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 Post subject: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:53 pm 
God

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One thing that I appreciate about the restoration is that it dispels the fairy tales of the dark ages, such as the one where God is supposedly everywhere, but no where in particular; the one where Adam just comes up from the dirt cartoon style; the one where there is a three-in-one God as if He were some type of vegetable soup; the one where one can just verbally confess and be saved forever; the one where a virgin conceives by herself and produces a God; the one where a person can be saved if his family pays enough indulgence, etc. etc. etc.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"
"And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:3-4


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:02 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
One thing that I appreciate about the restoration is that it dispels the fairy tales of the dark ages, such as the one where God is supposedly everywhere, but no where in particular; the one where Adam just comes up from the dirt cartoon style; the one where there is a three-in-one God as if He were some type of vegetable soup; the one where one can just verbally confess and be saved forever; the one where a virgin conceives by herself and produces a God; the one where a person can be saved if his family pays enough indulgence, etc. etc. etc.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"
"And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:3-4


Yeah, the 'Restoration' got rid of those twin relics of medieval barbarism: monotheism and monogamy.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:23 pm 
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Replace on set of fables for another... Pure win!

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:09 am 
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The churches doctrines are sound, and not in violation of natural law. The "miracles" recorded as scripture are explained in my "Light of Christ" writing.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:29 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
The churches doctrines are sound, and not in violation of natural law. The "miracles" recorded as scripture are explained in my "Light of Christ" writing.


Which ones?
A. The doctrines of Joseph Smith
B. the doctrines of today

Because they're different you know...

Which God were you meaning in the OP?
Heavenly Father
Jesus
Michael/Adam
All those other men who have now become Gods and have their own planets.

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:35 am 
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Ok so a corporeal omniscient, omnipotent, being does not violate natural laws (but who uses the light of christ to be omnipresent), but a spiritual omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient one does.

Is selling your daughter to Joseph for a guarantee of exaltation not an indulgence?

Got it!

Again, trading one set of fables for the other Pure Win!

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Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:05 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
One thing that I appreciate about the restoration is that it dispels the fairy tales of the dark ages, such as the one where God is supposedly everywhere, but no where in particular; the one where Adam just comes up from the dirt cartoon style; the one where there is a three-in-one God as if He were some type of vegetable soup; the one where one can just verbally confess and be saved forever; the one where a virgin conceives by herself and produces a God; the one where a person can be saved if his family pays enough indulgence, etc. etc. etc.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"
"And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:3-4


What about the fable that there was no death before 6000 years ago, or the fable that humanity, save 8 people, was wiped out by a global flood.

To say nothing of the new fables added by the Book of Abraham/Book of Mormon.

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:11 pm 
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The doctrines haven't changed. Read What Dr. Cleon Skowsen writes concerning the light of Christ. He makes no mention of some invisible everywhere, but nowhere in particular, being who uses it. These are the vast "seas" of intelligences, who are independent in "their on sphere," who honor (see D&C 29:36) and sustain God, because they choose to. However, if God would not be just, then He would cease to be God, as the Book of Mormon states. Why? Because these intelligences would no longer sustain Him, and His power would dissolve.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:20 pm 
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I think you guys have been reading too much atheists and anti Mormon propaganda. I have a suggestion. Try reading some scientific articles which present evidence of some of the things that you believe to be fables, such as the great flood. Selling? Try reading more of the true history of the LDS. Also, try reading the scriptures more, and, in particular, the words of Christ and His apostles, and see what He and they think of the OT writings which you consider to be fables.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:24 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
I think you guys have been reading too much atheists and anti Mormon propaganda. I have a suggestion. Try reading some scientific articles which present evidence of some of the things that you believe to be fables, such as the great flood. Selling? Try reading more of the true history of the LDS. Also, try reading the scriptures more, and, in particular, the words of Christ and His apostles, and see what He and they think of the OT writings which you consider to be fables.


So you think it's scientifically possible to get a pair of every species of animal on earth on a 350 ft long boat?

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:50 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
Try reading more of the true history of the LDS.



Where can this be found?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
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"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:51 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
The doctrines haven't changed.

:lol: Good one...

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:37 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
I think you guys have been reading too much atheists and anti Mormon propaganda.
...
OT writings which you consider to be fables.


Yes, I have been reading too much scriptures.

Leviticus 14 wrote:
4. Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
5. And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:
6. As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water:
7. And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.
16. And the priest shall dip his right finger in the oil that is in his left hand, and shall sprinkle of the oil with his finger seven times before the LORD:
17. And of the rest of the oil that is in his hand shall the priest put upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot, upon the blood of the trespass offering:
21. And if he be poor, and cannot get so much; then he shall take one lamb for a trespass offering to be waved, to make an atonement for him, and one tenth deal of fine flour mingled with oil for a meat offering, and a log of oil;
22. And two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, such as he is able to get; and the one shall be a sin offering, and the other a burnt offering.
23. And he shall bring them on the eighth day for his cleansing unto the priest, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, before the LORD.
24. And the priest shall take the lamb of the trespass offering, and the log of oil, and the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD:
25. And he shall kill the lamb of the trespass offering, and the priest shall take some of the blood of the trespass offering, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot:
26. Az olajból pedig töltsön a pap a papnak baltenyerére. And the priest shall pour of the oil into the palm of his own left hand:
27. And the priest shall sprinkle with his right finger some of the oil that is in his left hand seven times before the LORD:
28. And the priest shall put of the oil that is in his hand upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot, upon the place of the blood of the trespass offering:
49. And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
50. And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:
51. And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:
52. And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:
53. But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.
57. To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.


Obamacare? Ehm...

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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Is that you, Mr. President?! No, I don't think that it happened that way. Obviously, the sea creatures and some others weren't bothered too much by this flood, and I believe that the Lord led many other species to places where they could survive. There are a lot of accounts from many civilizations about a great flood, not to mention a lot of scientific evidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:06 pm 
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gdemetz,

If you are into geology read a book written by Lester King, it is called Wandering Continents and spreading sea floors. In the book he describes evidence of multiple earth wide floods. He seems to feel that the earth was smaller at one time and then expanded. Possibly from the internal heat. Some rock when made hot expands greatly. There is also evidence that the molten rock under the crust still has a great deal of water in it. A great read. He is not a religious guy but he follows the data. Many ivory tower geologist hate him. Which makes it even more important to read his book.

Frank


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Thanks for that information FrankTalk!


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:54 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
Is that you, Mr. President?! No, I don't think that it happened that way. Obviously, the sea creatures and some others weren't bothered too much by this flood, and I believe that the Lord led many other species to places where they could survive. There are a lot of accounts from many civilizations about a great flood, not to mention a lot of scientific evidence.


A global flood that killed everything (Gen 7:4) "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to arain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth."

There isn't "a lot" of scientific evidence for a global flood. There is evidence for regional floods in places like Mesopotamia where the Tigris and Euphrates tended to flood from time to time.

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Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

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I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:03 pm 
God

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Yes, that's true, but I don't think that applied to the sea creatures, or those that could survive in the seas such as amphibians, etc. So, if there were some land animals who were not on the ark, or at least led to a place other than the "face of the earth," possibly a place with high mountains that weren't covered by water, then they would have been destroyed.

See my posts under "Glass and Steel in the BofM, why a problem."


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Bond James Bond wrote:
There isn't "a lot" of scientific evidence for a global flood. There is evidence for regional floods in places like Mesopotamia where the Tigris and Euphrates tended to flood from time to time.
I agree. There isn't much if any evidence for a world-wide flood. I think this is one of those things you take on faith mostly because I really am very incredulous about it. The belief in a world-wide flood is virtually unsupportable, but given that God formed the Earth - it is possible. There is also a need in Mormon doctrine for it since the Earth will be a Celestial Kingdom and must go through the same processes that we must go through including baptism. That is the only reason I believe it is plausible however. Otherwise, I'd side with a local flood story as being the root of the Biblical (and other sourced) world-wide flood stories/myths.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:28 pm 
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There is so much evidence that it is almost undeniable. The are literally hundreds of pieces of evidence, not the least of which bones of whales found 440 feet, 500 feet, and even 600 feet above sea level.


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 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:30 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
There is so much evidence that it is almost undeniable. The are literally hundreds of pieces of evidence, not the least of which bones of whales found 440 feet, 500 feet, and even 600 feet above sea level.
You keep saying that gdemetz, but you need to cite real scientific articles and evidence. I think when you go looking, you'll find an appalling lack of anything credible.


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