It is currently Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:10 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 138 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:45 am 
God

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:49 am
Posts: 4305
Does your church or temple have a cross, point, or angel on your place of worship's steeple (if there is a steeple)? And why do you think this is the case?


Last edited by LittleNipper on Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:01 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 9608
Location: Your mother's purse
LittleNipper wrote:
Does your chur church or temple have a cross, point, or angel on your place of worship's steeple (if there is a steeple)? And why do you think this is the case?

Given that churches had a prominent, and still do, presence in the built environment they have often served as necessary landmarks. The steeple is a quite elegant and simple means to orient one's self in an urban environment or otherwise. Additionally, the steeple having been an architectural derivative of the military tower or "lookout" has provided it a sensible architectural form that was eventually replaced with a traditional steeple roof. This physical marker that serves as a common "beacon" to the community that it gathers has an obvious cultural and spiritual identity - literally to the physical self, metaphorically to the spiritual self, and somewhere in-between to the contemplative self.
That being said, the use of an "identifier" at a steeple's pinnacle is inevitable....much like how modern civic "towers" will most often be seen with a clock upon it.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:53 pm 
God

Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 1390
I know why crosses are on Christian churches....not sure exactly what the spike on Mormon buildings represents ....perhaps the nails that held Jesus to the cross.... or perhaps for some purely esoteric design purpose. Cross or spike, they are good identifiers. While we are on the subject of identifiers perhaps some good Mormon can explain more fully than the common "they're purely for design" response given when asked why so many Mormon buildings, especially in Salt Lake, feature so many symbols that are associated with the occult.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:57 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:46 pm
Posts: 1690
Location: Somewhere on the ocean with know-it-all control freak Nephi
Albion wrote:
I know why crosses are on Christian churches....not sure exactly what the spike on Mormon buildings represents ....perhaps the nails that held Jesus to the cross.... or perhaps for some purely esoteric design purpose. Cross or spike, they are good identifiers. While we are on the subject of identifiers perhaps some good Mormon can explain more fully than the common "they're purely for design" response given when asked why so many Mormon buildings, especially in Salt Lake, feature so many symbols that are associated with the occult.




The features are not associated with the occult.....they are Masonic...better right?

_________________
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:21 pm 
God

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:49 am
Posts: 4305
I presently attend an Independent Bible Church in Hainesport, New Jersey. The main building once supported a very large eight-sided cupola surmounted by a large weathervane. It lasted some 50 years but eventually bit the dust. It's primary purpose was that of ventilation ---- in the days before air-conditioning....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:58 am 
God

Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 1390
son of Ishmael, I'll bow to any superior knowledge of masonry you might have. I believe the markings are a mixture of masonic and occultic markings (window shapes, inverted pentagrams). When I have asked Mormons why they are there the usual answer is that they are purely for decoration. I can accept the possibility that the meaning of symbols can change over time that perhaps some on the Salt Lake temple were placed at a time when their meaning was different. but now there is a clear connection between these symbols and masonry/occultic practices, why are they still being used on newer temples, especially the temple in Nauvoo? At one time, I understand the swastika was an innocent symbol but with its use by the Nazis it has taken on a completely different meaning. Who in the right mind today, knowing that connection, would decorate their house with swastikas? Some years ago, I read the ultimate and official book on masonry (can't remember the title nor the well know name of the mason who wrote it but its sort of a handbook of masonry). What I do remember from the book is the statement that was to the effect that everything about the true purpose and meaning of masonry was clear to be seen...if people did not see it they deserved to be taken in and it is their fault. I sincerely believe that to be the substance and essence of the fraud of Mormonism.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:38 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 8417
Location: Get ready to feel the THUNDER!
You have to realize that the people that design the temples live in a different world than the rest of us. You have a few dynamics at play.
1) The Brethren. You can't say enough about this influence. They are very caught up in tradition and not changing a thing. If it was done before, they are perfectly happy with keeping the tradition - no matter how offensive or stupid it might be.
2) The architects. I really believe these guys live in a bubble. The designs they often come up with remind me of space ships or something odd. I wish they'd instead design these things to be welcoming, simple and functional buildings instead.
3) The committees. The Church does everything by committee and as most people realize, anything built, designed or done by committee often results in the worst ideas (or lowest common denominator of ideas) being used. This is done to gain acceptance and consensus among the group.

So basically - if someone put something on a temple in the past - some bonehead is probably going to put it on a temple in the future. It doesn't matter what it might mean to others in the current era. And the temples are going to be oddities of the landscape as a result because of the loonies in-charge.

_________________
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:40 pm 
God

Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 1390
Interesting points but not satisfactory, I think, as a probable explanation., If there is one thing I have learned about the Mormon Church it is that it is welll tuned to outside perceptions of itself. Wanting to be looked at favorably, being accepted as "normal", are aspects that I think would over ride any of the reasons you gave. I can only accept that they are there for purpose.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:46 pm 
God

Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 1390
Per my post above. The name of the writer was Albert Pike.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:47 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 8417
Location: Get ready to feel the THUNDER!
Albion wrote:
Interesting points but not satisfactory, I think, as a probable explanation., If there is one thing I have learned about the Mormon Church it is that it is welll tuned to outside perceptions of itself. Wanting to be looked at favorably, being accepted as "normal", are aspects that I think would over ride any of the reasons you gave. I can only accept that they are there for purpose.

I wish that were true, but unfortunately, give the problems it keeps encountering, I don't think it is as "well tuned" as it should be. A well-tuned Church would build low-key, pleasant, welcoming, functional structures that "fit" into the community. They wouldn't be adorned with outlandish symbols or non-functional steeples in order to stand out. I'm sorry, but I can't agree that the Chuch is "well-tuned" because if they were, they wouldn't always be in damage-control mode.

_________________
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:17 pm 
God

Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 1390
Tobin, we obvioulsy have different perceptions of the Mormon Church. I'm not saying yours is wrong but having personal experience of at least one small aspect of its control of perceptions my viewpoint comes from a different angle.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:23 pm 
Bell Ringer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:11 pm
Posts: 11643
Location: Notre-Dame de Paris (bell tower)
Image

It could only be better if the question mark were on top of the steeple (church of the agnostic?). A sign out front that says "We just don't know". Wow, an honest religion.

_________________
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.


Last edited by Quasimodo on Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:06 pm 
Bell Ringer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:11 pm
Posts: 11643
Location: Notre-Dame de Paris (bell tower)
Image

_________________
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:46 am 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:59 am
Posts: 1681
I hope that I will never see a cross on a Mormon temple since it is the "mark of the beast," of the sign of that apostate kingdom, and now represents apostate Christendom!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:40 am 
God

Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 1390
Yes, "Because the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing....."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:33 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:52 am
Posts: 7306
gdemetz wrote:
I hope that I will never see a cross on a Mormon temple since it is the "mark of the beast," of the sign of that apostate kingdom, and now represents apostate Christendom!!!


That's right, and the Masonic occult emblems that adorn your sacred underwear are exactly what makes a good Christian....

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:04 am 
God

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:49 am
Posts: 4305
gdemetz wrote:
I hope that I will never see a cross on a Mormon temple since it is the "mark of the beast," of the sign of that apostate kingdom, and now represents apostate Christendom!!!


The mark of the beast, I thought, is 666


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:56 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:46 pm
Posts: 1690
Location: Somewhere on the ocean with know-it-all control freak Nephi
Drifting wrote:
gdemetz wrote:
I hope that I will never see a cross on a Mormon temple since it is the "mark of the beast," of the sign of that apostate kingdom, and now represents apostate Christendom!!!


That's right, and the Masonic occult emblems that adorn your sacred underwear are exactly what makes a good Christian....




I thopught I heard that there is going to be a cross on the door of the temple in Rome. Maybe that is just an urban legend. The whole "Mormons don't do cross" thing didn't really come about until the 1950's under McKay anyway. There is a podcast on Mormon expressions about the church and crosses.

_________________
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:03 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:08 pm
Posts: 2310
Location: We Have Always Been At War with Eastasia
Albion wrote:
feature so many symbols that are associated with the occult.

'cause we like 'em. Whadda ya goin' do? oooo, call ghost busters?

_________________
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:11 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 18586
Location: Koloburbia
Lightening rods (the cross, angel or point serves this purpose) and Churches go together well. Synagogues use a different tact by offering wholesale.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cross, point, or angel on steeple?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:54 pm 
God

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:49 am
Posts: 4305
lulu wrote:
Albion wrote:
feature so many symbols that are associated with the occult.

'cause we like 'em. Whadda ya goin' do? oooo, call ghost busters?


No, but it does seem rather odd that a place that represents God, and is supposedly dedicated to His worship, would be designed to make GOD seem a secondary thought...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 138 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group