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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:57 pm 
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OK Tobin, check out geologist Russel C. Hussey's find of Michigan's fossil whales.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:04 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
OK Tobin, check out geologist Russel C. Hussey's find of Michigan's fossil whales.
I am not Tobin, but:

from http://www.sentex.net/~tcc/michwls.html:
Quote:
Michigan's Fossil Whales
The discovery of fossil whale bones in Michigan has been a source of some embarrassment for the conventional geologic story of the history of the Great Lakes region, and the notion that the area has remained above sea level for 290 million years since the end of the Pennsylvanian period, as whale fossils are obviously evidence that the land was submerged beneath the sea.

Whaaaat? 290 million years?

Before, after, or during the global flood?

It would be better for You to read Your references before cite them...

at least the first paragraph!

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- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:23 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
Yes, that's true, but I don't think that applied to the sea creatures, or those that could survive in the seas such as amphibians, etc. So, if there were some land animals who were not on the ark, or at least led to a place other than the "face of the earth," possibly a place with high mountains that weren't covered by water, then they would have been destroyed.


What part about the Bible saying "I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.” (NIV Gen 7-4) suggests God didn't mean "every living creature"? You posit a mountain top survival except "The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits." (NIV Gen 7-20).

You further argue that sea life lived but "Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark." (NIV Gen 7-21-24) That's a lot of redundancy to leave caveats when it should be assumed that only Noah and the Ark animals survived.

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:24 pm 
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ludwigm wrote:
gdemetz wrote:
OK Tobin, check out geologist Russel C. Hussey's find of Michigan's fossil whales.
I am not Tobin, but:

from http://www.sentex.net/~tcc/michwls.html:
Quote:
Michigan's Fossil Whales
The discovery of fossil whale bones in Michigan has been a source of some embarrassment for the conventional geologic story of the history of the Great Lakes region, and the notion that the area has remained above sea level for 290 million years since the end of the Pennsylvanian period, as whale fossils are obviously evidence that the land was submerged beneath the sea.

Whaaaat? 290 million years?

Before, after, or during the global flood?

It would be better for You to read Your references before cite them...

at least the first paragraph!


I'm going with the Hungarian on this one.

_________________
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:36 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
There is so much evidence that it is almost undeniable. The are literally hundreds of pieces of evidence, not the least of which bones of whales found 440 feet, 500 feet, and even 600 feet above sea level.


I don't deny that. But seas dry up as plate tectonic movements change the level of bodies of water over millions of years. I lived in an area that is currently 5000+ feet above sea level that was part of an inland sea 200 million years ago.

_________________
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:24 am 
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Bond James Bond wrote:
gdemetz wrote:
if there were some land animals who were not on the ark ... they would have been destroyed.
...the Bible saying "I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.


Image
I've censored it for Your over-sensitive eyes.

The original caricature can be shown here.

BTW
I was banned two weeks because of breasts and/or genitals.

... and nobody missed me ...

_________________
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:16 am 
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ludwigm wrote:


This article is a load of hogswoller. Harrington is quoted as carbon dating the whale bones to be less than a thousand years old. A thousand years old??? That means that the great lakes have suddenly gone from salt water to fresh in less than a thousand years.

I suggest reading the following: http://greatlakesgazette.wordpress.com/ ... eat-lakes/

It's all about going whale watching on Lake Michigan

But please pay attention to the date of the article.

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:26 am 
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bcuzbcuz wrote:
ludwigm wrote:
This article is a load of hogswoller.


Please tell it to gdemetz, it is his reference...
I've detected only the 290 million years expression.

_________________
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:42 am 
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The scientific evidence means nothing. Either you believe in supernatural events or you do not. If you believe in supernatural events then evidence or the interpretation of evidence is unreliable because we have no idea how a supernatural event manifest. If however you don't believe in God and rest your faith on the knowledge of man then feel free to interpret any trace evidence anyway you wish. But for those who do tow the line with scientific projections back in time you should be careful just how factually you make your case. Because any day could bring new evidence which would overturn what you now feel is fact. But for those of us who have faith in the power of God we look forward to the coming of our Lord. For those who deny Him it will not be a good day. But have your fun until then. My faith is strong enough to withstand any and all of the scientific theories of man.

Since the late 1700's when the age of naturalism started man has formed a foundation of scientific theories. Many of these theories rest on assumptions which can not be proven or disproven. So all of science rest on assumptions of faith. So we stand on equal ground even though the average science type will never admit it. They all stand around and declare facts when they are indeed standing in a murky swamp with no foundation.

Take for instance the decay rates of radioactive elements. At one time these were thought of as fixed and unchanging. This led to the theory of dating using radioactive elements. But today we find that decay rates do change. So the assumption was in error. But the people who embrace these dates will not let go of what they consider fact. They refuse to even consider that is is possible that decay rates in the past were vastly different than today. Those reading this comment will ask for proof of what I say but I will offer no proof. Instead I will offer this piece of scripture.

Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

So these men with Jesus standing before them and witnessing miracles would not change from the carnal nature or natural nature of men. So how can some believe when there is not a Messiah standing before them working miracles? And even then many would not follow but instead will embrace the world even today. So if the Son of the Father could not change the heart of man how can I form an argument that would make a difference. I can not. But I do have hope that all see the light and follow that light one day. Nothing is impossible with the Lord.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:45 am 
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ludwigm wrote:
Please tell it to gdemetz, it is his reference...
I've detected only the 290 million years expression.


Sorry and I will.

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:50 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
OK Tobin, check out geologist Russel C. Hussey's find of Michigan's fossil whales.


Why not check out "LAke Michigan Whale Watching" http://www.lakemichiganwhales.com/

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And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:00 pm 
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Franktalk wrote:
The scientific evidence means nothing.


That's right. No point in letting the facts get in the way.

Quote:
Either you believe in supernatural events or you do not. If you believe in supernatural events then evidence or the interpretation of evidence is unreliable because we have no idea how a supernatural event manifest.


Exactly. We have no way to know how the Hindu Gods did all those wonderful things.

Quote:
If however you don't believe in God and rest your faith on the knowledge of man then feel free to interpret any trace evidence anyway you wish.


Precisely. We should put our faith in the only true Gods of Hinduism, and let go of man-made knowledge we get from things like the bible. Repent you heathens.

Quote:
My faith is strong enough to withstand any and all of the scientific theories of man.


And those theories of the bible, which I am sure you would agree are from men, and not from the only true Gods of Hinduism.

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:47 pm 
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Franktalk wrote:
Take for instance the decay rates of radioactive elements. At one time these were thought of as fixed and unchanging. This led to the theory of dating using radioactive elements. But today we find that decay rates do change. So the assumption was in error. But the people who embrace these dates will not let go of what they consider fact. They refuse to even consider that is is possible that decay rates in the past were vastly different than today. Those reading this comment will ask for proof of what I say but I will offer no proof. .


All things are simple when viewed with overly simplistic glasses. But from your posts it is not hard to summerize that what you disagree with far outdistances what you agree with. Calibration with carbon dating has been around for 50 years. The calibration makes the dating more accurate. Would you care to opine the opposite?

C14 dating is one tool, definitely not the only.

Do you travel a lot? Have you travelled and studied archaeology in Egypt and Turkey and Greece and Italy and Spain and Portugal and Germany and England. I have, and have myriads of photos from sites in these countries that add up to a very complete picture of Roman and Egyptian finds. Do you have finds or photos you would like to share that cover finds in the Sinai and Israel or Egypt or Jordania to verify your statement about historical accuracy of Biblical finds?

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:56 pm 
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bcuzbcuz wrote:
Do you travel a lot? Have you travelled and studied archaeology in Egypt and Turkey and Greece and Italy and Spain and Portugal and Germany and England. I have, and have myriads of photos from sites in these countries that add up to a very complete picture of Roman and Egyptian finds. Do you have finds or photos you would like to share that cover finds in the Sinai and Israel or Egypt or Jordania to verify your statement about historical accuracy of Biblical finds?


Be happy in your belief. If that is what floats your boat then so be it. I started laughing when you said "very complete".


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:10 am 
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Franktalk wrote:
Be happy in your belief. If that is what floats your boat then so be it. I started laughing when you said "very complete".


Have fun with my grammar. If ridicule is your main form of counter argument you are obviously very complete, almost perfect.

But I'll re-word my question for you. Do you ever travel to the countries of scripture you talk about? Or are you like the learned in Asimov's "Foundation Trilogy" who would rather read about the world around them than experience the world around them?

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:16 am 
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bcuzbcuz wrote:
Have fun with my grammar. If ridicule is your main form of counter argument you are obviously very complete, almost perfect.


Your grammar has nothing to do with it. The past has had many purges over time and much of our history is lost. So to claim some pictures you took on vacation gives you a complete idea of the past just seemed funny to me. I would suggest that you embrace the idea that much of the past can not be known because much of the history is just not available to us. What has made it through has been protected by some with agendas. Just do some research into book burning and fabricated history some time. So a picture of the past is made with what is available not with what actually happened. And don't trust scholars, they come in all flavors.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Yes, that's true FrankTalk, the scholars as well as scientists seem to come in all flavors, but in my opinion, if one truly calls himself a Christian, then one should trust in Christ, and if one says that he is a Christian and He truly believes in Christ, then he should also believe in Christs teachings. And, what did Christ teach? He taught that although earth and heaven may pass away, His words would all be fulfilled, and in that same paragraph He mentions the Noah and alludes to the great flood!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:25 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
Yes, that's true FrankTalk, the scholars as well as scientists seem to come in all flavors, but in my opinion, if one truly calls himself a Christian, then one should trust in Christ, and if one says that he is a Christian and He truly believes in Christ, then he should also believe in Christs teachings. And, what did Christ teach? He taught that although earth and heaven may pass away, His words would all be fulfilled, and in that same paragraph He mentions the Noah and alludes to the great flood!!!


Which Christ?
The one the Christian world revere's or the other one that Hinckley stated Mormon's follow?

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:36 am 
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Certainly not Apostate Christendom which is overwhelmed with ignorance and still believes in a 3 in 1 God, in which Christ prays to His same "substance," lands on Himself at His own baptism proclaiming that He is well pleased with Himself, and part of His "substance" knows when it will return again, but the other part doesn't!


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:37 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
Certainly not Apostate Christendom which is overwhelmed with ignorance and still believes in a 3 in 1 God, in which Christ prays to His same "substance," lands on Himself at His own baptism proclaiming that He is well pleased with Himself, and part of His "substance" knows when it will return again, but the other part doesn't!


Which Christ?
The one the Christian world revere's or the other one that Hinckley stated Mormon's follow?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:43 am 
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Google "scientific evidence for a global flood"!


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