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 Post subject: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:32 pm 
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Ever wonder about the possibility of time travel? I have.

Since we haven't actually been able to transport ourselves into the past or future yet, I've wondered about the possibility of other dimensions of time that may co-exist with us, in sort of parallel universes or worlds.

Although I'm no scientist, it was Einstein who believed that the past, present, and future is omnipresent.

As a child no more than 10 or 11, I woke up one night to the sound of footsteps walking around my room and the foot of my bed was being traversed by some kind of spirit visitors. I looked up into the hall light that I left on at night for a night light to reassure me - and there was a large woman blocking the light from the hallway, standing in my doorway, dressed in full pioneer clothing. She had her hair in braids pinned up on her head, and was staring at me intently.

Frightened, I shut my eyes hoping she would go away. As soon as I closed my eyes I felt her touching my hair and my braid I'd worn to bed that night.

After some long moments of some spirit like entities playing in my room, in the dark of night, suddenly the room was quiet again, and the pioneer lady was gone with the rest of them. I heard a kind of whooshing sound, like they were gathering together in the middle of the room, and then they were gone. Whoever "they" were.

I had never seen that woman before. However, years later after my dad had sent me an autobiography of his father, there was a photo in his biography of my great grandmother in her later years. She was born, lived and died a pioneer Mormon lady. And I was looking at a picture of the woman who visited me in my room during the night, as a child. Even her hair she wore the same. The clothing was how she used to dress.

Our house was an old farmhouse in Ammon, Idaho. My grandfather had bought it for our family and transferred the note to my parents after we moved in. I used to believe our farmhouse was haunted, and had several 'hauntings' while we lived there.

But that was the only time I saw that pioneer woman and heard footsteps and spirits playing, was that one night when she stared back at me making eye contact, then touched my hair softly to maybe connect with me. If she was my great grandmother, then she was somehow capable of time travel to the future (1969.) She passed away in 1951.

Her first husband, and my great grandfather, had died rather young at age 54 in 1889. He was 31 years older than Great Grandma was. He fought in the Civil War, and had been a personal messenger for General Sherman, and a chief scout (spy) for Allen Pinkerton.

Thankfully I did not see him with my great grandmother. I didn't even know about his history until the past 2-3 years, from doing family research. If he's time traveling with my great grandmother, I wonder how they do it, and where they are able to go?

Instead of my going to the past, somehow great grandma was able to transport herself to the future and meet me, her great granddaughter.

Speaking of which, this past spring I traveled on vacation to visit the cemetery where my great grandpa had been buried to place flowers. When I got there I discovered he and his baby daughter were buried in unmarked graves. Since 1889. My summer project was getting a tombstone where he's buried to honor his memory and legacy. He's in a Mormon pioneer cemetery in Idaho, with generations of his grandchildren, great and gggrandchildren living all around him. And yet it was a Jewish great granddaughter, living thousands of miles away, who finally gave him the dignity of a tombstone. How's that for serendipity?

Maybe great grandma traveled far enough into the future to meet me, knowing what I would do in my future. He was the first and great love of her life.

And that is no tall tale!


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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:38 pm 
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You have a great imagination, AmyJo.

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:06 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
You have a great imagination, AmyJo.


Well I didn't make any of this up. Why do you dismiss the paranormal experiences of others as being their imagination?

I can't speak for others. But I know from my own experience this event of mine took place.

As for my great grandmother's pictures matching the pioneer woman who appeared to me as a child, that's something I didn't make up either. It came as a startling revelation to me that she was the same person I saw as a child. I hadn't seen a photograph of her until I was well into my 30's.

My great grandpa really fought and served in the Civil War, and I was really there this past spring where he's buried. And I actually was able to order him a tombstone where there was none before.

I don't understand the minds of atheists. Just because you don't believe in something outside the realm of science or what's in front of your face for "proof," doesn't mean someone else doesn't have paranormal experiences. So you dismiss them outright as their imagination.

Well it wasn't, and for you to do that is both demeaning and insulting to my intelligence.

I posted this in the Celestial Forum, just so it would be exempt from all the name calling and insults of the Terrestrial. Looks like it just doesn't keep some of you atheists from demeaning those of us who believe in life after death and the spirit world. You'll find something to demean regardless of our personal beliefs and our experiences.

I'm not attacking your beliefs, unless you attack mine first.

As for time travel, that's as real a possibility as she was a ghostly visitor. She was in pioneer clothing. Not just some spirit in angel clothing.

Einstein found time travel very possible. It's just outside our human understanding at this point in our knowledge. I personally don't have a problem with it. I'd just like to know how it works.


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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:17 pm 
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I've been reading recently about a woman who claimed to have a Venusian's baby.

Do I think that she actually had the experience or that she had a powerful imagination? I remained skeptical.

If that is an "attack" on you to say that, you really need to consider why you're so defensive and paranoid. You're welcome to your stories and your beliefs. You aren't entitled to expect us to accept them as the truth as the truth without evidence. And it has nothing to do with "atheism", so please keep your anti-atheist biases out of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:22 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
I've been reading recently about a woman who claimed to have a Venusian's baby.

Do I think that she actually had the experience or that she had a powerful imagination? I remained skeptical.

If that is an "attack" on you to say that, you really need to consider why you're so defensive and paranoid. You're welcome to your stories and your beliefs. You aren't entitled to expect us to accept them as the truth as the truth without evidence. And it has nothing to do with "atheism", so please keep your anti-atheist biases out of it.


You're an atheist.

I'm not an atheist. This is a Mormon discussion board, not an atheist board. I don't understand why you are so antagonistic towards the experiences of others, and openly criticize us for sharing our spiritual experiences as "non-events" because I don't have solid proof it happened.

I don't need solid proof. This isn't a science board. It's a religious board. And I own my experiences, I don't need to defend them as some sort of gospel doctrine. They happened. I share what I consider to be mystical events, not a science experiment.

If you don't want to discuss politely, then refrain from making personal attacks and slander.

I did not imagine what happened to me as a young girl.

As for someone blogging about having a Venusian baby. That's a claim I would find preposterous, but I wouldn't attack the person making it. I would ignore it.

My experience was a paranormal one involving my great grandmother. Not remotely the same.


Last edited by AmyJo on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:23 pm 
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Adieu in the Book of Mormon (plus time travelin')

A recent publication by the Claremont Colleges Mormon Studies program has revealed some spectacular information regarding the use of the French word Adieu (meaning farewell) in the Book of Mormon. For a long time, there was a series of nervous explanations for this word occurrence in the book. That changed when an unnamed BYU doctoral candidate in physical chemistry went on a religious sabbatical and found herself making a full spectral analysis of the soil from both Hill Cumorah and the Joseph Smith cabin in Palmyra, New York.

This analysis discovered unexplained traces of carbon-60 and an off-the-scale reading of nocturnal emissions. Once back at BYU, the student relayed the information to the head of the Chemistry Department. The administrator then dispatched a male student to reconfirm the work, making sure it was done properly and under the steady hand of the Priesthood. The male student confirmed these findings to the letter.

There was some quandary about what to make of these findings, so the Department Head called in Elberta Swinburne, a famed psychic from the Payson Chapter of the John Birch Society and co-chair of the Utah County Eagle Forum. Elberta was dispatched to the exact site of the soil extraction with the strongest emission readings, and immediately had a tent set up over the site.

Sister Elberta Swinburne worked tirelessly for three days and nights in the tent. Every morning after her daily walk, she would sit at a table and place her face in a wind bonnet containing a stone she had found at Joe's Valley Reservoir in Emery County back in 1986. After the first day, she had glimpsed a clue. She spiritually viewed a business card with the name Henri Chatelain that listed his occupation in an unknown language as a Voyageur du temps. The crew immediately called the BYU Chemistry department. The Chemistry head contacted the BYU Languages department, and after some discussion on turf protocol and professional courtesy, the Language department set their very best linguists to work on this translation. Without much difficulty, they determined the strange writing to mean Time Traveler.

Armed with this information, Sister Elberta Swinburne was able to solve the puzzle on the third day. It turned out that Henri Chatelain, a French Time Traveler from the year 2547 had journeyed back in time and had become acquaintances with Father Abraham. Apparently, Father Abraham held on to the particular word "Adieu" when Henri had bid him farewell. Subsequently, Henri Chatelain visited the Royal Bible Commission chartered by King James to provide the Isaiah material he had obtained from Nephi Lehison of Mesoamerica. He also visited with Christopher Columbus to explain mid-Atlantic winds and currents, and Thomas Jefferson so he could learn the proper wording and invocation to make the Constitution divinely inspired. Finally, he visited with world renowned LDS painter Jon McNaughton to offer some topical suggestions.

The BYU Department of Chemistry was now faced with an incredible dilemma. They had uncovered a monumental piece of information in Mormon history but had done so based on the help of Elberta Swinburne who had never attended college. To release information garnered from such a source would undoubtedly damage their reputation in the eyes of other academics. So what to do?

In consultation with the Administration of the Brigham Young University, they decided to release these findings to the Mormon Studies Program at Claremont College, enabling Dr. Patrick Q. Mason to win the 2018 Grand Prize Award from the Mormon History Association.

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:26 pm 
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AmyJo wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
I've been reading recently about a woman who claimed to have a Venusian's baby.

Do I think that she actually had the experience or that she had a powerful imagination? I remained skeptical.

If that is an "attack" on you to say that, you really need to consider why you're so defensive and paranoid. You're welcome to your stories and your beliefs. You aren't entitled to expect us to accept them as the truth as the truth without evidence. And it has nothing to do with "atheism", so please keep your anti-atheist biases out of it.


You're an atheist.

I'm not an atheist. This is a Mormon discussion board, not an atheist board. I don't understand why you are so antagonistic towards the experiences of others, and openly criticize us for sharing our spiritual experiences as "non-events" because I don't have solid proof it happened.

I don't need solid proof. This isn't a science board. It's a religious board. And I own my experiences, I don't need to defend them as some sort of gospel doctrine. They happened. I share what I consider to be mystical events, not a science experiment.

If you don't want to discuss politely, then refrain from making personal attacks and slander.

I did not imagine what happened to me as a young girl.


Show me my "personal attacks and slander". There's your imagination for you.

I'm an agnostic. But even if I were a Deist I would consider your accounts unconvincing. You seem unduly defensive, even hostile when challenged. Not someone confident in their experiences. I am advising you that you can expect that many people would find your stories questionable, not just me. There are many people in the world claiming paranormal experiences. Many are frauds, many others are delusional. It's probably been that way for a long time. I don't know you and have nothing personal for or against you. So I measure your statements the way that I would those of others. And that's where I end up.

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:40 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
AmyJo wrote:

You're an atheist.

I'm not an atheist. This is a Mormon discussion board, not an atheist board. I don't understand why you are so antagonistic towards the experiences of others, and openly criticize us for sharing our spiritual experiences as "non-events" because I don't have solid proof it happened.

I don't need solid proof. This isn't a science board. It's a religious board. And I own my experiences, I don't need to defend them as some sort of gospel doctrine. They happened. I share what I consider to be mystical events, not a science experiment.

If you don't want to discuss politely, then refrain from making personal attacks and slander.

I did not imagine what happened to me as a young girl.


Show me my "personal attacks and slander". There's your imagination for you.

I'm an agnostic. But even if I were a Deist I would consider your accounts unconvincing. You seem unduly defensive, even hostile when challenged. Not someone confident in their experiences. I am advising you that you can expect that many people would find your stories questionable, not just me. There are many people in the world claiming paranormal experiences. Many are frauds, many others are delusional. It's probably been that way for a long time. I don't know you and have nothing personal for or against you. So I measure your statements the way that I would those of others. And that's where I end up.


I really don't care whether you believe what I said happened to be true or not. Point of fact is it wasn't my imagination that caused me to experience what I did and when I did as a young girl. I know the difference between a dream and what occurred while I was wide awake.

I've also had other paranormal experiences occur, divine intercession at least several times that I know of, and I've seen spirits of loved ones. I've had messages from my deceased parents and other family members. With my personal experiences I've been led to conclude that we're not alone on this planet, and the fact my great grandmother appeared to me when I was a girl from the other side, dressed in pioneer clothing, is still a mystery to me.

If she were in heaven she wouldn't have been dressed as a pioneer woman. Either she's a ghost trapped in a time warp, or she was time traveling.

I honestly don't know which it was. But it was real, whatever the reason for her manifesting to me like she did, and when she did.

It has made me wonder why she was reaching out other than to pay a visit. If she needed to see me and was on some kind of a mission, maybe I'll know more when I cross over to the other side.

I'm open to the mysterious. I don't judge myself, or chalk it up to my imagination. I know what I know, and leave the rest to God and the mystery.

Time travel is known among physicists to be real enough. They haven't yet learned the keys to the mystery of time travel. But they know it exists.


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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:53 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
AmyJo wrote:

You're an atheist.

I'm not an atheist. This is a Mormon discussion board, not an atheist board. I don't understand why you are so antagonistic towards the experiences of others, and openly criticize us for sharing our spiritual experiences as "non-events" because I don't have solid proof it happened.

I don't need solid proof. This isn't a science board. It's a religious board. And I own my experiences, I don't need to defend them as some sort of gospel doctrine. They happened. I share what I consider to be mystical events, not a science experiment.

If you don't want to discuss politely, then refrain from making personal attacks and slander.

I did not imagine what happened to me as a young girl.


Show me my "personal attacks and slander". There's your imagination for you.

I'm an agnostic. But even if I were a Deist I would consider your accounts unconvincing. You seem unduly defensive, even hostile when challenged. Not someone confident in their experiences. I am advising you that you can expect that many people would find your stories questionable, not just me. There are many people in the world claiming paranormal experiences. Many are frauds, many others are delusional. It's probably been that way for a long time. I don't know you and have nothing personal for or against you. So I measure your statements the way that I would those of others. And that's where I end up.


My experiences are every bit as real to me as yours are to you. Who the hell are you to tell me my great grandmother visiting me as a child from the other side is only my imagination because you can't comprehend there are different dimensions besides our own?

You accuse me wrongly of being defensive without cause. You are the one accusing me of being an over imaginative delusional person. And because I find that reprehensible, well it surprises me you don't get that is both insulting and a personal attack against me.

And comparing what I shared to some woman who claims to have had a Venusian baby, well I find that preposterous. Not only her claim, but that you would stoop that low to make such a comparison at all. Comparing what I shared of my personal experience with a long deceased ancestor versus someone claiming to have an alien baby is a distortion of anything I shared, and purely derogatory of you to even make such a comparison. Whether you believe in the spirit world, time travel, or not.

Don't twist it around and make me look like I'm the one being defensive, when you are the one on the attack! What you accused me of is both an attack and personal.

I'm constantly surprised at the atheists and agnostics on ex-Mormon boards who attack anyone's personal beliefs and paranormal experiences as preposterous, just because you haven't experienced such yourself or lack faith convictions.

Some of us were able to leave Mormonism without losing our faith convictions, and without losing our awareness of the supernatural. It has always existed. Just because Joseph Smith was a fraud, I get that some ex-Mormons dismiss any faith claims as made up. But there are still some of us who accept that there is more than this, and I for one have had personal witness to that.

As I stated before, my paranormal experiences are every bit as real to me as breathing, and as your reality is to you. I don't disrespect others or disparage their personal accounts of their own life histories. I honestly don't know what is so ego gratifying for you to do that to others. I'm not claiming to be someone I'm not. Or selling a phony religion. I'm just sharing from my heart and life experiences.

Why you cannot respect that is a bigger mystery than my having been visited by travelers from other times and places. I'm not asking for your affirmation. Just respect of someone else's experiences different from your own. If you don't have something kind to say, why say anything at all?


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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:37 am 
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AmyJo wrote:

You accuse me wrongly of being defensive without cause. You are the one accusing me of being an over imaginative delusional person. And because I find that reprehensible, well it surprises me you don't get that is both insulting and a personal attack against me.

And comparing what I shared to some woman who claims to have had a Venusian baby, well I find that preposterous. Not only her claim, but that you would stoop that low to make such a comparison at all. Comparing what I shared of my personal experience with a long deceased ancestor versus someone claiming to have an alien baby is a distortion of anything I shared, and purely derogatory of you to even make such a comparison. Whether you believe in the spirit world, time travel, or not.

Don't twist it around and make me look like I'm the one being defensive, when you are the one on the attack! What you accused me of is both an attack and personal.

I'm constantly surprised at the atheists and agnostics on ex-Mormon boards who attack anyone's personal beliefs and paranormal experiences as preposterous, just because you haven't experienced such yourself or lack faith convictions.

Some of us were able to leave Mormonism without losing our faith convictions, and without losing our awareness of the supernatural. It has always existed. Just because Joseph Smith was a fraud, I get that some ex-Mormons dismiss any faith claims as made up. But there are still some of us who accept that there is more than this, and I for one have had personal witness to that.

As I stated before, my paranormal experiences are every bit as real to me as breathing, and as your reality is to you. I don't disrespect others or disparage their personal accounts of their own life histories. I honestly don't know what is so ego gratifying for you to do that to others. I'm not claiming to be someone I'm not. Or selling a phony religion. I'm just sharing from my heart and life experiences.

Why you cannot respect that is a bigger mystery than my having been visited by travelers from other times and places. I'm not asking for your affirmation. Just respect of someone else's experiences different from your own. If you don't have something kind to say, why say anything at all?


Pointing out error is a kindness in itself. A mature individual can recognize that.

You can rage at me and at others like me who question what you claim are real experiences of ghosts and time travel. Our right to question is not in your hands. Our right to disagree isn't either.

I have treated you with patience and consideration. That you respond with anger and accusations isn't in your favor. You consider stories of Venusians ridiculous but not time travelers and ghosts. So you're cherry picking your paranormalism. So what is it, ghosts are okay but aliens not? Time travelers okay but not Mormon angels?

I'm afraid I can't accord "paranormalism" the status of a belief system. It doesn't rise to that standard. For the most part it is an entertainment industry based heavily on fraud and ignorance. Questioning pseudoscience or anomalous experiences is not bigotry against a religion or a philosophy. It's trying to understand what is going on. That isn't just "science", it's something people do routinely to avoid errors in their daily lives.

You can insist that I can't possibly know your experiences. That's true to a point. If you tell me that your experience was about flapping your arms and flying to the moon, I know that it's impossible no matter how upset you get about my skepticism. No matter how you scream, plead or cry. And if you respect your audience you would not expect them to make that leap for you with so little basis.

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:49 am 
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Maksutov wrote:

Pointing out error is a kindness in itself. A mature individual can recognize that.

You can rage at me and at others like me who question what you claim are real experiences of ghosts and time travel. Our right to question is not in your hands. Our right to disagree isn't either.

I have treated you with patience and consideration. That you respond with anger and accusations isn't in your favor. You consider stories of Venusians ridiculous but not time travelers and ghosts. So you're cherry picking your paranormalism. So what is it, ghosts are okay but aliens not? Time travelers okay but not Mormon angels?

I'm afraid I can't accord "paranormalism" the status of a belief system. It doesn't rise to that standard. For the most part it is an entertainment industry based heavily on fraud and ignorance. Questioning pseudoscience or anomalous experiences is not bigotry against a religion or a philosophy. It's trying to understand what is going on. That isn't just "science", it's something people do routinely to avoid errors in their daily lives.

You can insist that I can't possibly know your experiences. That's true to a point. If you tell me that your experience was about flapping your arms and flying to the moon, I know that it's impossible no matter how upset you get about my skepticism. No matter how you scream, plead or cry. And if you respect your audience you would not expect them to make that leap for you with so little basis.


Accusing someone of being delusional and it's all in my imagination is not treating someone with patience or consideration. It's rude, demeaning, and disrespectful no matter what you believe or don't believe.

Since you dismiss any paranormal experiences as delusional and therefore they're all the same to you whether it's a vinusian baby someone claims to have given birth to, or my own cognitive experience of seeing an ancestor visit me as a child, then I feel sorry for you that you're a disrespectful and arrogant prig who doesn't know the difference between the two.

You obviously have no faith in God or in angels, or the spirit world. I feel sorry for you you have to disrespect and demean others to feel better about yourself.

If you're so sure of your beliefs, why attack mine?

I could care less what you believe in. But I don't chase your posts telling you why you're wrong, or that you are delusional.

Out of my family of all brothers I was the only one in my family that had paranormal experiences. My mother used to call me her most spiritual child. My Mormon grandmother had many spiritual experiences and so has many of my ancestors. It was my Mormon grandmother's late mother who appeared to me as a young girl.

I don't need your validation to affirm what I've seen or the things that have happened to me.
You can wail away as you choose, but it only makes you smaller by comparison to insult me because I shared some of my spiritual experiences here, on a "Mormon Discussion" board. Not to be attacked by the likes of you.

I'm not an agnostic or an atheist. Nor am I looking to be de-converted to your non-belief. Save it for someone else.

I was hoping to encourage discussion of the topic OP. Instead you deliberately derailed it.

What an egotist you are without regard for the thoughts or beliefs of others.

To continue to insult my intelligence because I shared a personal experience, shows me how low you'll stoop.


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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:42 am 
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AmyJo wrote:
Maksutov wrote:

Pointing out error is a kindness in itself. A mature individual can recognize that.

You can rage at me and at others like me who question what you claim are real experiences of ghosts and time travel. Our right to question is not in your hands. Our right to disagree isn't either.

I have treated you with patience and consideration. That you respond with anger and accusations isn't in your favor. You consider stories of Venusians ridiculous but not time travelers and ghosts. So you're cherry picking your paranormalism. So what is it, ghosts are okay but aliens not? Time travelers okay but not Mormon angels?

I'm afraid I can't accord "paranormalism" the status of a belief system. It doesn't rise to that standard. For the most part it is an entertainment industry based heavily on fraud and ignorance. Questioning pseudoscience or anomalous experiences is not bigotry against a religion or a philosophy. It's trying to understand what is going on. That isn't just "science", it's something people do routinely to avoid errors in their daily lives.

You can insist that I can't possibly know your experiences. That's true to a point. If you tell me that your experience was about flapping your arms and flying to the moon, I know that it's impossible no matter how upset you get about my skepticism. No matter how you scream, plead or cry. And if you respect your audience you would not expect them to make that leap for you with so little basis.


Accusing someone of being delusional and it's all in my imagination is not treating someone with patience or consideration. It's rude, demeaning, and disrespectful no matter what you believe or don't believe.

Since you dismiss any paranormal experiences as delusional and therefore they're all the same to you whether it's a vinusian baby someone claims to have given birth to, or my own cognitive experience of seeing an ancestor visit me as a child, then I feel sorry for you that you're a disrespectful and arrogant prig who doesn't know the difference between the two.

You obviously have no faith in God or in angels, or the spirit world. I feel sorry for you you have to disrespect and demean others to feel better about yourself.

If you're so sure of your beliefs, why attack mine?

I could care less what you believe in. But I don't chase your posts telling you why you're wrong, or that you are delusional.

Out of my family of all brothers I was the only one in my family that had paranormal experiences. My mother used to call me her most spiritual child. My Mormon grandmother had many spiritual experiences and so has many of my ancestors. It was my Mormon grandmother's late mother who appeared to me as a young girl.

I don't need your validation to affirm what I've seen or the things that have happened to me.
You can wail away as you choose, but it only makes you smaller by comparison to insult me because I shared some of my spiritual experiences here, on a "Mormon Discussion" board. Not to be attacked by the likes of you.

I'm not an agnostic or an atheist. Nor am I looking to be de-converted to your non-belief. Save it for someone else.

I was hoping to encourage discussion of the topic OP. Instead you deliberately derailed it.

What an egotist you are without regard for the thoughts or beliefs of others.

To continue to insult my intelligence because I shared a personal experience, shows me how low you'll stoop.


The title of this forum is the "Celestial Forum".

It is not the "Unconditional Affirmations Forum".

I did not insult your intelligence or call you names. I did not "derail" the thread; I insisted on discussing it. That is what "Mormon Discussions" is. Were you under a different impression?

My atheism or non-atheism is not the topic. In fact, it's irrelevant as I know many confirmed religionists who disagree with paranormal experiences. You are bringing it up as a way to attack and dismiss me (AKA "stooping low") rather than discuss the topic, which is what "Mormon Discussions" is about.

Paranormal experiences are not monolithic. I don't discount everything under the category. But I insist on analyzing claims. That was my pattern long before reading your OP. It will continue to be my pattern because it renders useful information. Paranormal claims are often mistaken or fraudulent. That's simply a fact. You don't get some kind of evidence-free pass because you don't like the conclusions of science. Analysis and skepticism are also useful in selecting consumer products and planning for retirement. As paranormal culture grows and expands its claims, a need for critical analysis and challenge is greater than ever. I support that in my personal actions. It isn't about "insulting" you. It's about questioning your statements. If you can't or won't separate the two, you probably can't have a rational discussion, but it's your choice.

Many of us on this forum came to disbelieve in Mormonism specifically because of its paranormal claims, many of which are demonstrably wrong or even fraudulent. Did you think that you would escape analysis if Joseph Smith doesn't? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:27 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
AmyJo wrote:

Accusing someone of being delusional and it's all in my imagination is not treating someone with patience or consideration. It's rude, demeaning, and disrespectful no matter what you believe or don't believe.

Since you dismiss any paranormal experiences as delusional and therefore they're all the same to you whether it's a vinusian baby someone claims to have given birth to, or my own cognitive experience of seeing an ancestor visit me as a child, then I feel sorry for you that you're a disrespectful and arrogant prig who doesn't know the difference between the two.

You obviously have no faith in God or in angels, or the spirit world. I feel sorry for you you have to disrespect and demean others to feel better about yourself.

If you're so sure of your beliefs, why attack mine?

I could care less what you believe in. But I don't chase your posts telling you why you're wrong, or that you are delusional.

Out of my family of all brothers I was the only one in my family that had paranormal experiences. My mother used to call me her most spiritual child. My Mormon grandmother had many spiritual experiences and so has many of my ancestors. It was my Mormon grandmother's late mother who appeared to me as a young girl.

I don't need your validation to affirm what I've seen or the things that have happened to me.
You can wail away as you choose, but it only makes you smaller by comparison to insult me because I shared some of my spiritual experiences here, on a "Mormon Discussion" board. Not to be attacked by the likes of you.

I'm not an agnostic or an atheist. Nor am I looking to be de-converted to your non-belief. Save it for someone else.

I was hoping to encourage discussion of the topic OP. Instead you deliberately derailed it.

What an egotist you are without regard for the thoughts or beliefs of others.

To continue to insult my intelligence because I shared a personal experience, shows me how low you'll stoop.


The title of this forum is the "Celestial Forum".

It is not the "Unconditional Affirmations Forum".

I did not insult your intelligence or call you names. I did not "derail" the thread; I insisted on discussing it. That is what "Mormon Discussions" is. Were you under a different impression?

My atheism or non-atheism is not the topic. In fact, it's irrelevant as I know many confirmed religionists who disagree with paranormal experiences. You are bringing it up as a way to attack and dismiss me (AKA "stooping low") rather than discuss the topic, which is what "Mormon Discussions" is about.

Paranormal experiences are not monolithic. I don't discount everything under the category. But I insist on analyzing claims. That was my pattern long before reading your OP. It will continue to be my pattern because it renders useful information. Paranormal claims are often mistaken or fraudulent. That's simply a fact. You don't get some kind of evidence-free pass because you don't like the conclusions of science. Analysis and skepticism are also useful in selecting consumer products and planning for retirement. As paranormal culture grows and expands its claims, a need for critical analysis and challenge is greater than ever. I support that in my personal actions. It isn't about "insulting" you. It's about questioning your statements. If you can't or won't separate the two, you probably can't have a rational discussion, but it's your choice.

Many of us on this forum came to disbelieve in Mormonism specifically because of its paranormal claims, many of which are demonstrably wrong or even fraudulent. Did you think that you would escape analysis if Joseph Smith doesn't? :wink:


I'm not here to debate my beliefs with you. You're a know-it-all. There's nothing to debate.

As for my personal experiences, I own them. They are not made up or a product of my imagination. They happened.

My topic isn't about science. It's about belief and faith, and my great grandmother visiting me from the other side.

You deliberately hijacked my thread to attack my beliefs and my personal experience shared here.

I thought you were above that. You proved me wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:36 am 
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AmyJo wrote:
Maksutov wrote:

The title of this forum is the "Celestial Forum".

It is not the "Unconditional Affirmations Forum".

I did not insult your intelligence or call you names. I did not "derail" the thread; I insisted on discussing it. That is what "Mormon Discussions" is. Were you under a different impression?

My atheism or non-atheism is not the topic. In fact, it's irrelevant as I know many confirmed religionists who disagree with paranormal experiences. You are bringing it up as a way to attack and dismiss me (AKA "stooping low") rather than discuss the topic, which is what "Mormon Discussions" is about.

Paranormal experiences are not monolithic. I don't discount everything under the category. But I insist on analyzing claims. That was my pattern long before reading your OP. It will continue to be my pattern because it renders useful information. Paranormal claims are often mistaken or fraudulent. That's simply a fact. You don't get some kind of evidence-free pass because you don't like the conclusions of science. Analysis and skepticism are also useful in selecting consumer products and planning for retirement. As paranormal culture grows and expands its claims, a need for critical analysis and challenge is greater than ever. I support that in my personal actions. It isn't about "insulting" you. It's about questioning your statements. If you can't or won't separate the two, you probably can't have a rational discussion, but it's your choice.

Many of us on this forum came to disbelieve in Mormonism specifically because of its paranormal claims, many of which are demonstrably wrong or even fraudulent. Did you think that you would escape analysis if Joseph Smith doesn't? :wink:


I'm not here to debate my beliefs with you. You're a know-it-all. There's nothing to debate.

As for my personal experiences, I own them. They are not made up or a product of my imagination. They happened.

My topic isn't about science. It's about belief and faith, and my great grandmother visiting me from the other side.

You deliberately hijacked my thread to attack my beliefs and my personal experience shared here.

I thought you were above that. You proved me wrong.


You claimed contact with ghosts and time travelers. Didn't you?

That's what I question. And that isn't about "belief" and "faith", it's about events that you claim happened.

Anyone reading this thread can see that it has been you who has been calling names. Not me.

Your pose of outrage and martyrdom is inspiring. It's right out of the paranormalist playbook. Carry on. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:39 am 
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AmyJo,

Is the point of your OP to ask about the possibility of time travel or share the experience you relate?

I am a bit confused as to what it is actually you are looking for as a response to your OP.

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:52 am 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
AmyJo,

Is the point of your OP to ask about the possibility of time travel or share the experience you relate?

I am a bit confused as to what it is actually you are looking for as a response to your OP.

Thanks


It was meant to be both until maksutov hijacked it.

My beliefs are not on trial here. Why he feels compelled to call me a liar, overly imaginative or delusional is derogatory and insulting. Just because he has no beliefs in a higher power or afterlife doesn't mean others here don't.

This was a thread to share from experiences and perspectives on the possibility of time travel versus an old fashioned haunting. I find that the fact the woman who appeared to me was in full pioneer clothing from another era, belies the traditional hauntings by ghosts. She was on a personal visit, and some kind of voyage as she wasn't alone when she appeared to me.

The fact there was a gathering in the middle of my bedroom after long moments and I heard a whirring noise like an engine of sorts, and then they were gone. It makes me wonder how they traveled. I don't know who all they were, except I did see the lady who was watching me looking up at her. If they were spirits it still doesn't explain her pioneer clothing to me. The only thing rational about her dress would be if she were a time traveler, IMO. Or the spirit world is inhabited by spirits stuck in the time era they lived in on earth.

Another possibility is she appeared to me as I would recognize her years later when I finally saw some photographs I hadn't seen before as a child. The instant I saw her in an old newspaper clipping I knew she was the same lady who appeared to me as a little girl. If she'd appeared to me in any other dress or hairstyle, I would not have made that connection.


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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:00 pm 
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So how would someone like me, who does not believe in the possibility of time travel, or at least not in the sense your OP suggest and also thinks your experience was in all likelihood self generated (for lack of a better word - I am really trying to find a word that is inoffensive here yet at the same time indicates my opinion) engage you in a discussion on this, without offending you?

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:17 pm 
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Dr. Pepper wrote:
This analysis discovered unexplained traces of carbon-60 and an off-the-scale reading of nocturnal emissions. Once back at BYU, the student relayed the information to the head of the Chemistry Department. The administrator then dispatched a male student to reconfirm the work, making sure it was done properly and under the steady hand of the Priesthood. The male student confirmed these findings to the letter.

This kind of stuff is best posted in some science journal. The purpose of this thread is to discount and ridicule paranormal individuals.


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In consultation with the Administration of the Brigham Young University, they decided to release these findings to the Mormon Studies Program at Claremont College, enabling Dr. Patrick Q. Mason to win the 2018 Grand Prize Award from the Mormon History Association.

Good for Dr. Mason, but if he is not specifically claiming to be a paranormal individual then he does not merit any thread specific derision at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:59 pm 
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Our beloved penguin.

I am afraid it might take some sort of paranormal event for some to understand your humor.

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:16 pm 
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AmyJo wrote:
Ever wonder about the possibility of time travel? I have.


Yes, but I think most have. Even people like Einstein. I am not aware of any of the experts that consider it possible, based on current understandings of the laws of the universe, that anyone of us could travel forward or back in time.

Quote:
Since we haven't actually been able to transport ourselves into the past or future yet, I've wondered about the possibility of other dimensions of time that may co-exist with us, in sort of parallel universes or worlds.


Well we certainly don't know enough to say absolutely no, but it is so much speculation as not to be more then sci-fi atm. Fun to think about, but not seriously. Same with time travel. They do make some good scifi stories though like Back to the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Time travelin' Mormons
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:36 am 
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Themis wrote:
AmyJo wrote:
Ever wonder about the possibility of time travel? I have.


Yes, but I think most have. Even people like Einstein. I am not aware of any of the experts that consider it possible, based on current understandings of the laws of the universe, that anyone of us could travel forward or back in time.

Quote:
Since we haven't actually been able to transport ourselves into the past or future yet, I've wondered about the possibility of other dimensions of time that may co-exist with us, in sort of parallel universes or worlds.


Well we certainly don't know enough to say absolutely no, but it is so much speculation as not to be more then sci-fi atm. Fun to think about, but not seriously. Same with time travel. They do make some good scifi stories though like Back to the future.


Of interest, "Although many people believe that time travel is strictly science fiction, it is not. Actually, as odd as this may sound, we are all time travelers. We are traveling from the present to the future. Since all of us move at speeds far below the speed of light, we are essentially all moving in time at the same rate. We measure our movement in time in arbitrary units. The measurement may be in seconds, minutes, hours, etc., based on a conventional clock, or we may be measuring our movement in time on an atomic clock, which is the most accurate type of clock humankind has developed to measure the passage of time.

I realize viewing ourselves as time travelers is not what most people think about when they consider time travel. Most people envision traveling between points in time (e.g. from the present to the past or vice versa), without experiencing the intervening intervals. In this article, we will address forward time travel, since its science and experimental verification is widely accepted by the scientific community.

Einstein’s special theory of relativity, published in 1905, was the first to give scientific meaning to forward time travel. This theory predicted a strange new phenomenon, time dilation. What is time dilation? It is a phenomenon where time moves slower for any mass accelerated near the speed of light. If that mass were a clock, for example, the hands of the clock would appear to be moving slower than a clock at rest. Time dilation is an experimentally verified fact. In 1977, Bailey et al. accelerated a muon, a negatively charged subatomic particle about 200 times heavier than an electron, close to the speed of light, using the CERN Muon storage ring. The accelerated muon’s lifetime increased almost thirty times that of a muon at rest. This time dilation effect suggests that the muon is able to travel to the future, since it continues to exist at a future time. There is also a time dilation effect caused by gravity, but due to its complexity, we will save discussing gravitational time dilation for a potential future article.

Einstein’s special theory of relativity, including time dilation, is widely accepted by the scientific community. In fact, Einstein’s special theory of relativity is the “gold standard” of theories, having withstood over 100 years of experimental verification. However, to date we have not been able to build a time machine to send larger objects, like humans, into the future.

To provide insight into the engineering difficulty of transporting a human into the future, let us consider what is termed the “twin paradox.” Picture a pair of twins. One twin boards a spaceship that leaves Earth at a velocity close to the speed of light (e.g. 95 percent of the speed of light), and returns to Earth a year later relative to the clock on the spaceship. When the space bound twin returns, he or she is one Earth year older. However, for the twin that remained on Earth, approximately three Earth years will have passed. The twin in the spaceship has time traveled to the Earth’s future. The scientific community views the twin paradox a scientific fact, having proven its validity experimentally using particle accelerators.

What is the engineering difficulty regarding the above scenario? It is impossible using today’s science to build a spaceship capable of traveling close to the speed of light. According to Einstein’s special theory of relativity, both the energy required, and the mass of the spaceship approach infinity as the spaceship approaches the speed of light. Today’s science is only able to accelerate subatomic particles close to the speed of light. The energy to accelerate a spaceship close to the speed of light requires we learn to harness extremely large energy sources. For example, we may need to learn to harness the energy equivalence of a star, similar to our Sun.

How close are we to building a practical time machine capable of sending humans to the future? This is a judgment call. If you examine the real science of time travel, there is widespread agreement on the theoretical foundation suggesting forward time travel is possible. Unfortunately, the engineering associated with building a machine capable of sending humans into the future has proved a formidable task. In my judgment, we are at least several decades, or more, away from solving the engineering problems associated with human time travel to the future."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/louis-a-d ... 72750.html

"Scientific research
Probably the most well-known story of accidental time travel is the Philadelphia experiment which allegedly took place in 1943 with the purpose of cloaking a ship and making it invisible to enemies’ radar. However, it was said that the experiment went terribly wrong – the ship not only vanished completely from Philadelphia but it was teleported to Norfolk and went back in time for 10 seconds. When the ship appeared again some crew members were physically fused to bulkheads, others developed mental disorders, a few disappeared completely, and some reported travelling into the future and back. Allegedly, Nikola Tesla, who was the director of Engineering and Research at Radio Company of America at the time, was involved in the experiment by making all the necessary calculations and drawings and also providing the generators (however he wasn't alive when the experiment took place, he died a few months before the experiment took place).

In 1960, we have another interesting case report of scientist Pellegrino Ernetti , who claimed that he developed a machine that would enable someone to see in the past, the Chronivisor. His theory was that anything that happens leaves an energy mark that can never be destroyed (something like the mystical Akashic Records). So he allegedly developed this machine that could detect, magnify and convert this energy into an image – something like a TV showing what happened in the past.

Relativity Theory - Travel in TimeIn the 1980s, there are reports of another controversial experiment, the Montauk project , which again allegedly experimented with time travel among other things. Whether the Philadelphia and Montauk experiments actually took place is still under debate. However, it is common sense to assume that the military would definitely be interested in the possibility of time travel and would engage in extensive research on the subject.

Moving on, in 2004, Marlin Pohlman applied for a patent for a method of gravity distortion and time displacement. Marlin Pohlman is a scientist, engineer, and member of Mensa with a Bachelor, MBA and PhD. And only last year, Wasfi Alshdaifat filed another patent for a space compression and time dilation machine that could be used for time travel.

Physicist Professor Ronald Lawrence Mallett of the University of Connecticut, is working on the concept of time travel, based on Einstein’s theory of relativity, and is absolutely convinced that time travelling is feasible. He predicts that human time travel will be possible in our century. Particle physicist Brian Cox agrees that time travel is possible but only in one direction.

We have the mysterious story of Ali Razeqi, managing director of the Iranian Centre for Strategic Inventions, who claimed that he developed a device that can see anywhere from 3 to 5 years in the future. His initial story disappeared from the internet a few hours after it was published.

In theory, time travel is possible, even if it is difficult to comprehend. Has the research cited above brought us closer towards making time travel a reality? If so, we can only hope that the technology does not get into the wrong hands."

http://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-le ... nce-001242


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