated simply and crassly, by law, preservation of life is foremost. Rational, reasonable, logical and emotional plays no part. I simply did my part. - bcuzbcuz

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard_Feynman


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:28 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:48 pm
Posts: 1448
Quasimodo wrote:
:lol:
Reminds me of the character in "Catch 22". His last name was Majors. When he was born, his father (in a moment of drunken humor) named him Major. After joining the Army Air Corp, Major Majors was promoted to Major (due to a clerical error because of his name). He was Major Major Majors.


i thought Heller wrote that it was because of an IBM computer with a sense of humor that he was promoted to Major.

one thing i remember for sure, the guy's middle name was Major too.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:00 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 pm
Posts: 7153
Location: Betwixt & Between
subgenius wrote:
But why would i need to consult Monson? By the OP you seem to be confused by the while situation. Perhaps you should post the source of Monson's claim as a beginning of your understanding.



Quote:
As bearers of the priesthood, we have been placed on earth in troubled times. We live in a complex world with currents of conflict everywhere to be found. Political machinations ruin the stability of nations, despots grasp for power, and segments of society seem forever downtrodden, deprived of opportunity, and left with a feeling of failure.

We who have been ordained to the priesthood of God can make a difference. When we qualify for the help of the Lord, we can build boys, we can mend men, we can accomplish miracles in His holy service. Our opportunities are without limit.

Ours is the task to be fitting examples. We are strengthened by the truth that the greatest force in the world today is the power of God as it works through man. If we are on the Lord’s errand, brethren, we are entitled to the Lord’s help. Never forget that truth. That divine help, of course, is predicated upon our worthiness. Each must ask: Are my hands clean? Is my heart pure? Am I a worthy servant of the Lord?

( Source: General Conference, April 2008 )


One assumes that although he was addressing Priesthood holding men, the Lord's help would be equally available to women serving a mission. Don't you think?

_________________
"And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine."
Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Conference October 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:29 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:07 pm
Posts: 1270
Location: Victoria’s Secret Corporate Headquarters
Bazooka wrote:
It was Thimas S Monson who said you are entitled to the Lords protection whilst on His errand.

It might help if we think of the death of a missionary as more like a transfer to the Spirit Prison Mission. :twisted:

_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I am against feminism for the very fact that I do not want to exercise unrighteous dominion over women.
--Water Dog


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:27 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 3771
Location: Your mother's purse
Bazooka wrote:
Quote:
That divine help, of course, is predicated upon our worthiness. Each must ask: Are my hands clean? Is my heart pure? Am I a worthy servant of the Lord?

( Source: General Conference, April 2008 )


One assumes that although he was addressing Priesthood holding men, the Lord's help would be equally available to women serving a mission. Don't you think?

What i think is that - as was discussed before when you posted about the elder hit by a car in Brazil -you avoid, disregard, and deny three above snip from your reference.

_________________
Stated simply and crassly, by law, preservation of life is foremost. Rational, reasonable, logical and emotional plays no part. I simply did my part. - bcuzbcuz

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard_Feynman


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:10 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:07 pm
Posts: 1270
Location: Victoria’s Secret Corporate Headquarters
Subgenius, where did you serve your mission?

_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I am against feminism for the very fact that I do not want to exercise unrighteous dominion over women.
--Water Dog


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:13 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 pm
Posts: 7153
Location: Betwixt & Between
subgenius wrote:
Quote:
That divine help, of course, is predicated upon our worthiness. Each must ask: Are my hands clean? Is my heart pure? Am I a worthy servant of the Lord?

( Source: General Conference, April 2008 )


What i think is that - as was discussed before when you posted about the elder hit by a car in Brazil -you avoid, disregard, and deny three above snip from your reference.


Are you suggesting that the Lord's help was withdrawn from this female missionary for some lack of worthiness reason, hence why she died and her companion didn't?

_________________
"And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine."
Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Conference October 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:49 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 pm
Posts: 7153
Location: Betwixt & Between
subgenius wrote:
Quote:
That divine help, of course, is predicated upon our worthiness. Each must ask: Are my hands clean? Is my heart pure? Am I a worthy servant of the Lord?

( Source: General Conference, April 2008 )


What i think is that - as was discussed before when you posted about the elder hit by a car in Brazil -you avoid, disregard, and deny three above snip from your reference.


Quote:
Are you suggesting that the Lord's help was withdrawn from this female missionary for some lack of worthiness reason, hence why she died and her companion didn't?


Bumping so that subgenius can jump into the hole he dug...

_________________
"And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine."
Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Conference October 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:55 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 3771
Location: Your mother's purse
Bazooka wrote:
Are you suggesting that the Lord's help was withdrawn from this female missionary for some lack of worthiness reason, hence why she died and her companion didn't?

actually i was suggesting that the "reason" she died i unknown to you, likely forever unknown.
Obviously, by the TSM quote you so often reference...this protection is conditional. If we wanted to lower our intellect to your level of reasoning and assumption, then yes, it would appropriate to validate TSM's statement by affirming that she must have died to a worthiness issue or due to her not being on the Lord's errand at that moment.
Regardless, it is a fallacy to assume that either one of us know the reason for her death, just as it is a fallacy to assume that her death was not, in fact, a protection - perhaps she was removed from this life to spare a suffering yet to be realized, thus her death protected her - especially if your emphasis is not temporal - an emphasis that most of your arguments rely on.......though you have changed your screen-name your cynicism endures....por que?

_________________
Stated simply and crassly, by law, preservation of life is foremost. Rational, reasonable, logical and emotional plays no part. I simply did my part. - bcuzbcuz

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard_Feynman


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:07 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 pm
Posts: 7153
Location: Betwixt & Between
subgenius wrote:
Bazooka wrote:
Are you suggesting that the Lord's help was withdrawn from this female missionary for some lack of worthiness reason, hence why she died and her companion didn't?

actually i was suggesting that the "reason" she died i unknown to you, likely forever unknown.
Obviously, by the TSM quote you so often reference...this protection is conditional. If we wanted to lower our intellect to your level of reasoning and assumption, then yes, it would appropriate to validate TSM's statement by affirming that she must have died to a worthiness issue or due to her not being on the Lord's errand at that moment.
Regardless, it is a fallacy to assume that either one of us know the reason for her death, just as it is a fallacy to assume that her death was not, in fact, a protection - perhaps she was removed from this life to spare a suffering yet to be realized, thus her death protected her - especially if your emphasis is not temporal - an emphasis that most of your arguments rely on.......though you have changed your screen-name your cynicism endures....por que?


Interesting that you consider being run over by a truck akin to receiving the Lord's protection.

_________________
"And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine."
Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Conference October 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do missionaries die on their mission?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:10 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:03 pm
Posts: 2367
Fence Sitter wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:
I've always wondered why missionaries (usually in their early twenties) were called 'Elders'. It's known that elders (usually 70 years old and above) have a higher mortality rate than younger people.

Maybe they should be called 'Youngers'.

On my mission we had a missionary whose last name was Elder so he was Elder Elder. I wonder if he had a sister who served a mission? Now that would have been confusing. Sister Elder!


A family member of mine served in an area that had something like 10 Mormons in a branch. None of the ten people had any musical talent/abilities, so they used a boom box with CDs for the music in sacrament meeting. They named the boom box, "Sister Sony".

_________________
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group