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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:18 pm 
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I think the argument that Jesus did not reveal all truth diminishes him. Jesus is all truth..."I am the way, the truth and the life." All truth necessary for salvation has been revealed in scripture and Jesus himself is the epitome of that truth. To assert otherwise is false teaching.


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Albion wrote:
I think the argument that Jesus did not reveal all truth diminishes him. Jesus is all truth..."I am the way, the truth and the life." All truth necessary for salvation has been revealed in scripture and Jesus himself is the epitome of that truth. To assert otherwise is false teaching.


Quote:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:


Now isn't this interesting. Here we have Jesus, resurrected and back from the Father and all the Bible mentions about it this one passing verse. Now, I just wonder what wonderful things he told them. I wouldn't be so dismissive of what Mormons have to say if I were you.

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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Daniel 2 tells us when the Kingdom arrived

41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

Head of Gold is the Babylonian Empire
Breasts and arms of silver is the Medo-Persian Empire
Belly and thighs of brass is the Macedonian Empire
Legs of Iron is the Roman Empire
Feet of iron and clay is Rome broken into Ten Kingdoms

1. Alemanni - Germany.
2. Franks - France.
3. Burgundians - Switzerland.
4. Suevi - Portugal.
5. Vandals - Exterminated.
6. Visigoths - Spain.
7. Anglo-Saxons - England.
8. Ostrogoths - Exterminated.
9. Lombards - Italy.
10. Heruli - Exterminated.



Notice in verse 44
God would set up a kingdom which would never be destroyed during the Roman Empire and it would fill the whole earth. Would Jesus come down from his throne in heaven die a death so terrible and horrific death ....that it would only last 70 years

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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:23 pm 
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Albion, you and Mittens, and especially you are way off base, as usual! Christ church was founded upon the principle or rock of REVELATION, and when the church was restored in fulfillment of BIBLICAL prophesy and more revelations were received, then you want to say that it was adding to the Bible! The Bible itself states that truth will spring out of the earth! Where does the Bible state that it is the only scripture?!?

Mittens, you are wrong in the last part of your interpretation of Daniel 2. Christ set up His kingdom during His earthly ministry, during the time of the "iron legs," but because of apostasy and persecution it became necessary for it to be restored. This time of restoration refers to the last days when the "little stone" which represents the restored church of Jesus Christ strikes the image on the feet, or comes and eventually causes the fall of Babylon, or these earthly kingdoms. This certainly did not happen in the days of the kingdoms you mentioned which were immediately after the Roman Empire! However, it did happen in the last days. The church Christ set up was actually restored again with it's foundation of prophets and apostles, other offices, true priesthood, baptism by immersion, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.! God certainly did not set up any kingdom during the time of those you mentioned!


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Albion, you and Mittens, and especially you are way off base, as usual! Christ church was founded upon the principle or rock of REVELATION, and when the church was restored in fulfillment of BIBLICAL prophesy and more revelations were received, then you want to say that it was adding to the Bible! The Bible itself states that truth will spring out of the earth! Where does the Bible state that it is the only scripture?!?

Mittens, you are wrong in the last part of your interpretation of Daniel 2. Christ set up His kingdom during His earthly ministry, during the time of the "iron legs," but because of apostasy and persecution it became necessary for it to be restored. This time of restoration refers to the last days when the "little stone" which represents the restored church of Jesus Christ strikes the image on the feet, or comes and eventually causes the fall of Babylon, or these earthly kingdoms. This certainly did not happen in the days of the kingdoms you mentioned which were immediately after the Roman Empire! However, it did happen in the last days. The church Christ set up was actually restored again with it's foundation of prophets and apostles, other offices, true priesthood, baptism by immersion, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.! God certainly did not set up any kingdom during the time of those you mentioned!


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:40 pm 
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The Rock was Jesus


1 Corinthians 10
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3 all ate the same spiritual food,
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.


if the Rock was revelation, why isn't your religion called "the Church Of Revelation of Latter Days Saints"

I think you know better

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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:18 pm 
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It's true that Christ is the rock, the chief cornerstone of the church, but in context, Peter had received a revelation confirming that Christ was literally the Son of God. Therefore Christ tells him that upon this principle, revelation from God, Christ would build His church! The true church as long as it exists is built on this principle, revelation from Christ, or God, and not man made doctrine!


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:04 am 
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The Book of Mormon must have man made doctrine then since it teaches the Trinity

God in Three Person Calvin Besiner

When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24

“The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

2 Nephi 31:
21And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.


Alma 11:
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Mormon 7:
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

The Testimony of Three Witnesses
And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

Doctrine and Covenants 20 :
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.



Trinity

The doctrine of the Trinity in the godhead includes the three following particulars, viz. (a) There is only one God, one divine nature; (b) but in this divine nature there is the distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as three (subjects or persons); and (c) these three-have equally, and in common with one another, the nature and perfection of supreme divinity. It was the custom in former times for theologians to blend their own speculations and those of others with the statement of the Bible doctrine. It is customary now to exhibit first the simple doctrine of the Bible, and afterwards, in a separate part, the speculations of the learned respecting it.
(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:32 am 
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gdemetz, I suspect there is very little difference between Mittens and myself when it comes to Biblical Christian doctrine except perhaps in the way we articulate it. I am very happy to be perceived by you as "off base'" if you are comparing me with the corrupted Biblical interpretations of Mormonism. It's a case of getting the cart before the horse in that you use what Smith says as the standard and seek to prop it up out of the Bible rather than using the Bible as the standard against which Smith's claims should be tested. When this is done he is found wanting and is exposed as the charlatan he was.


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:00 am 
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The Book of Mormon was obviously written by someone who believed the Creedal Formula of the Trinity

TRINITY
The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)


Trinity
used to express the doctrine of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr.
trias
, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)




we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in TRINITY The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)




1. we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in technical terms, supplied by philosophical reflection; but the doctrine stated is a genuinely Scriptural doctrine.
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Mittens, as usual, you and Albion are way off base. The Book of Mormon was definitely not written by people who believed in the false Athenasian Creed! Anyone who has actually read that ridiculous creed and still believes it, in my opinion, probably has lost touch with reality! Remember, Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon as well as having seen the Father and Son SEPARATELY AS ALL TRUE BIBLICAL AND BOOK OF Mormon PROPHETS HAVE SEEN WHO HAVE HAD THAT VISION! The witness statement just confirms that the Godhead (the true Biblical term) which we worship is simply also referred to, since it is one unit, as one God. However, the more correct Biblical term is Godhead! The oneness is FIGURATIVE! Christ also stated that He would pray for his apostles that they may all be one JUST AS HE AND HIS FATHER WERE ONE! Does it make since to pray to the same "substance," or that part of the same substance would know when part would return to the earth, but the other part would not, not to mention the absurdity of the three manifestations at Christ's baptism?!?

"FOR THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THEY WILL NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE...AND SHALL BE TURNED UNTO FABLES."


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:58 pm 
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by gdemetz » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:32 pm
Does it make since to pray to the same "substance," or that part of the same substance would know when part would return to the earth, but the other part would not, not to mention the absurdity of the three manifestations at Christ's baptism?!?

You failed to read the difinition of the Trinity, I produced 6 different sourses for it and all said three separate and distinct persons represent the One God,
[God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- being [ all Synonyms ] always three when refering to persons always one when refering to [God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- being [ all Synonyms ] You need to read post before going into rant


Jesus even said there is only One God and that was the greatest comandment
Mark 12:
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Joseph Smith Jr disagrees with Book of Mormon and Jesus

Joseph Smith said the Trinity is three gods.
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).

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Last edited by Mittens on Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:02 pm 
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Mittens, I have read the original; the ridiculous Athenasian where this whole stupidity started! You should read that! I know that false concept very well!


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:09 pm 
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gdemetz » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:02 pm

Mittens, I have read the original; the ridiculous Athenasian where this whole stupidity started! You should read that! I know that false concept very well!

I agree with the Athansion Creed, it is divided into two parts, One says when Jesus was Jehovah of the Old Testament he was equal with the Father, yet line 33 says he was inferior with the Father since laid aside the eqality when he became man.

Phil 2:
[Let Him be your example in humility:]

6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [[b]possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not [c]think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [d]or retained,


Which part of the Athanasion creed do you diagree with gdemetz

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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Drifting wrote:
Quote:
8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi, Chapter 1)


This is what Nephi was told by God circa 590bc.

Yet...

Quote:
The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians. (Book of Mormon, Introduction)


So why didn't God inform Nephi that the land had in fact been inhabited before and hadn't been kept from all other nations as a Land of Promise pending Nephi's groups arrival?


So are you saying that other nations knew of the Americas? I always thought that God revealed this to small groups and not nations. Can you back up your statement with historical documents showing that other nations knew of the Americas around 600 BC? Or are you saying that the small group that left Jerusalem was a nation? Just what are you saying? Please form your ideas in a way that makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Which part? Actually, there are many parts that I do not agree with and consider false man made doctrines:

!- I don't agree with: "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith...{or}perish everlastingly."

2- I don't agree with: "And the Catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. NEITHER CONFOUNDING THE PERSONS, NOR DIVIDING THE SUBSTANCE" (as well as the rest of this ridiculous first paragraph).

3- I don't agree with: "...so we are forbidden by the Catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords" {I have to admit that this brainwashing has really sunk in just as Satan wished for!}..."neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding" {? If you can't dazzel them with brilliance, then just baffel them with BS!}.

4- I don't agree with: "{along with the rest of paragraph 3} He therefore that will be saved MUST THUS THINK OF THE TRINITY" {over the centuries this brainwashing has really sunk deep!}.

{I don't really have a problem with paragraph 4 if it is taken in the correct light.}

5- I don't agree with: {in addition to some of the same redundant BS} {Christ} "...descended into hell..." {actually, the spirit world, and He commissioned others to preach in hades} "... and they that have done evil into everlasting fire {only okay if taken as prophetic language and not literally}. This is the Catholic Faith {sic}, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved." {BS}

If you don't divide the "substance," and they are all the same "substance," then what kind of dumb substance would that be where it's all together, but you still pray to your own "substance," and part of it knows when you will return to the earth, but the other part doesn't (even though it is not divided), and part of the flexible substance lands on itself during part of it's baptism, all the while while the baptized part throws it's voice to heaven stating that it is well pleased with the other part which is baptized, and... never mind {BS}.


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:24 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
Which part? Actually, there are many parts that I do not agree with and consider false man made doctrines:

!- I don't agree with: "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith...{or}perish everlastingly."

The term Catholic means "universal" not Roman Catholic

2- I don't agree with: "And the Catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. NEITHER CONFOUNDING THE PERSONS, NOR DIVIDING THE SUBSTANCE" (as well as the rest of this ridiculous first paragraph).

confouding means not mixing up the persons like Joseph Smith did

Mosiah 15
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal cFather of heaven and of earth.

Mosiah 16:
15 Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father. Amen.


Alma 11:38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?


Ether 3:14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.


3- I don't agree with: "...so we are forbidden by the Catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords" {I have to admit that this brainwashing has really sunk in just as Satan wished for!}..."neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding" {? If you can't dazzel them with brilliance, then just baffel them with BS!}.

The Book of Mormon says Jesus was uncreated

2 Nephi 26:12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

4- I don't agree with: "{along with the rest of paragraph 3} He therefore that will be saved MUST THUS THINK OF THE TRINITY" {over the centuries this brainwashing has really sunk deep!}.

{I don't really have a problem with paragraph 4 if it is taken in the correct light.}

5- I don't agree with: {in addition to some of the same redundant BS} {Christ} "...descended into hell..." {actually, the spirit world, and He commissioned others to preach in hades} "... and they that have done evil into everlasting fire {only okay if taken as prophetic language and not literally}. This is the Catholic Faith {sic}, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved." {BS}

That's in the Apostle Creed and The Bible says Jesus went to hell for three days
Acts 2
25 “King David quoted Jesus as saying: ‘I know the Lord is always with me. He is helping me. God’s mighty power supports me.
26 ’No wonder my heart is filled with joy and my tongue shouts his praises! For I know all will be well with me in death—
27 ’You will not leave my soul in hell or let the body of your Holy Son decay.
28 ’You will give me back my life and give me wonderful joy in your presence.’
29 “Dear brothers, think! David wasn’t referring to himself when he spoke these words I have quoted, for he died and was buried, and his tomb is still here among us.
30 But he was a prophet, and knew God had promised with an unbreakable oath that one of David’s own descendants would be the Messiah and£ sit on David’s throne.
31 David was looking far into the future and predicting the Messiah’s resurrection, and saying that the Messiah’s soul would not be left in hell and his body would not decay.
32 He was speaking of Jesus, and we all are witnesses that Jesus rose from the dead.
33 “And now he sits on the throne of highest honor in heaven, next to God. And just as promised, the Father gave him the authority to send the Holy Spirit—with the results you are seeing and hearing today.
3 4“No, David was not speaking of himself in these words of his I have quoted, for he never ascended into the skies. Moreover, he further stated, ‘God spoke to my Lord, the Messiah, and said to him, Sit here in honor beside me
3 5until I bring your enemies into complete subjection.’

If you don't divide the "substance," and they are all the same "substance," then what kind of dumb substance would that be where it's all together, but you still pray to your own "substance," and part of it knows when you will return to the earth, but the other part doesn't (even though it is not divided), and part of the flexible substance lands on itself during part of it's baptism, all the while while the baptized part throws it's voice to heaven stating that it is well pleased with the other part which is baptized, and... never mind {BS}.


Yes the Substance or Godhead is One

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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:45 pm 
God
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gdemetz wrote:
Mittens, as usual, you and Albion are way off base. The Book of Mormon was definitely not written by people who believed in the false Athenasian Creed! Anyone who has actually read that ridiculous creed and still believes it, in my opinion, probably has lost touch with reality! Remember, Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon as well as having seen the Father and Son SEPARATELY AS ALL TRUE BIBLICAL AND BOOK OF Mormon PROPHETS HAVE SEEN WHO HAVE HAD THAT VISION! The witness statement just confirms that the Godhead (the true Biblical term) which we worship is simply also referred to, since it is one unit, as one God. However, the more correct Biblical term is Godhead! The oneness is FIGURATIVE! Christ also stated that He would pray for his apostles that they may all be one JUST AS HE AND HIS FATHER WERE ONE! Does it make since to pray to the same "substance," or that part of the same substance would know when part would return to the earth, but the other part would not, not to mention the absurdity of the three manifestations at Christ's baptism?!?

"FOR THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THEY WILL NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE...AND SHALL BE TURNED UNTO FABLES."


Hi GD!

Indeed, when the Book of Mormon was originally being written, neither the Nephites nor the Lamanites would even have heard of ANY of the creeds, the Trinity Dogma, the Council of Nicea in 325 AD, the Early Church Fathers, none of the manuscripts which would eventually be canonized and known as the Bible, who the people were who followed Christ in His earthly ministry, Paul, that the Temple had been rebuilt and then subsequently destroyed, the destruction of Jerusalem and the death of over a million Jews in 70AD, the Septuagint etc., etc.

Blessings,

jo


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:31 am 
God

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Surely that would all have been known in the 1800s even in backwoods New York state?


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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:44 pm 
God

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Joseph Smith Jr knew of a little Island NE of madascare on west African coast developed in 1500 with capital called Nephi

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 Post subject: Re: Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:47 pm 
God

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:07 pm
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Joseph Smith Jr knew of these names "Nephi and Moroni" on West African Coast

http://www.nephiproject.com/Moroni's%20Harbor.htm

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Grace = Getting what you can never deserve


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