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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:15 am 
First Presidency
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krose wrote:
Well, I don't get it. Why is "American pluralism" something Europeans (or I, for that matter) should care about?


I would think the only time it would be necessary to care about it is when you are personally responsible to deal with Europeans about an issue which is important to many Americans; while knowing ahead of time the Europeans have pretty much made up their minds to disagree with you.

Quote:
Sure, I understand your point about people in the older countries looking down their noses at the uncouth, uncultured Americans. I'm not sure it's true; it hasn't been my experience when spending time over there. But I get it.

What I don't get is the bit about "pluralism" in the quote.


Actually, I think you made a pretty good interpretation of the quote when you first posed your question to me. Our pluralism is something they can't identify with; especially for the very reason they are becoming more and more secular. Since they already see us as the wayward children, Otterson has to get past this hurdle in order to establish credibility in the minds of the Europeans.

Blessings,

jo


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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:28 am 
tired, less active investigator
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Quasimodo wrote:
I've never seen a Hungarian wine for sale around here (Southern California).
Apparently You are living in one of unlucky corner of the world.

Quasimodo wrote:
I would love to try one or two. Do you have a favorite that I should look for?
There are a lot.

One of them is "egri bikavér" (=bull's blood of Eger).
Image

Eger (Hungarian pronunciation: [ˈɛɡɛr]; German: Erlau; Turkish: Eğri ) is the second largest city in Northern Hungary, the county seat of Heves, east of the Mátra Mountains. Eger is best known for its castle, thermal baths, historic buildings (including the northernmost Turkish minaret), and red and white wines.

Image The vineyard where Egri Bikavér is produced

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:16 am 
Bell Ringer
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ludwigm wrote:
Apparently You are living in one of unlucky corner of the world.
Maybe. There are a lot of wineries here producing some excellent wines. Not to mention the beaches, mountains and the perfect climate.


ludwigm wrote:
One of them is "egri bikavér" (=bull's blood of Eger).
Image

Eger (Hungarian pronunciation: [ˈɛɡɛr]; German: Erlau; Turkish: Eğri ) is the second largest city in Northern Hungary, the county seat of Heves, east of the Mátra Mountains. Eger is best known for its castle, thermal baths, historic buildings (including the northernmost Turkish minaret), and red and white wines.

Image The vineyard where Egri Bikavér is produced


Great. Thanks! I'll try to hunt that one down (or some similar Hungarian wine). There are some stores around that pride themselves on having wines from everywhere. I'll do some shopping.

Of course, it's now up to you to find a good California Central Coast wine and give it a try. I'm expecting you to report back. :biggrin:

http://www.jlohr.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:42 am 
God

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Quasi, I see you may be salvageable...

Why don't you and Ludders try and get your hands on a Barolo (Italian) from 2009 or earlier. Serve at slightly warmer than room temperature with either red meat, a good book, jazz or all three...

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Drifting wrote:
Quasi, I see you may be salvageable...

Why don't you and Ludders try and get your hands on a Barolo (Italian) from 2009 or earlier. Serve at slightly warmer than room temperature with either red meat, a good book, jazz or all three...

Thanks, Drifting! It's comforting to know that I am not beyond redemption. :biggrin:

I have had more than a few excellent Barolos (don't think I've ever had a bad one). They are growing a lot of Nebbiolo grapes in California now. Some pretty good wines. Oddly, I have a vine of Nebbiolo growing in my back yard. I bought it as a twig from a local winery on a whim and it has just taken off. Never made wine from it, but the grapes are sweet and wonderful to eat if you don't mind spitting out the seeds.

My favorite pairing to a great wine is great company.

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:18 pm 
God

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Quasimodo wrote:
Drifting wrote:
Quasi, I see you may be salvageable...

Why don't you and Ludders try and get your hands on a Barolo (Italian) from 2009 or earlier. Serve at slightly warmer than room temperature with either red meat, a good book, jazz or all three...

Thanks, Drifting! It's comforting to know that I am not beyond redemption. :biggrin:

I have had more than a few excellent Barolos (don't think I've ever had a bad one). They are growing a lot of Nebbiolo grapes in California now. Some pretty good wines. Oddly, I have a vine of Nebbiolo growing in my back yard. I bought it as a twig from a local winery on a whim and it has just taken off. Never made wine from it, but the grapes are sweet and wonderful to eat if you don't mind spitting out the seeds.

My favorite pairing to a great wine is great company.


I concur, good wine and good humour is a marriage made in...well...California now it seems...

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Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:47 pm 
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Drifting wrote:
Jo

Otterson was speaking in his official capacity of Chief Spokesman for the Church. Ergo, he was speaking about Mormonism when he stated Europeans don't understand American Pluralism etc.


OK, I'll bite. What is "pluralism"? and do they sell an American type? Is it the ability to hold two contradictory opinions at the same time?

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:49 pm 
God
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Quasimodo wrote:
Drifting wrote:
Quasi, I see you may be salvageable...

Why don't you and Ludders try and get your hands on a Barolo (Italian) from 2009 or earlier. Serve at slightly warmer than room temperature with either red meat, a good book, jazz or all three...

Thanks, Drifting! It's comforting to know that I am not beyond redemption. :biggrin:

I have had more than a few excellent Barolos (don't think I've ever had a bad one). They are growing a lot of Nebbiolo grapes in California now. Some pretty good wines. Oddly, I have a vine of Nebbiolo growing in my back yard. I bought it as a twig from a local winery on a whim and it has just taken off. Never made wine from it, but the grapes are sweet and wonderful to eat if you don't mind spitting out the seeds.

My favorite pairing to a great wine is great company.



I perfer Chilean wines though I am going to try to find a Hungarian wine. Might be hard to find in my neck of the woods.

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:25 pm 
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son of Ishmael wrote:

I perfer Chilean wines though I am going to try to find a Hungarian wine. Might be hard to find in my neck of the woods.


Chilean wines are great! Argentina has some good ones. New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Hungary (can't leave out Hungary or ludwigm will be onto me about it) all have great wines. It's hard to pick a country. In the past twenty years there has been an explosion of good wine from all over. Just more great wine to taste.

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:31 pm 
God
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Quasimodo wrote:
son of Ishmael wrote:

I perfer Chilean wines though I am going to try to find a Hungarian wine. Might be hard to find in my neck of the woods.


Chilean wines are great! Argentina has some good ones. New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Hungary (can't leave out Hungary or ludwigm will be onto me about it) all have great wines. It's hard to pick a country. In the past twenty years there has been an explosion of good wine from all over. Just more great wine to taste.



I joined a local wine club and once a month they package a bottle of red and a bottle of white together for us to try out. We get a little print out that talks about the wine and where it comes from etc. Lots of fun.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits


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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:55 pm 
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son of Ishmael wrote:

I joined a local wine club and once a month they package a bottle of red and a bottle of white together for us to try out. We get a little print out that talks about the wine and where it comes from etc. Lots of fun.


That sounds great, Ish. Something to look forward to in the mail besides bills.

When I first started getting serious about wine a friend of mine (really knew his wines) suggested that if I wanted to develop a good palate for wine I should only drink one type of red varietal from different wineries for a while. He suggested Zinfandel (red, not the sweet, pink stuff).

I did that for about six months and it really did give me an appreciation of what was good and what was not so good.

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:03 pm 
God
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Quasimodo wrote:
son of Ishmael wrote:

I joined a local wine club and once a month they package a bottle of red and a bottle of white together for us to try out. We get a little print out that talks about the wine and where it comes from etc. Lots of fun.


That sounds great, Ish. Something to look forward to in the mail besides bills.

When I first started getting serious about wine a friend of mine (really knew his wines) suggested that if I wanted to develop a good palate for wine I should only drink one type of red varietal from different wineries for a while. He suggested Zinfandel (red, not the sweet, pink stuff).

I did that for about six months and it really did give me an appreciation of what was good and what was not so good.



That is a good Idea. I have been bouncing all over the place. Maybe I should try that.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits


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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:11 pm 
tired, less active investigator
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Quasimodo wrote:
(can't leave out Hungary or ludwigm will be onto me about it)



- Waiter! Two bottle of wine! A good one and another of any bad type.
- ???
- The another to fight with the bottle!



BTW poor TBMs... These comments are Chinese for them.
As virgins sitting in sexology class...

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:43 pm 
God

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bcuzbcuz wrote:
Drifting wrote:
Jo

Otterson was speaking in his official capacity of Chief Spokesman for the Church. Ergo, he was speaking about Mormonism when he stated Europeans don't understand American Pluralism etc.


OK, I'll bite. What is "pluralism"? and do they sell an American type? Is it the ability to hold two contradictory opinions at the same time?


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralism

I think Otterson was using in the context of why he thought Europeans weren't bright enough to understand Mormonism as part of Americas religious tapestry.

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Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:50 am 
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Drifting wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralism

I think Otterson was using in the context of why he thought Europeans weren't bright enough to understand Mormonism as part of Americas religious tapestry.


My wife says pluralism and polygamy are the same thing. "So don't come into our house talking about "pluralism" and think you're not going to end up sleeping on the sofa!" she said.

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:28 pm 
God
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ludwigm wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:
I've never seen a Hungarian wine for sale around here (Southern California).
Apparently You are living in one of unlucky corner of the world.

Quasimodo wrote:
I would love to try one or two. Do you have a favorite that I should look for?
There are a lot.

One of them is "egri bikavér" (=bull's blood of Eger).
Image

Eger (Hungarian pronunciation: [ˈɛɡɛr]; German: Erlau; Turkish: Eğri ) is the second largest city in Northern Hungary, the county seat of Heves, east of the Mátra Mountains. Eger is best known for its castle, thermal baths, historic buildings (including the northernmost Turkish minaret), and red and white wines.

Image The vineyard where Egri Bikavér is produced


I looked all around my area this weekend and could not find this wine. I guess you are going to have to send us each a bottle so we can check it out

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits


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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:53 pm 
God
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son of Ishmael wrote:
I looked all around my area this weekend and could not find this wine. I guess you are going to have to send us each a bottle so we can check it out

(Giving up and going with the wine derail...)

I'm not sure what it says about you that you want to try something called "bull's blood," although I do admit to drinking a bottle of "Vampire" brand wine that I once won at a Halloween party.

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:06 pm 
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krose wrote:

I'm not sure what it says about you that you want to try something called "bull's blood," although I do admit to drinking a bottle of "Vampire" brand wine that I once won at a Halloween party.


Hey, sacramental wine is supposed to be considered the blood of Christ. Bulls blood seems tame by comparison. I doubt there is actually any bovine blood in it (at least I hope not).

I still haven't found any either. The search goes on...

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:11 pm 
God
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After browsing through two pages of masturbatory amateur wine discussions, surely the thread is dead by now......?

Image

and once again....the answer to the OP.....yes, generally, they are.

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:17 pm 
tired, less active investigator
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subgenius wrote:
... two pages of ... wine discussions ...

Are You envious? Because it is not forbidden for us?

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 Post subject: Re: Are Europeans too smug, condescending and secular...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:22 pm 
God
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subgenius wrote:
After browsing through two pages of masturbatory amateur wine discussions, surely the thread is dead by now......?

Image

and once again....the answer to the OP.....yes, generally, they are.




If a few people want to keep it alive...what do you care?

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits


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