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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:05 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
Who knows, it's possible that their is some creature that would account for some of those "Nessie" sightings. However, the point I was making is that the OBE's are a much deeper personal experience.


People had deeply personal, spiritual experiences based on the words of a General Authority of the Church, when he articulated true tales of his experiences during World War 2 and playing in the Major Baseball League. Sadly these experiences were generated from lies.

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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:59 pm 
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In your opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:18 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
In your opinion.


It's not opinion. This GA was lying even though he was the most inspiring GA at that time.

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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:20 am 
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Themis wrote:
gdemetz wrote:
In your opinion.


It's not opinion. This GA was lying even though he was the most inspiring GA at that time.


The GA in question was shown to have told lies that generated deeply spiritual reactions in significant numbers of members.

I sat next to him once at a Conference where he spoke for forty minutes. There were very few dry eyes in the congregation by the time he had finished. After the conference people were eulogising about how the spirit had moved them like never before because of this GA's real life experiences. Those real life experiences turned out to be lies.

When those lies were discovered the senior Church Leadership kept it quiet. It was only when it became public knowledge thanks to an intrepid reporter that they took action and made him 'emeritus' (sacked).

Gdemetz, you may wish to research "Heartsell", a product of Bonneville International (a Church owned company).

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:30 pm 
God

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Be specific. What exact lies are you referring to?!?


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:54 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
Be specific. What exact lies are you referring to?!?


Good god man! He claimed to have had his best buddy in the military die in his arms. The buddy was STILL LIVING when he told this story!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Who claimed that?


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:29 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
Who claimed that?


Paul Dunn

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~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Yes, and he was released also from his service, which is very unusual for a man of his position. Health reasons were cited, but to those who know the case more intimately, it is obvious that the real reason was actions contrary to the standards that were expected for a man in his position. His is not the only case of release or disfellowship, or even excommunication.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:13 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
Yes, and he was released also from his service, which is very unusual for a man of his position. Health reasons were cited, but to those who know the case more intimately, it is obvious that the real reason was actions contrary to the standards that were expected for a man in his position. His is not the only case of release or disfellowship, or even excommunication.


So now you know who is being discussed in the previous posts.

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~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:28 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
Yes, and he was released also from his service, which is very unusual for a man of his position. Health reasons were cited, but to those who know the case more intimately, it is obvious that the real reason was actions contrary to the standards that were expected for a man in his position. His is not the only case of release or disfellowship, or even excommunication.


That's not the issue. We know the details, you didn't. Now you seem to know some. The issue though is he used lies that generated deep spiritual experiences for thousands who listened to his stories.

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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:29 pm 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
Yes, and he was released also from his service, which is very unusual for a man of his position. Health reasons were cited, but to those who know the case more intimately, it is obvious that the real reason was actions contrary to the standards that were expected for a man in his position. His is not the only case of release or disfellowship, or even excommunication.


No, he wasn't released from his service in an unusual way.
He was made emeritus, same as Elder Jensen has just been and the same as numerous other General Authorities.

He wasn't released.
He wasn't disfellowshipped.
He wasn't excommunicated.

Now back the point that people experienced deep spiritual, moving, feelings brought on by the spirit as a result of what we now know we're flat out lies.

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:32 pm 
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just me wrote:
gdemetz wrote:
Yes, and he was released also from his service, which is very unusual for a man of his position. Health reasons were cited, but to those who know the case more intimately, it is obvious that the real reason was actions contrary to the standards that were expected for a man in his position. His is not the only case of release or disfellowship, or even excommunication.


So now you know who is being discussed in the previous posts.


Gdemetz was identified as a troll some weeks ago.
I have seen nothing since that has made me think otherwise.

However, he seems to ask questions (deliberately perhaps?) to which the answers are embarrassing to the Church.

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:20 am 
God

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Regardless of the circumstances, the church gives you a release if you no longer can or want to do the job for the position! Paul Dunn wanted a release, and health reasons were sited, but I think everyone knows the real reason he wanted the release, and he got the release! Even an anti Mormon site mentions the release of Dunn! Check out "Dunn, in the Name of God." Who are the trolls now?!?:


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:32 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
Regardless of the circumstances, the church gives you a release if you no longer can or want to do the job for the position! Paul Dunn wanted a release, and health reasons were sited, but I think everyone knows the real reason he wanted the release, and he got the release! Even an anti Mormon site mentions the release of Dunn! Check out "Dunn, in the Name of God." Who are the trolls now?!?:



No. Once again you are incorrect.

Quote:
Emeritus General Authority
September 30, 1989 – January 9, 1998
Called by Ezra Taft Benson


I think the key phrase is 'Called by...'

Quote:
e·mer·i·tus/iˈmeritəs/
Adjective:
(of the former holder of an office, esp. a professor) Having retired but retaining his title as an honor


And, at the time of his move into emeritus status (for age and health reasons not as a form of punishment), Paul H. Dunn was even given a unanimous sustaining vote and a vote of thanks for his faithful and effective service.

Now if you are suggesting that he was released for reasons other than age or health then you are accusing the then First Counsellor in the FP (GBH) of lying to the membership of the Church. You sure you want to throw Hinckley under the bus to defend Dunn?

Quote:
Today, in consideration of factors of age and health, it is proposed that we sustain the following as Emeritus members of the First Quorum of the Seventy with a vote of thanks for their faithful and effective service: Elders Theodore M. Burton, Robert L. Simpson, Victor L. Brown, Paul H. Dunn, J. Thomas Fyans, Wm. Grant Bangerter, Royden G. Derrick, and Rex C. Reeve.

Those in favor, please manifest it...

...President Benson, it appears that the voting has been unanimous in the affirmative.
(GBH Conference 1989)


Your fingers seem to be typing posts that your brain hasn't authorised for publication...

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:44 am 
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No, you are wrong! Even the anti article states that he was released! Everyone is released when they are excused from their office in the church, regardless of the circumstances! When one in requested to take a position in the church, then they are said to be "called." to that position!


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:26 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
No, you are wrong! Even the anti article states that he was released! Everyone is released when they are excused from their office in the church, regardless of the circumstances! When one in requested to take a position in the church, then they are said to be "called." to that position!


I repeat...
Now if you are suggesting that he was released for reasons other than age or health then you are accusing the then First Counsellor in the FP (GBH) of lying to the membership of the Church. You sure you want to throw Hinckley under the bus to defend Dunn?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:59 pm 
God

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Yea, I think he was let off easy. I won't, however, object to him just being allowed to go like that because I won't object to mercy being shown. However, you guys are right. What he did was especially bad for a man in his high office. It definitely had a negative effect on the image that latter day saints are supposed to uphold! Having said that, I would just refer you to my article here entitled, "Prophets and apostles not Perfect."


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 6:02 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
Yea, I think he was let off easy. I won't, however, object to him just being allowed to go like that because I won't object to mercy being shown. However, you guys are right. What he did was especially bad for a man in his high office. It definitely had a negative effect on the image that latter day saints are supposed to uphold! Having said that, I would just refer you to my article here entitled, "Prophets and apostles not Perfect."


Were not suggesting that they should be perfect. The issue you are avoiding is that thousands of members had deep spiritual experiences that were generated by lies.

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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:46 pm 
God

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Themis wrote:
gdemetz wrote:
Yea, I think he was let off easy. I won't, however, object to him just being allowed to go like that because I won't object to mercy being shown. However, you guys are right. What he did was especially bad for a man in his high office. It definitely had a negative effect on the image that latter day saints are supposed to uphold! Having said that, I would just refer you to my article here entitled, "Prophets and apostles not Perfect."


Were not suggesting that they should be perfect. The issue you are avoiding is that thousands of members had deep spiritual experiences that were generated by lies.


Perhaps the Holy Ghost isn't perfect... :lol:

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Blasphemy or Biblical?
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 10:10 am 
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Drifting wrote:

Perhaps the Holy Ghost isn't perfect... :lol:


Perhaps the HG is not what LDS think it is. :eek:

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