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 Post subject: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:59 pm 
2nd Quorum of Seventy

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http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/kyiv/ga ... hp?id=6439 Temple in Kyiev

http://discoveringgrace.wordpress.com/2 ... on-temple/ Rome Temple with Cross

President Hinckley said to him: “‘I do not wish to give offense to any of my Christian colleagues who use the cross on the steeples of their cathedrals and at the altars of their chapels, who wear it on their vestments, and imprint it on their books and other literature. But for us, the cross is the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the Living Christ.’” (“The Symbol of Christ,” New Era, Apr. 1990, 4.)

Joseph Fielding Smith – “To many, like the writer, such a custom is repugnant and contrary to the true worship of our Redeemer. Why should we bow down before a cross or use it as a symbol? Because our Savior died on the cross, the wearing of crosses is to most Latter-day Saints in very poor taste and inconsistent to our worship.” (Answers to Gospel Questions 4:17;)

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:29 pm 
God

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1. Only anti-mormon out of context bearing false witness makes the claim that we have some "extreme" aversion to the "cross". Fact is is we don't. Yes, we generally avoid it because of the reasons we always state, but there is no aversion to it.

2. The cross can actually be found if looking on many LDS Temples.

3. Further, the fact is that "Christianity" is falsely using the cross as a symbol. Why? Because nearly all indications of the word "cross" in reference to Christ (other than a couple of specific references) is using the word "cross" to refer to "Christ's Cross", i.e. his sacrifice, his atonement, his mission, etc.

It's not at all talking about the actual physical instrument called the "cross" that he died on. This can be understood by both reading the reference in context of the scripture, and further by reading it in the original language. The "translators" are the ones who added the word "cross"..... It was in reference to his sacrifice etc., not the actual physical cross.


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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:19 pm 
1st Quorum of Seventy

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:51 am 
2nd Quorum of Seventy

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:07 pm
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Mktavish wrote:
Oh I get it ... the mormon aversion to the cross, is because they are vampires???

Did anybody notice the side advertisement if you follow that second link for temple in Rome?

It said " We are adopted by god not born to a heavenly father and mother"

So would that mean we are not created by god? Hmmm it seems the so called "christians" are changeing their toon also.


notice how we are children by adoption only not literal children of God


• Ephesians 1:5
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

• Galatians 4:5
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

• Romans 8:15
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

• Romans 8:23
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

• Romans 9:4
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:28 am 
1st Quorum of Seventy

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:44 am 
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Mormons have their own types of symbols that they like to remind them of God
Jesus is not that important to Mormons with them its all about Joseph and what he did hence...
ImageImageImageImageImageImage
Not forgeting the Masonic symbols in their underwear they are the real symbols that save, not the cross!

Sun, Moon and Stars... = Intelligence, light and knowledge are linked in their understanding... Which is why they believe in fibre optic technology.

Handshakes and Beehives, is all about community and social standing, The Queen stays at home making babies surrounded by gold, the workers work their asses off and the drones who can't be arsed do nothing.

CTR stands for choose the right, rather than WWJD what would Joseph / Jesus do?

then there's the golden Moroni cause the whole of Gods plan was made possible by him.

then there are the most revered of symbols those of the stone masons, stitched into their undies are the workman's tools that are so sacred they don't tell anyone what they are.

The pentagram... is the same as the compass and square, the inverted pentagram represents the pyramid and the revelation from God to man through the pyramid to the earth.

the square, to symbolize uprightness before God. What is it you need to be straight with him about,he knows everything? Perhaps Gods representative wants to be convinced your paying an honest tithe?

the compass, is meant to represent boundaries even though the girth is extendable? So what God says may change, be flexible!

the navel to represent the need of constant nourishment, in other words rely on whatever s*** we feed you, that we have also been fed, eliminating the need for independent thinking.

the knee representing that every knee shall bow, at the coming of the savior? Why would some one need wear a symbol in their pants to be constantly reminded of that? your mind is not good enough.

They are all Vague and meaning less man made symbols.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:55 am 
God

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 2332
Mktavish wrote:
Mittens wrote:
notice how we are children by adoption only not literal children of God


• Ephesians 1:5
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

• Galatians 4:5
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

• Romans 8:15
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

• Romans 8:23
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

• Romans 9:4
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


Well I'm certainly not going to debate scripture and its meaning. But wouldn't the belief that god created the universe and everything in it fly against him adopting us. Meaning we were allready here?

My belief of what god really might be (Atleast to say him ,a deity that interacts with humans) Is one that is trying to actively "Adopt" us as you might say. And there are probably many of them , which is why we see faith in god so split up.

I suppose we could call these personages the software developers that have knowledge at various levels of programming , to make software for us ... the end users.

However then this imply's there was a creator for the computer and its basic laws of function. I just believe this entity is static in our world as we know it. (All knowing , never needing or able to learn anything) Therefore dead in existence to what we know as it (that life evolves,grows ... learns)

Satan reigns over the earth. When Adam and Eve sinned, they became the children of satan. One must be redeemed/saved in order to become a child of God. The Moromon concept seems to be that God begat spirit babies who would be in fact His children; however, that would also make them Gods and perfect as their Father. This is not the case. Man is a created being who has a body, soul and spirit (God breathed -- not begotten). Man was created perfect but had the ability to choose to become evil. God cannot become evil. When Adam and Eve choose evil, they became like satan ---- corrupted and satan's ward. The only way man can get back to God is through adoption by way of the Redeemer by placing their faith in His power ---- not trying to rely on one's own (which is why Adam and Eve sinned in the 1st place ------- See Genesis (EAT THIS and you will BECOME like God).


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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:01 am 
Sunbeam

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:39 am
Posts: 58
ldsfaqs wrote:
1. Only anti-mormon out of context bearing false witness makes the claim that we have some "extreme" aversion to the "cross". Fact is is we don't. Yes, we generally avoid it because of the reasons we always state, but there is no aversion to it.

2. The cross can actually be found if looking on many LDS Temples.

3. Further, the fact is that "Christianity" is falsely using the cross as a symbol. Why? Because nearly all indications of the word "cross" in reference to Christ (other than a couple of specific references) is using the word "cross" to refer to "Christ's Cross", i.e. his sacrifice, his atonement, his mission, etc.

It's not at all talking about the actual physical instrument called the "cross" that he died on. This can be understood by both reading the reference in context of the scripture, and further by reading it in the original language. The "translators" are the ones who added the word "cross"..... It was in reference to his sacrifice etc., not the actual physical cross.



Come on “ldsfaqs” your comments here are very polarizing. I agree that many in the bloggernacle are just grinding out their anger, but this is clearly a cross on a temple which the church has clearly taught against the use of crosses since its very beginning. Mormons have not just "generally" avoided it, this is the first cross I have ever seen on any Mormon building, I certainly did not expect to see it on a temple regardless of how subtle it might be. It makes sense, Rome has allot of Catholics, however is the church trying to mainstreaming to much?

Even though it is a subtle cross on the front door and not replacing Moroni on top the spire, would hardliners like Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie approve?

"In succeeding centuries, the churches which came into being through an intermingling of pagan concepts with the true apostolic Christianity developed the practice of using symbolic crosses in the architecture of their buildings and jewelry. . . All this is inharmonious with the quiet spirit of worship and reverence that should attend a true Christian's remembrance of our Lord's sufferings and death". (Mormon Doctrine p.172)


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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:23 am 
2nd Quorum of Seventy

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 698
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Dcharle wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:
1. Only anti-mormon out of context bearing false witness makes the claim that we have some "extreme" aversion to the "cross". Fact is is we don't. Yes, we generally avoid it because of the reasons we always state, but there is no aversion to it.

2. The cross can actually be found if looking on many LDS Temples.

3. Further, the fact is that "Christianity" is falsely using the cross as a symbol. Why? Because nearly all indications of the word "cross" in reference to Christ (other than a couple of specific references) is using the word "cross" to refer to "Christ's Cross", i.e. his sacrifice, his atonement, his mission, etc.

It's not at all talking about the actual physical instrument called the "cross" that he died on. This can be understood by both reading the reference in context of the scripture, and further by reading it in the original language. The "translators" are the ones who added the word "cross"..... It was in reference to his sacrifice etc., not the actual physical cross.



Come on “ldsfaqs” your comments here are very polarizing. I agree that many in the bloggernacle are just grinding out their anger, but this is clearly a cross on a temple which the church has clearly taught against the use of crosses since its very beginning. Mormons have not just "generally" avoided it, this is the first cross I have ever seen on any Mormon building, I certainly did not expect to see it on a temple regardless of how subtle it might be. It makes sense, Rome has allot of Catholics, however is the church trying to mainstreaming to much?

Even though it is a subtle cross on the front door and not replacing Moroni on top the spire, would hardliners like Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie approve?

"In succeeding centuries, the churches which came into being through an intermingling of pagan concepts with the true apostolic Christianity developed the practice of using symbolic crosses in the architecture of their buildings and jewelry. . . All this is inharmonious with the quiet spirit of worship and reverence that should attend a true Christian's remembrance of our Lord's sufferings and death". (Mormon Doctrine p.172)



Paganism on the temple

http://www.mormonoutreach.org/pagan_and ... ymbols.php

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:33 pm 
1st Quorum of Seventy

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:49 pm 
God
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No problem, mktavish.

In a similar vein, a local non-denominational chapel, where Catholic Mass is said daily, has a victorious Jesus with hands outstretched, behind the altar. The only crucifix to be seen is a tiny one on the altar. It is difficult to identify with the suffering Jesus, who understands our pains, in such an environment. And the population that that chapel serves would profit from that perspective. It is probably Mormon "offense" which gave rise to such a compromise, which offends Catholics. Even the stations of the Cross are in tiny closed cabinets, which are opened in preparation for Mass.

There isn't even a a large crucifix which could be moved to behind the altar also in preparation for Mass.

:cry: What makes Catholics think we have to bend over backwards in order to avoid offending LDS? (Rhetorical question)

Of course we are cannibals. Get over it! I take Jesus into my body, and am strengthened to become a member of the body of Christ on earth.

Grr!

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:58 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 2335
Mittens wrote:
Mktavish wrote:
Oh I get it ... the mormon aversion to the cross, is because they are vampires???

Did anybody notice the side advertisement if you follow that second link for temple in Rome?

It said " We are adopted by god not born to a heavenly father and mother"

So would that mean we are not created by god? Hmmm it seems the so called "christians" are changeing their toon also.


notice how we are children by adoption only not literal children of God


• Ephesians 1:5
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

• Galatians 4:5
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

• Romans 8:15
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

• Romans 8:23
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

• Romans 9:4
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


More "Christian" Bible misrepresentation......

Yes, the scriptures teach that we are "adopted" children of the Father.... FYI, in SPIRIT AND FLESH.
Christ is the only one to be "Only Begotten OF the Father".
We are still God's "spiritual" Children.... And through Christ's resurrection and atonement we becometh son's and daughters of the Most High.

Sure, we know we will be adopted.... Of course. Christ is the ONLY SON of the Father to be BORN OF HIS FLESH!!!
Guess what "only begotten son" means???

Hello, it take 2 DNA strands to create a child. One was Mary's and the other was the Fathers, and it occurred through the administration of the Holy Ghost AND the Father's Power, just as the Bible states. FYI, that's not "sex". So don't go trying to pervert early LDS leaders words when they were debunking the "Christian" teaching that Christ was born of the Holy Ghost and not the Father and not the Son of the Father.

Science can get someone pregnant without sex..... Why can't God through the Holy Ghost do so with Mary begetting the Christ??? Hey, and guess what, she was a Virgin and had been with no man. Hello..... HOLY GHOST!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:04 am 
God

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 2335
Mittens wrote:


Hey Ms/Mr bigotry..... Why don't you learn some TRUTH for a change???

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... DS_Temples

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... voo_Temple


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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:28 am 
Bishop
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:39 pm
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Location: Norwich Stake of Zion, Englanchestshire.
ldsfaqs wrote:

More "Christian" Bible misrepresentation......

Yes, the scriptures teach that we are "adopted" children of the Father.... FYI, in SPIRIT AND FLESH.
Christ is the only one to be "Only Begotten OF the Father".
We are still God's "spiritual" Children.... And through Christ's resurrection and atonement we becometh son's and daughters of the Most High.

Sure, we know we will be adopted.... Of course. Christ is the ONLY SON of the Father to be BORN OF HIS FLESH!!!
Guess what "only begotten son" means???

Hello, it take 2 DNA strands to create a child. One was Mary's and the other was the Fathers, and it occurred through the administration of the Holy Ghost AND the Father's Power, just as the Bible states. FYI, that's not "sex". So don't go trying to pervert early LDS leaders words when they were debunking the "Christian" teaching that Christ was born of the Holy Ghost and not the Father and not the Son of the Father.

Science can get someone pregnant without sex..... Why can't God through the Holy Ghost do so with Mary begetting the Christ??? Hey, and guess what, she was a Virgin and had been with no man. Hello..... HOLY GHOST!!!


How did God extract his own semen? - He didn't speed up his factory did he???
There you have it... No Sex. - It was Magic, or Masturbation and a Holy turkey baster.

Littlenipper wrote:
Satan reigns over the earth. When Adam and Eve sinned, they became the children of satan. One must be redeemed/saved in order to become a child of God. The Moromon concept seems to be that God begat spirit babies who would be in fact His children; however, that would also make them Gods and perfect as their Father. This is not the case. Man is a created being who has a body, soul and spirit (God breathed -- not begotten). Man was created perfect but had the ability to choose to become evil. God cannot become evil. When Adam and Eve choose evil, they became like satan ---- corrupted and satan's ward. The only way man can get back to God is through adoption by way of the Redeemer by placing their faith in His power ---- not trying to rely on one's own (which is why Adam and Eve sinned in the 1st place ------- See Genesis (EAT THIS and you will BECOME like God).


Good point nipples, But you haven't addressed the fact that God gave them a commandment before they had the ability to know it was evil not to obey, and all that has been discussed on another thread -this is about crosses and temples.

In my old ward there is a very subtle pattern in the woodwork of the pulpit, -+T+- it looks like it has been designed to look like 3 crosses.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:41 am 
God

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 2335
PrickKicker wrote:
How did God extract his own semen? - He didn't speed up his factory did he???
There you have it... No Sex. - It was Magic, or Masturbation and a Holy turkey baster.


And there you have it...... The perverted mock and profain the sacred to nourish their bigotry.

God doesn't have "semen" slimball.... He is spirit and matter perfected.
Resurrected bodies don't have BLOOD!!!

Scientifically speaking, spirit and matter is Energy and Matter combined to the most minute particals of essence.
DNA is not seen by the naked eye, yet it exists.

The Holy Ghost is spirit.... It's able to enter into man, and yet spirit still has form.

Don't blame us for your Godlessness and perversion....

Further, the Bible is clear..... Yet the "Christians" ignore what the words actually say and mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:16 am 
Elder
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PrickKicker wrote:
In my old ward there is a very subtle pattern in the woodwork of the pulpit, -+T+- it looks like it has been designed to look like 3 crosses.


You mean like this?

Image

The "Triple Tau" is an important Masonic symbol, it (like Mormonism) has nothing to do with Christianity.


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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:39 am 
Bishop
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Posts: 480
Location: Norwich Stake of Zion, Englanchestshire.
ldsfaqs wrote:
And there you have it...... The perverted mock and profain the sacred to nourish their bigotry.
God doesn't have "semen" slimball.... He is spirit and matter perfected.
Resurrected bodies don't have BLOOD!!!
Scientifically speaking, spirit and matter is Energy and Matter combined to the most minute particals of essence.
DNA is not seen by the naked eye, yet it exists.
The Holy Ghost is spirit.... It's able to enter into man, and yet spirit still has form.
Don't blame us for your Godlessness and perversion....
Further, the Bible is clear..... Yet the "Christians" ignore what the words actually say and mean.


I am interested in where you get your doctrine from... Or are you making it up because you don't actually know?
Please consider the following questions...

What makes God a 'Man' ?
What is the purpose of genitalia in the eternities?
What is the use of Gods testicles if he created spirit children from intelligence's gathered, Molded Adam from clay and Jesus from DNA?
I heard that there was a Mormon theory that never made it to doctrine, that claimed anyone who doesn't make it to Godhood becomes gender-less. (The 'Smooth' Doctrine)

Don't hide your lack of knowledge by misdirection hiding behind the its to sacred excuse...
I may be making light of your theories but there is danger, where people hide away from answering questions and get angry when asked it normally means they are...

1 Don't know.
2 Hiding something.
3 Are afraid their abuser will find out and punish them.

Regards
Slimeball
:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:11 am 
God
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Mittens wrote:
http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/kyiv/gallery/download.php?id=6439 Temple in Kyiev

http://discoveringgrace.wordpress.com/2 ... on-temple/ Rome Temple with Cross

President Hinckley said to him: “‘I do not wish to give offense to any of my Christian colleagues who use the cross on the steeples of their cathedrals and at the altars of their chapels, who wear it on their vestments, and imprint it on their books and other literature. But for us, the cross is the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the Living Christ.’” (“The Symbol of Christ,” New Era, Apr. 1990, 4.)

Joseph Fielding Smith – “To many, like the writer, such a custom is repugnant and contrary to the true worship of our Redeemer. Why should we bow down before a cross or use it as a symbol? Because our Savior died on the cross, the wearing of crosses is to most Latter-day Saints in very poor taste and inconsistent to our worship.” (Answers to Gospel Questions 4:17;)

ummm...didn't see a cross on either of those buildings...especially an intentional crucifix.....so Hinckley/JFS quote is still consistent.
and yes, it would be liking meeting Jackie Kennedy and wearing a little sniper-rifle pin on one's lapel.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:29 am 
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subgenius wrote:
it would be liking meeting Jackie Kennedy and wearing a little sniper-rifle pin on one's lapel.


So your comparing JFK to Jesus?

So it's not just the 'Beetles', 'Oasis' and 'Robbie Williams' Who think they are bigger than Jesus.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosses on LDS temple
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:34 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
ldsfaqs wrote:

God doesn't have "semen" slimball.... He is spirit and matter perfected.
Resurrected bodies don't have BLOOD!!!



So when the Church's doctrine is that Mary conceived Jesus 'naturally'. How can that be done without semen yet still be called 'natural'?

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