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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:41 am 
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Themis wrote:
I see as usual no substance and just an attack on another person. This is the sign one has lost.


Lost what? Lost the truth? One can not lose something that one never had. How many of us can say we have known the truth? Many say it but I suspect few have really known the truth. Truth speaks for itself. Arguments between people mean little. Why do you place such worth on something so worthless as a good argument? Do you really think a skilled liar can create truth?


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:40 am 
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Franktalk wrote:
Themis wrote:
I see as usual no substance and just an attack on another person. This is the sign one has lost.


Lost what?


It's a sign one cannot deal with the issues and starts to only post attacks on the person.

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Lost the truth? One can not lose something that one never had. How many of us can say we have known the truth?


Truth is only in the proposition. I suspect this may be something you don't understand at the moment. You think certain propositions are true, but we disagree on some of those propositions. You don't want to deal with evidence outside of your internal feelings, emotions, thoughts to see if they hold up.

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Why do you place such worth on something so worthless as a good argument?


It's a world better then a bad argument such as some of the ones you bring up like Noah's flood being global.

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Do you really think a skilled liar can create truth?


Again truth is only in the proposition. Skilled liars don't have to lie, just as people who think lying is wrong don't always tell the truth. I gave an example of your dishonesty in a recent post.

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:54 am 
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Themis wrote:
Truth is only in the proposition. I suspect this may be something you don't understand at the moment. You think certain propositions are true, but we disagree on some of those propositions. You don't want to deal with evidence outside of your internal feelings, emotions, thoughts to see if they hold up.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

To disagree with you is bliss.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Franktalk wrote:
Themis wrote:
Truth is only in the proposition. I suspect this may be something you don't understand at the moment. You think certain propositions are true, but we disagree on some of those propositions. You don't want to deal with evidence outside of your internal feelings, emotions, thoughts to see if they hold up.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

To disagree with you is bliss.


Would you agree that truth is only in the proposition?

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:09 pm 
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Just what is the Kingdom of God? I am not sure but I suspect it is better than this place. Although some feel this place is just fine. It is my belief that they are settling because of the unknown. This is a view based on safety. For those who will take that leap of faith into the unknown I think there is a huge reward. For those who wish to stay I think they will stay. I wonder if how we treat fear is really the driving force on our path. If we love God more than we fear Him then we look forward to seeing Him. But if we fear the unknown then our own fear and not love drives us. We cling to what we know even in the face of a promise of something better. And when you consider that God allows for free will then those who deny Him He will not allow in His presence. The choice is ours. The fear is ours. We choose what to embrace. We choose what to hold as truth. We have many paths that we can take. All of this is supplied for us. We are born into this world of choices. If we embrace this world I think we stay here. If we seek another then doors are opened for us.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:38 pm 
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Let us look at these words:

Dan 2
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Can we seek the Kingdom of God? Sure we can and we can hold that faith in the Kingdom in our heart as well. But when do we actually step foot in that Kingdom?

It is my belief that the Kingdom already exist in heaven and one day it will also be set up on the earth. The Kings that are talked about in Dan 2:44 are in the last days. Probably in the last seven years as described in the Book of Revelation. It is my belief that we have been in the Kingdom of God and as we develop our spirit the spirit seeks to return home. Even though we really don't know what home is.

So just what are these things that mingle with the seed of men? Could it be the same mingling that occurred in Genesis?

Gen 6
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

It does say that they will return in verse 4. Does this mean that when the restrainer leaves that Angels will come again to the earth to make Nephilim? If this happens before the Kingdom is established on the earth then I guess the Kingdom is not here yet.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:01 pm 
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The kingdom of God is almost has the same meaning as the church. In fact the church has dormant provisions set up for the time when the saints will rule as a government, and those provisions include some non members.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:18 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
The kingdom of God is almost has the same meaning as the church. In fact the church has dormant provisions set up for the time when the saints will rule as a government, and those provisions include some non members.


There are many mysteries not revealed and the ones that are do not make a complete picture. This makes for a real interesting vision. Of course to me I am willing to wait and see what is all truth. But the quest for each piece of this most fascinating puzzle allows us to focus on God. I do believe that is the purpose. Even though we have free will we are indeed so easily led. The trick is to know we are and choose the right party to follow.

For those who by pride or by disbelief think them self beyond being led will of course be driven the hardest. I see so many with a ring in their nose yet they tell me I am the one who takes a path based on a false message. They tell me I follow a fairy tale and live in a dream world. Yet this world is the dream and one day I wish to wake and find that I am in the greater reality. Yes I do willingly follow.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:58 am 
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Franktalk wrote:
Just what is the Kingdom of God? I am not sure but I suspect it is better than this place. Although some feel this place is just fine. It is my belief that they are settling because of the unknown. This is a view based on safety. For those who will take that leap of faith into the unknown I think there is a huge reward. For those who wish to stay I think they will stay. I wonder if how we treat fear is really the driving force on our path. If we love God more than we fear Him then we look forward to seeing Him. But if we fear the unknown then our own fear and not love drives us. We cling to what we know even in the face of a promise of something better. And when you consider that God allows for free will then those who deny Him He will not allow in His presence. The choice is ours. The fear is ours. We choose what to embrace. We choose what to hold as truth. We have many paths that we can take. All of this is supplied for us. We are born into this world of choices. If we embrace this world I think we stay here. If we seek another then doors are opened for us.


I asked a simple question and it causes you to go off in another direction simply asserting things again without backing them up, and not even answering the question. I wonder why I shouldn't take a leap of faith and believe Wicca or Islam, Hinduism, etc?

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Luke 9

62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Just as it takes a leap of faith to accept Christ it takes a leap of faith and a single focus to leave this world. It is up to us.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Franktalk wrote:
Luke 9

62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Just as it takes a leap of faith to accept Christ it takes a leap of faith and a single focus to leave this world. It is up to us.


The same can be said of any religion like Wicca. Will you be taking that leap of faith soon.

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:30 pm 
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In the first place, there are no older religions than Christianity since animal sacrifices to point to the redemption of Christ were performed since the days of Adam. That was just a somewhat successful attempt by the left to rewrite history which they got away with to a certain extent due to the long passage of time and lack of overwhelming evidence. Also, other religions have books, but none comparable to the Bible.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:03 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
In the first place, there are no older religions than Christianity since animal sacrifices to point to the redemption of Christ were performed since the days of Adam. That was just a somewhat successful attempt by the left to rewrite history which they got away with to a certain extent due to the long passage of time and lack of overwhelming evidence. Also, other religions have books, but none comparable to the Bible.


Your assertion is demonstrably untrue and has been shown to be untrue on this very board.

The Quran isn't comparable to the Bible?
The Book of Mormon isn't comparable to the Bible?

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:31 am 
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Drifting wrote:
gdemetz wrote:
In the first place, there are no older religions than Christianity since animal sacrifices to point to the redemption of Christ were performed since the days of Adam. That was just a somewhat successful attempt by the left to rewrite history which they got away with to a certain extent due to the long passage of time and lack of overwhelming evidence. Also, other religions have books, but none comparable to the Bible.


Your assertion is demonstrably untrue and has been shown to be untrue on this very board.

The Quran isn't comparable to the Bible?
The Book of Mormon isn't comparable to the Bible?


He shows a lot of ignorance of Eastern religions, but then that is fairly common here in the west.

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:17 pm 
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It only seems untrue to you because you apparently don't accept the Book of Moses, as well as the Bible, which records these sacrifices to be true.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:59 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
It only seems untrue to you because you apparently don't accept the Book of Moses, as well as the Bible, which records these sacrifices to be true.


What reason do you give that he should believe these records are accurate over other religious texts which may have conflicting stories?

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:52 pm 
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Do you have specific references to conflicting stories; stories which would contradict that Adam ever did that? Please give me a reference. I would like to critique that.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:00 pm 
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All of these little details. I ask myself if they really do make for a clear picture of what is to come. Most of the time I think they do not give us that clear picture. Then I think about why we are so driven to seek just a few crumbs of understanding. It seems to me we are hard wired to do that seeking. I think in Romans it clearly says that by living in the universe we are without excuse if we turn from God. Then there are those who deny deny deny. What is with that?


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:02 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
Do you have specific references to conflicting stories; stories which would contradict that Adam ever did that? Please give me a reference. I would like to critique that.


You can look up other religions, particularly eastern ones who will have different stories. Why should they consider there stories incorrect and biblical ones accurate.

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Franktalk wrote:
All of these little details. I ask myself if they really do make for a clear picture of what is to come. Most of the time I think they do not give us that clear picture. Then I think about why we are so driven to seek just a few crumbs of understanding. It seems to me we are hard wired to do that seeking. I think in Romans it clearly says that by living in the universe we are without excuse if we turn from God. Then there are those who deny deny deny. What is with that?


Why do you deny deny deny? I suppose it's that you want to maintain your fantasy. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:11 pm 
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There are many stories in the world and many made up characters. Let us take Tinker Bell. Just how many of us as kids tried to save Tinker Bell in her hour of need. Did we indeed believe in the character or did we embrace the story and played along wrapped in the fantasy. A story is a powerful device to bring out emotion and to bring truth into view. Even truth that is hard to face. Many see God as fantasy and give the scriptures the same weight as a good story.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 002AAMof3S

With this history of man I can see why some would declare that the narrative of God can indeed be seen as many other stories. For those who do believe it is a very strong narrative of truth. But what I see as unique is the devotion of the deniers. I mean how many websites are dedicated to the belief in Tinker Bell and if she existed or not? Just how many deniers of Tinker Bell would spend thousands of hours trying to convince the Tinker Bell followers to cast their beliefs aside? Why can't they see the waste of time and effort that they give an idea which they don't believe in. I have heard some say we do it because we are trying to help our fellow man. To that I reply if they wish to help their fellow man then you will find many on the street that need your help. Find people with no internet connection. But the power of the message is revealed in belief and disbelief.


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