Mettens, I would like to see a reference on that 1865 statement! The teachings of the scriptures as well as the church are that God knows all things. It's a very simple basic doctrine, and I still say that it's grasping straws! Drifting, of course McConkie knows the nature of God, just as the first presidency has known and does now know! This is typical anti twisting statements and grasping at straws!

Drifting, what is that? Is it another Papa Joe site? Everyone should know that ll that alleged "peeping" was well before he got the plates and the urim and thumim when he was twenty three, and there were also many witnesses seeing him translating behind the cloth, and he used the urim and thumim then when translating (not copying the Spaulding manuscript)!

Hi Mittens,

You are all over the place. First you say Mormons believe God IS omniscient; then you say Mormons do not believe God is omniscient. It is no wonder that you can't figure out if what I believe is in agreement, or is in disagreement, with what the LDS Church believes.

I am sorry you are so confused about this. I believe your heart is probably in the right place; i.e., to defend what you believe is True about God. However, if you are going to attack what someone else believes is True about God, you need to understand what it is they DO believe. I hope that you enjoy your journey as you are being led to all Truth.

Peace and blessings,

jo

I'm not confused but LDS leaders our, and we know God is not the author of confusion, anyway that's what LeGrande Richards said

God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end." Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses Vol. 6:120

2 Nephi 9:20 O how great the holiness of our God! For he knoweth all things, and there is not anything save he knows it.

Dear Mittens,

The above two quotes do NOT contradict each other. When you have the eyes to see this, you will see this. Until that time, it will remain hidden from you.

Right now you can only see what you WANT to see; not everything that there IS to see.

Blessings,

jo

See mittens it is obvious. Your eyes are not yet open. I suggest whatever mind altering substance Jo and sheryl are using.

I do, too!! It's called Truth! And the more you receive, the more it will blow your mind!!

Blessings,

jo

The Bibles Truthful

Adam and Others helped in creation, it is true that Adam helped to form this earth. He labored with our Savior Jesus Christ. I have a strong view or conviction that there were others also who assisted them. Perhaps Noah and Enoch; and why not Joseph Smith. Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 1 p 74-75

The Bible says God did the creation alone ?

Isa. 44:24

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer,
And He who formed you from the womb:
“I am the LORD, who makes all things,
Who stretches out the heavens all alone,
Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1
Joseph Fielding Smith, Bruce R. McConkie
1954 Deseret Book Company
ADAM HAD THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. Some people have the idea that the Ten Commandments were first given by Moses when he directed the children of Israel and formulated their code of laws. This is not the case. These great commandments are from the beginning and were understood in righteous communities in the days of Adam. They are, in fact, fundamental parts of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the gospel in its fulness was first given to Adam.

Hello Mittens,

Yes, I agree that the Bible is Truthful. I think it is possible that even more of us were involved in laboring with our Savior, Jesus Christ. But I have no scripture to support this. My reasoning comes from the belief that we were One with God before we came to the earth in our body of flesh.



It could be that we are confined to our written language which can cause confusion. Here is the Septuagint's version of Isa. 44:24. It is not very different - but I think it may help us to understand a little easier:

Isa.44:24 (Septuagint) Thus saith the Lord that redeems thee, and who formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that performs all things: I stretched out the heaven alone, and established the earth.

There are many passages in the Bible which I do not yet understand. However, I will offer my thoughts on this passage. It could be that Jesus directly is the one who stretched out the heaven. Likewise, according to the King James Version of the Bible, Jesus could have directly been the one who spread abroad the earth by Himself. The Septuagint version gives us a different perspective at least about the earth: it says Jesus "established" the earth....and it says nothing about Him doing it by Himself.

The stretching forth of the heaven, and the spreading abroad of the earth (or, the establishing of the earth) was only the beginning of the creation of the earth. There were other steps involved with the creation of the earth. Perhaps these other steps involved the others you have named (or even more than those you listed) helping Jesus.

Another perspective could be that it was Jesus who was the only one "in charge" of directing others for the whole process; including the stretching forth of heaven and the spreading abroad (or establishment) of the earth. In this scenario, Jesus would have been like the president of a corporation (so to speak). This would still have allowed Jesus to be the only one "in charge" - and others would have been directed by Him to not only help with the other steps in the creation of the earth; but also in helping to stretch forth the heaven and spread abroad/establish the earth.

Maybe some other readers have some "Light" they can share with us.



Logically, this makes sense. Since Adam had received the fulness of the Gospel, he would probably have also known the Ten Commandments. Additionally, we know that Cain, Adam's son, was the first man who committed murder on our earth. If this had not broken a commandment, then Cain would not have been punished by God.

There is probably a great deal more that Adam knew. It is just that after the passage of time mankind began to forget about what their forefathers had taught. Perhaps when God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, that was the first time they had been written down; and by the finger of God no less!

Blessings,

jo

<< 1 Corinthians 3:9 >>


New International Version (©1984)
For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For we are both God's workers. And you are God's field. You are God's building.

English Standard Version (©2001)
For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

International Standard Version (©2008)
For we are God's co-workers. You are God's farmland and God's building.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For we labor with God and you are the crop and the building of God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
We are God's coworkers. You are God's field. You are God's building.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For we are laborers together with God: you are God's field, you are God's building.

American King James Version
For we are laborers together with God: you are God's husbandry, you are God's building.

American Standard Version
For we are God's fellow-workers: ye are God's husbandry, God's building.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For we are God's coadjutors: you are God's husbandry; you are God's building.

Darby Bible Translation
For we are God's fellow-workmen; ye are God's husbandry, God's building.

English Revised Version
For we are God's fellow-workers: ye are God's husbandry, God's building.

Webster's Bible Translation
For we are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Weymouth New Testament
Apollos and I are simply fellow workers for and with God, and you are *God's* field-- *God's* building.

World English Bible
For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's farming, God's building.

Young's Literal Translation
for of God we are fellow-workmen; God's tillage, God's building ye are

Jo, one of the problems with the apostates, and in particular the ones who allegedly believe in the Bible, is that they use a double standard in their faulty judgements. There are many seemingly contradictions in the Bible itself, and some of this is due to the problems of translation. However, they never mention these! If I were ignorant like some of them and was inspired to be an anti, I could say that Christ prophesied incorrectly by stating that He would be in the heart of the earth for three days and three as Matthew 12:40 records! However, not being possessed with the spirit of apostasy, I decided to look deeper, and I found out that there were words in Aramaic and in Greek for parts of days and nights, but there was no such expression in English. Therefore the KJV translations simply translated it as three days and three nights when Christ was actually in the tomb only from Friday evening until Sunday morning which was only two nights. Another thing Mittens doesn't seem to understand is that opinions and statements by prophets and apostles do not necessarily constitute revelation. She should read my post on this site entitled "Prophets and Apostles are not Perfect." Also, in my opinion, this whole recent topic is silly anyway and shows the amount of effort as well as the lengths the anti's will go in order to try to discredit the restored gospel! Yes God does know all things; including any chemical or mathematical formula as well as all the sub atomic particles, etc., etc., etc. However, if He were to create some new world, then perhaps that could be considered more added knowledge! Pick another more substantial topic next time to attack Gods work, anti's.

Logically, this makes sense. Since Adam had received the fulness of the Gospel, he would probably have also known the Ten Commandments. Additionally, we know that Cain, Adam's son, was the first man who committed murder on our earth. If this had not broken a commandment, then Cain would not have been punished by God.

There is probably a great deal more that Adam knew. It is just that after the passage of time mankind began to forget about what their forefathers had taught. Perhaps when God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, that was the first time they had been written down; and by the finger of God no less!

Blessings,

jo


So is the fullness of the Gospel found in the Book Of Mormon?

Pearl Of Great Price
34 He said there was a a\book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;


Bruce mcConkie trying to explain.........
Our revelations say that the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of Gospel. { D&C 20:9, 27:5. 42:12, 135:3 } This is true in the sense that Book of Mormon is a record of God's dealings with a people who had the fulness of the gospel and therefore the laws and priciples leading to the highest salvation are found recorded in that book.
The fullness consists in those laws, doctrines, ordnances, powers, and authorities needed to enable men to gain the fullness of salvation. Mormon Doctrine page 333

Selections from Answers to Gospel Questions
Taken from the writings of Joseph Fielding Smith
Tenth President of Mormonism
A course Study for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorums
1972-73

Lesson 6 page 39

It was Jesus who gave commandments to Adam after he was driven out of the Garden of Eden and who directed Enoch and Noah before the flood. It was Christ who named Abraham and made him that through his posterity all nations would be blessed. He, it was who called Moses to lead Isreal out of Egypt and who wrote with his fingers on the tables of stone. He had no body until he was born in Bethlehem. If Christ could do these things as a spirit, the Holy Ghost can carry out the mind and will of the Father and the Son as a spirit. We are taught plainly that the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, are One God, that is one Godhead.

Hi gd, have you read Grant Palmers book yet?

teachings of Mormons not found in Book of Mormon, The Articles of Faith “ Mormon Creed” or Bible.

1. The plurality of Gods (Mormon Doctrine pp. 576, 577)
2. The baptism for the dead done in holy temples (Mormon Doctrine pp. 72,73)
3. Celestial marriage which no unworthy member or outsider can attend (Mormon Doctrine pp. 117, 118)
4. Polygamy needed to become a God (Journal of Discourse, Vol. II p. 269)
5. Blacks were cursed with a dark skin (Mormon Doctrine p. 109)
6. You can become a God if you are worthy; celestial marriage required (Mormon Doctrine p. 118)
7. We were all pre-existent spirits (Mormon Doctrine p. 589)
8. God has a body of flesh and bones (Mormon Doctrine p. 289)
9. We have a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father (Mormon Doctrine p. 516)
10. There are three levels of heaven. To go to the highest kingdom, you must be a Mormon. Honorable persons go to the Terrestrial kingdom. The dishonest, liars, sorcerers, adulterers and whoremongers go to the Telestial kingdom. (Mormon Doctrine pp. 420, 421)
11. God and his wife achieved a celestial marriage (Celestial Marriage Manual p. 1)
12. Heavenly Father died just like Jesus (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 346)
13. God was once just like us and progressed to godhood (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 345)
14. God has a father and His Father has a Father, etc. (Mormon Doctrine p. 322)
15. Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers (Mormon Doctrine p. 192)
16. Jesus and Lucifer each had a plan to people the earth. Jesus' plan was chosen and caused Lucifer to rebel and he and the angels that followed him were cast out of heaven. (Mormon Doctrine p. 193)
17. God lives near a star called Kolob (Mormon Doctrine p. 428)
18. Temple endowments are so sacred that you must be worthy to enter (Mormon Doctrine pp. 619, 620)
19. Jesus was not able to keep his church together (History of the Church Vol. 6 pp. 408, 409)
20. In the future, you will need Joseph Smith's consent in order to enter the celestial kingdom (Journal of Discourse Vol. 7 p.289)
21. Not everything you'll need to know concerning salvation will be recorded in the Bible but there will be additional scriptures (Mormon Doctrine p. 83)"

So what Mittens? What is your point? Some of those true teachings are not found in the Bible either? You already wrote what Bruce Mcconkie stated about "the fullness." I never liked that term anyway, and always felt like the anti's who Satan inspires to hunt for ways to attack the truth would try to capitalize on that statement. However, one should keep in mind that NO book has all the details of the gospel in it, although the Book of Mormon has a fullness of the basic plan of salvation which, if followed, will lead someone to the celestial kingdom! However, much temple work for these people will have to be done, and it will be done.

I have better things to do than read more tabloid articles, Drifting.

I knew you were chicken.
Read it and tell me what is in it that is factually incorrect.

Hello Mittens,

I'm not sure what the connection is between my response you have quoted above and your new question.

Yes, the fullness of the Gospel can be found in the Book Of Mormon. I personally read and studied the Book of Mormon in order to determine for myself whether it did or did not before I would even consider joining the LDS Church.

If you are sincerely seeking the truth about whether or not the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the Gospel, you would read it yourself, rather than depending upon what others have to say. Certainly, then you would not be trying to provide what you perceive as being some type of evidence of conflict. You would be able to answer your own questions.

Meanwhile, here are the actual Scripture passages which you referred to. Did you read them before you created this post?

D&C 20:9 Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also;

D&C 27:5 Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim;

D&C 42:12 And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.

D&C 135:3 Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum. In life they were not divided, and in death they were not separated!

Do you know the actual history and circumstances of the book, "Mormon Doctrine"? I suspect that you are merely re-typing something you have obtained from an anti-LDS source document.

At some point in your journey of trying to return to God, you will discover ways to prepare yourself to receive more Truth rather than trying to destroy another person's faith in God. That is when the Holy Spirit will be able to increase your knowledge of the Kingdom of God.

Blessings,

jo

Hmmm...so is the temple endowment not part of the fullness of the Gospel? Because I too have read the Book of Mormon and the only reference I can find about organisations with secret passwords and signs seems to suggest they are evil...

Hi GD,

Her point is that she would rather try to destroy another's faith in God, than spend time personally seeking for the guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead her to All Truth. Otherwise, she would realize she is going against what Jesus taught:

Luke 9:49-50 (KJV)

49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Perhaps it would be better if we did not continue responding to her. In fact, I think I will not post to her anymore.

Blessings,

jo

Hi Drifting,

Are you confusing continuing revelation with the fulness of the Gospel revealed in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon? Or perhaps you are using a different definition of the fulness of the Gospel? Are you saying that the fulness of the Gospel should include All Truth? Jesus didn't reveal All Truth in the Bible or in the Book of Mormon. He only revealed what Father wanted Him to reveal; not everything that He knew.

Meh - the Kabbalah had secret higher spiritual teachings which were kept hidden from the general Jewish populace. It does not teach the ways of the Gadianton Robbers; neither do the LDS Temples.

Blessings,

jo

Does the Book of Mormon contain the fulness of the Gospel or the fulness of the Gospel before more Gospel fulness was added? Because the Church seems to think it's the former and you seem to be saying its the latter.

Or does latter day continuing revelation not form part of the Gospel?