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 Post subject: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:04 am 
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...in the UK.

In 2010 the Church spent £35,931,000 of donated monies in some of the following ways:

£11.6 million on staff wages of which:
£4.2 million for staff related to the 'provision of worship facilities' - which includes Temple President salaries.
£3.2 million for staff related to 'religious education'.
£3.4 million for staff related to 'genealogy work'.
£0.5 million for staff related to 'missionary work' - which I think is almost exclusively Mission President salaries.
£0.25 million for staff related to 'community projects'.

So, a third of all money donated by members in the UK goes towards paying staff salaries.
This does not include the travel costs for these 'staff' which amounted to a further £1.3 million in expenditure.

Let's look at how those numbers of staff (including Directors) are split:
Teaching Function - 27 people
Office Administration - 227 people
Building Cleaners - 174 people (who have subsequently been replaced by f.o.c. member cleaners)

That's a total of 428 people (down 28 from the previous year) equating to an average salary of £27,168. Compared to the UK national average for that year which was £20,801.

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:42 am 
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Glad to see the Church pays well there.

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:21 am 
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There are six UK missions, so I guess that works out to 83,000 pounds per mission president, plus furnished home, car, and other expenses paid? Not too shabby.

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:23 am 
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Buffalo wrote:
There are six UK missions, so I guess that works out to 83,000 pounds per mission president, plus furnished home, car, and other expenses paid? Not too shabby.

There is no evidence that these funds are exclusive to a mission president, nor that those funds are exclusive of the money spent for "home, car, etc.."

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:31 am 
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subgenius wrote:
Buffalo wrote:
There are six UK missions, so I guess that works out to 83,000 pounds per mission president, plus furnished home, car, and other expenses paid? Not too shabby.

There is no evidence that these funds are exclusive to a mission president, nor that those funds are exclusive of the money spent for "home, car, etc.."


The mission home is provided for them, at the very least.

What other mission personnel are there on the payroll? Missionaries provide auxiliary function work for free.

Did you serve a mission, subgenius?

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:26 am 
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Buffalo wrote:
The mission home is provided for them, at the very least.

again, the cost of which has neither been included or excluded from the amount you have assumed, nor has that amount been proven to actually be distributed in the manner by which Drift admittedly "assumes"...which in this context, is another word for "i guess".

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:34 am 
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subgenius wrote:
Buffalo wrote:
The mission home is provided for them, at the very least.

again, the cost of which has neither been included or excluded from the amount you have assumed, nor has that amount been proven to actually be distributed in the manner by which Drift admittedly "assumes"...which in this context, is another word for "i guess".


So you didn't serve a mission?

Because if you had, you might know that the homes provided for mission presidents aren't cheap. My presidents' residence could best be described as "palatial."

If the church is, as you're suggesting, spending money on church real estate but claiming it as money going to staff, then they're engaged in accounting fraud. Is that the argument you really want to go with?

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:55 am 
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Buffalo wrote:

So you didn't serve a mission?

Because if you had, you might know that the homes provided for mission presidents aren't cheap. My presidents' residence could best be described as "palatial."

If the church is, as you're suggesting, spending money on church real estate but claiming it as money going to staff, then they're engaged in accounting fraud. Is that the argument you really want to go with?

Our mission home was a 3 story + basement home in one of the most exclusive neighborhoods in Budapest.

As my mission was concluding, the church was constructing a huge multipurpose building for the mission president to live in, located just off of Moscow Square, one of the busiest mass transit hubs in the city, where real estate is at a premium. (I don't think they call it Moscow Square anymore though...Ludwigm might know what it was renamed.)

Of course the president (whom I liked very much, and still do) had a maid and a cook.

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:16 am 
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aranyborju wrote:
Buffalo wrote:

So you didn't serve a mission?

Because if you had, you might know that the homes provided for mission presidents aren't cheap. My presidents' residence could best be described as "palatial."

If the church is, as you're suggesting, spending money on church real estate but claiming it as money going to staff, then they're engaged in accounting fraud. Is that the argument you really want to go with?

Our mission home was a 3 story + basement home in one of the most exclusive neighborhoods in Budapest.

As my mission was concluding, the church was constructing a huge multipurpose building for the mission president to live in, located just off of Moscow Square, one of the busiest mass transit hubs in the city, where real estate is at a premium. (I don't think they call it Moscow Square anymore though...Ludwigm might know what it was renamed.)

Of course the president (whom I liked very much, and still do) had a maid and a cook.


My presidents had servants too. I don't know if they payed them out of pocket or if the church payed their salaries.

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Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:02 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Buffalo wrote:
There are six UK missions, so I guess that works out to 83,000 pounds per mission president, plus furnished home, car, and other expenses paid? Not too shabby.

There is no evidence that these funds are exclusive to a mission president, nor that those funds are exclusive of the money spent for "home, car, etc.."


Who else receives a salary out of tithing funds who is classed as working in the area of 'missionary work'?

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:04 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Buffalo wrote:
The mission home is provided for them, at the very least.

again, the cost of which has neither been included or excluded from the amount you have assumed, nor has that amount been proven to actually be distributed in the manner by which Drift admittedly "assumes"...which in this context, is another word for "i guess".


Nope, travel and subsistence is listed separately.
So yes, it's 100% salary.

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:24 am 
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Drifting wrote:
Nope, travel and subsistence is listed separately.
So yes, it's 100% salary.

yet your OP clearly states...
"- which I think is almost exclusively Mission President salaries." (emphasis mine)

so, now we have "which i think is almost" graduated up to "So yes, its 100% salary"

understandably, i am skeptical of not only your motivations but also your sincerity.

Perhaps now is a good time to ask for your OP references/links, yes?

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:29 am 
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subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:
Nope, travel and subsistence is listed separately.
So yes, it's 100% salary.

yet your OP clearly states...
"- which I think is almost exclusively Mission President salaries." (emphasis mine)

so, now we have "which i think is almost" graduated up to "So yes, its 100% salary"

understandably, i am skeptical of not only your motivations but also your sincerity.

Perhaps now is a good time to ask for your OP references/links, yes?


http://direct.companieshouse.gov.uk/

Fill your boots.

And also...

Quote:
Who else receives a salary out of tithing funds who is classed as working in the area of 'missionary work'?

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:26 am 
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Drifting wrote:

Who else receives a salary out of tithing funds who is classed as working in the area of 'missionary work'?


Subgenius doesn't know because he lacked the moral character to serve a mission, as commanded by the Lord and his most high inquisitor, the President of the Corporation of the COJCOLDS.

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We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Drifting wrote:

link is password protected...got anything accessible?

Quote:
Fill your boots.

sure need ''em to wade through your posts


Quote:
Who else receives a salary out of tithing funds who is classed as working in the area of 'missionary work'

your OP does not say salary....you stated "for staff"...and barring you actually posting the references for your OP, we can all just assume you omitted the costs associated for car leases, and not to mention that the MTC has volunteers and employees

So, now that we have established that MTC teachers are among the "staff related" we can forgo the formality of you actually conceding this point, surely you must be tired from having to do it so often.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Buffalo wrote:
Drifting wrote:

Who else receives a salary out of tithing funds who is classed as working in the area of 'missionary work'?


Subgenius doesn't know because he lacked the moral character to serve a mission, as commanded by the Lord and his most high inquisitor, the President of the Corporation of the COJCOLDS.


now you just look foolish

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:58 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
your OP does not say salary....


You are quite correct.
My OP says 'wages' which most people would recognise as similar in an identical way as 'salary'.

Anymore hairs you'd like to split?

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:01 pm 
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subgenius wrote:

now you just look foolish


So you didn't serve a mission, right?

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We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:46 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:

link is password protected...got anything accessible?


Now you know how members feel when they ask to see the Church's financial statements...

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Drifting wrote:

Anymore hairs you'd like to split?

just this one
"staff related to 'missionary work' - which I think is almost exclusively Mission President salaries."

and it turns out that it is not "exclusively", is it?

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Drifting wrote:
Now you know how members feel when they ask to see the Church's financial statements...

why bother asking when you post such great information yourself....
for example
"staff related to 'missionary work' - which I think is almost exclusively Mission President salaries."

how "you think" could not be better illuminated than by the actual facts which contradict you.
:biggrin:

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