It is currently Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:19 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 619 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 ... 30  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:22 pm 
CTR B

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
Tobin wrote:
That's a very poor assumption. If God didn't think we could understand him, why speak to man at all? In fact, how did we even get scripture in the first place if man is incapable of understanding God with our tiny minds?


Hi Tobin!

Thank you for your response.

I can understand why you would take offense, but if you will take note, God did not speak to 'man' in scripture, but to prophets, to mystics, whom had intimate spiritual encounters with God and could thus have some level of understanding of their experience, of the Word of God with which they communed, and were able to communicate that to 'man', or to the people. Thus God did not speak to man, but to messengers, mystics, prophets, apostles, who then spoke 'for God'.

And still today, God does not speak to 'man', but to prophets, apostles and messengers, or to those whose inner sensing is awakening, those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

Quote:
You misunderstand why the Pharisees missed it. They let their own biases and preconceptions get in the way.


Yes, indeed. They let their own biases and preconceptions get in the way. They had no direct experience of God and refused to listen to those who did, and so elevated an understanding that was only opinion above an understanding that came directly from God. Their 'interpretation' without direct knowing or experience was only opinion, and they held to that instead of an interpretation that came from one who could see.

Quote:
This was not true of everyone though.


Yes, some were not blind. Some could also see and also had intimacy with God. Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Blessed are you, Peter, for you did not use the biases and preconceptions of blind men to see, but your own inner sight, your own communing with the Father.

Quote:
Many welcomed the arrival of the Messiah, even when he was very young. Don't forget the 3 wise men and there were many others that recognized him as well.


Yes! The three wise men were mystics. The word that is translated as wise is magus or astrologer.

Quote:
Many have announced the Second Coming throughout the centuries, but if you understand the scriptures you realize that it doesn't matter when the Lord is coming (or it shouldn't matter). What matters is how you conduct your life and what your relationship is with the Lord. After all, you might get hit by a bus tomorrow and meet the Lord then. That is the key to Second Coming of the Lord and the kind of mindset you should have in preparing for his arrival.


Yes, I like this. No matter what we think of the Second Coming, this is how we ought to live.

Shalom!

Sheryl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:24 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
You're wrong again Tobin. The reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost was given to the apostles on the day of Pentecost. This gift was conferred on them by Jesus as recorded in John 20:22. However, the Holy Ghost can come to anyone at anytime He sees fit. Elizabeth received a manifestation of the Holy Ghost when she saw the pregnant Mary (see Luke 1:41)!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:37 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:01 am
Posts: 6159
Location: Get ready to feel the THUNDER!
gdemetz wrote:
You're wrong again Tobin. The reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost was given to the apostles on the day of Pentecost. This gift was conferred on them by Jesus as recorded in John 20:22. However, the Holy Ghost can come to anyone at anytime He sees fit. Elizabeth received a manifestation of the Holy Ghost when she saw the pregnant Mary (see Luke 1:41)!!!
Are you sure about that? http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/holy-ghost?lang=eng
Quote:
...For some reason not fully explained in the scriptures, the Holy Ghost did not operate in the fulness among the Jews during the years of Jesus’ mortal sojourn...
It seems the Church doesn't agree with you and it seems the Savior in the scriptures doesn't agree with you either.
Quote:
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Quote:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:44 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
I never said that the Holy Ghost operated in it's fullness! I merely quoted some scriptures, particularly one, to show you that you were wrong when you implied that they were no manifestations of the Holy Ghost until that day of Pentecost!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:03 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:01 am
Posts: 6159
Location: Get ready to feel the THUNDER!
gdemetz wrote:
I never said that the Holy Ghost operated in it's fullness! I merely quoted some scriptures, particularly one, to show you that you were wrong when you implied that they were no manifestations of the Holy Ghost until that day of Pentecost!
Ok, very slowly and carefully read John 16:7 and then read Luke 24:13-32. This is about when Jesus was in their presense unglorified. Then see when the Holy Ghost is promised to them later in the very same chapter - Luke 24:49.

As I've told you feelings are insufficient because they are open to interpretation. If you see God (or if the gifts of the Spirt are made manifest to a group of people like during the day of pentecost) or a messenger of God appears to you, those are real spiritual experiences. All others are subjective and open to real doubt and I have no reason to believe you what-so-ever. Or in other words, unless I see God and God tells me he told you something - or the Holy Ghost bears witness to me through the gifts of the Spirt, I have no reason to believe you. These are the good gifts of God that the true followers of God seek. They are certain, real, and you don't have to look any further than Joseph Smith's example to see how important they are. The reason I am a Mormon (and not an atheist) is because I saw God. I didn't feel it was something I should do. I didn't read some stupid book and have a warm feeling run down my leg about it. I saw God. Unless you have something similar in your life, you have no knowledge of God. God is not subjective. God is definitive. God is knowledge, reality and not up to debate and interpretation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:08 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
Hello! Tobin, you stated that "they did not receive the Holy Ghost until the day of Pentecost" in order to disprove what I said about certain disciples having the influence of the Holy Ghost! I countered your argument by showing clearly that the Holy Ghost was made manifest to Elizabeth before that day! Case closed!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:19 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:01 am
Posts: 6159
Location: Get ready to feel the THUNDER!
gdemetz wrote:
Hello! Tobin, you stated that "they did not receive the Holy Ghost until the day of Pentecost" in order to disprove what I said about certain disciples having the influence of the Holy Ghost! I countered your argument by showing clearly that the Holy Ghost was made manifest to Elizabeth before that day! Case closed!
You'd make a terrible lawyer. Read the scriptures and statements from the Church again and engage your brain with the following question - "Was Christ born yet?" Also, how do you account for all the other scriptures and statements from the Church that contradict your position?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:29 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:01 am
Posts: 6159
Location: Get ready to feel the THUNDER!
sheryl wrote:
...
Ok, let's just say I agree with most of what you said and don't feel like nit-picking at minor points that I don't agree with. However, I do disagree about your contention that God can only speak to "prophets, apostles and messengers". As far as I know, they are still mortal men (and women) with tiny brains. How do you account for this? I don't necessarily buy the idea that God only talks to a special class of humans that are "prophets, apostles and messengers" because they are more advanced that us and have bigger brains or something physically different from us. I believe God can speak with any person, so long as they are willing to listen and do what God commands. I believe the reason that God doesn't speak to most people isn't because God isn't speaking - but because people aren't listening and aren't willing to do what the Lord commands.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:45 am 
God

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:13 pm
Posts: 1831
Location: Canada
Love to get into this FUNARAMA, but I gotta earn my keep... Contribute latter. Do yer best Sheryl, then I'm confident there will be some sense in the midst :smile:

_________________
Have you noticed what a beautiful day it is? Some can't...
"God": nick-name for the Universe...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:00 pm 
CTR B

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
Tobin wrote:
sheryl wrote:
...
Ok, let's just say I agree with most of what you said and don't feel like nit-picking at minor points that I don't agree with. However, I do disagree about your contention that God can only speak to "prophets, apostles and messengers". As far as I know, they are still mortal men (and women) with tiny brains. How do you account for this? I don't necessarily buy the idea that God only talks to a special class of humans that are "prophets, apostles and messengers" because they are more advanced that us and have bigger brains or something physically different from us. I believe God can speak with any person, so long as they are willing to listen and do what God commands. I believe the reason that God doesn't speak to most people isn't because God isn't speaking - but because people aren't listening and aren't willing to do what the Lord commands.


Hi Tobin!

Thank you for your response. I am happy to have a chance to speak more on this.

It is not that our brain is tiny, but that our consciousness - or our use of the brain - our mind, is tiny. And with a tiny mind one is in a box, blind. Now what we call the soul is also the consciousness, so one can use any term that feels right to them, but perhaps explaining the soul as consciousness, or better yet awareness, makes more sense. And so with our mundane senses, what are we aware of? With the use of our mundane senses, what can we perceive, what are the limits to our consciousness or soul with purely mundane senses to perceive with?

Some traditions refer to awakening as the expansion of consciousness - the actual stretching of our soul's ability to see, to hear. Hence able to know, to understand and thereby function with wisdom. And when we are talking about the expansion of our consciousness, we are speaking of being able to receive more of 'God'. Able to touch and encounter more or God, thus ultimately receiving God's Knowledge, Wisdom, and Understanding. The Mind of Christ, as Paul describes it.

Now we all have experienced some expansion of consciousness, say in studying for a test or trying to figure out an advanced math problem, we had to stretch our consciousness through effort, practice, focus and devotion, to be able to see into and receive understanding of the greater aspects of math. We also, and most importantly, experience an expansion of consciousness when we love. It is this latter expansion that draws us closer to God, love - expanding our consciousness so that we might see into others, see what they are experiencing, what they are thinking, developing empathy, compassion.

And so the greatest commandment - Love God with all your heart, mind and soul, and love others as your self - is the commandment to expand our consciousness, to make our soul, mind, and heart increasingly spacious!

And when we do this, more of God can get into our awareness, or perception. And as more of God gets into us, our ability to See and Hear the things of God likewise expands.

I hope that you see, we are all working on this greater mind, this expansion of consciousness! This is the journey. This is purification. Obstacles to our being able to love others is likewise obstacles to the expansion of our soul, obstacles to drawing near to God. And so perhaps you see why sin keeps us separate from God. Sin, or missing the mark, not loving God or others, keeps us from Seeing, Hearing, Knowing and Understanding, thus keeping us from God, who is the Source of these things, or energies or attributes.

Those who are prophets have experienced an expansion of consciousness so that they can touch more of God, and bring into materiality what they touch - God's Word, messages, understanding, as well as Light and Healing, for the people. Apostles have united fully with God, and embody God's attributes fully in this world, bringing in the greatest understanding, Light and Healing for the people.

When the Bible speaks about knowing and being known, this is what is being discussed, or communing with God face to face.

I hope this helps!

Shalom and may all beings know God!

Sheryl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:29 pm 
CTR B

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
I just wanted to add, that the reception of the Holy Spirit is what works in us to draw our soul out, or to expand it, expand our awareness/consciousness, so that we might See and Hear. The Holy Spirit is what purifies us from the obstacles that keep us bound up in our little box mind - fears, negativities.

If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Abiding is cleaving, attaching, this is what expands our consciousness further, finding God's Word, and cleaving to it.

However, when the Spirit of truth, has come, It will guide you into all truth.

This is how the Holy Spirit guides us - purifying us of the obstacles that keep our soul, awareness, consciousness from expanding, and then through our cleaving or abiding in this that we have found within us, our soul is expanded into awareness of, and eventually unity with, God.


Sheryl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:40 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:01 am
Posts: 6159
Location: Get ready to feel the THUNDER!
sheryl wrote:
...
I guess I'm still having trouble with what you are saying and need some common understanding to help me. Are you using soul in the sense of the melding of physical and spiritual? The reason I ask is this: we certainly can physically see God (or the effects of God) so that can't be what you mean by our tiny consciousness. For example, a burning bush, a pillar of fire, Jesus Christ in the flesh, the Holy Ghost as a dove, and so on. And I'd hope you'd agree that we can comprehend God and his judgements upon our death when we are once again only spirits.

Now, IF you are using soul in the sense of the melding of the two, then physical or genetic injury would have an effect on the soul and diminish our ability to perceive God. However, I have a hard time believing that the mentally disabled are even less able to perceive God than we are. In fact, I would argue the opposite would seem to be true and many of them seem more attune to God in their child-like innocence and general acceptance of everyone. This is the dichotomy I see in your view of this matter.

So, I hope this helps you see why I am very uncomfortable with this view. I don't think it can possibly be the capacity of our soul that is the problem here in comprehending God, but instead it must be one of choice and willingness instead. And I fully realize that who God manifests and speaks with is a two-way street. First, one must be willing and open to it but secondly, God must appear to us (or as it is often characterized in the scriptures - we must be chosen).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:50 pm 
CTR B

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
Tobin wrote:
I guess I'm still having trouble with what you are saying and need some common understanding to help me. Are you using soul in the sense of the melding of physical and spiritual? The reason I ask is this: we certainly can physically see God (or the effects of God) so that can't be what you mean by our tiny consciousness. For example, a burning bush, a pillar of fire, Jesus Christ in the flesh, the Holy Ghost as a dove, and so on. And I'd hope you'd agree that we can comprehend God and his judgements upon our death when we are once again only spirits.


Hi Tobin!

Some of the things that you described were not visible with the mundane senses, but only with the spiritual senses or with the expanding of consciousness. Take the burning bush for example. What was perceivable by mundane senses did not burn. It was Moses' expansion of consciousness that allowed him to see the Angel of the Lord, or the spiritual fire within the bush. I offer that it was the same with the pillar of fire and the 'dove' that descended on Yeshua.

And if you take note, it is not God who did the things in the physical, such as the parting of the Red Sea, but a prophet. God working through them. The parting of the Read Sea occurred through Moses.

15 And the Lord said to Moses, “Why do you cry to Me? Tell the children of Israel to go forward. 16 But lift up your rod, and stretch out your hand over the sea and divide it. And the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.

Quote:
Now, IF you are using soul in the sense of the melding of the two, then physical or genetic injury would have an effect on the soul and diminish our ability to perceive God. However, I have a hard time believing that the mentally disabled are even less able to perceive God than we are. In fact, I would argue the opposite would seem to be true and many of them seem more attune to God in their child-like innocence and general acceptance of everyone. This is the dichotomy I see in your view of this matter.


Just to note this is not 'my view on the matter', but reality as expressed by the prophets and apostles living among us past and present.

What you are tugging at is a great question. Those who have mental disabilities in this world are hindered at the development of the soul, at this level of being. You see there are higher aspects of soul within us, deep within us, aspects that are in unity with God. The purpose of creation is to create a lower aspect of the soul in the outer worlds, one that can connect with this higher aspect, so that God can move in and through the outer worlds. And so what we are doing when we expand our consciousness is connecting our lower soul with our higher soul, increasingly as our consciousness expands.

Yes, a disabled person in one sense is more connected with these higher aspects of self, yet hindered at bringing that higher aspect into this world completely. So hindered at a full awakening or expansion of the lower to the higher, or certainly what me might call a melding of all aspects of self, from the higher spiritual all the way down to the mundane or physical.

As our consciousness expands, we come to realize that there is so much more to creation than this physical world, we are so much more than the physical. We experience bits of that so much more each and every day and night, as part of the design to awaken, but because we are so attached to the mundane to the things of this world, we are blocked from being able to unite completely.

One must lose his life (his limited perspective of his self as the physical being living a physical life), to find Life (recognition and awareness of one self as an Eternal Being, finding and Uniting with our Self in Christ).

Quote:
So, I hope this helps you see why I am very uncomfortable with this view. I don't think it can possibly be the capacity of our soul that is the problem here in comprehending God, but instead it must be one of choice and willingness instead. And I fully realize that who God manifests and speaks with is a two-way street. First, one must be willing and open to it but secondly, God must appear to us (or as it is often characterized in the scriptures - we must be chosen).


If I might ask, are you willing? Have you made the choice? If yes, have you seen God?

This journey to expand our awareness, our soul, so that we can see and unite with God is a journey that goes way beyond this one life. But if we make the choice and are willing, we will progress much faster.

The stories in the Old Testament, of individuals hearing and seeing God, are telling of experiences that only happened to a few people. I offer that such things are still occurring in the world, the same prophecies, visions, miracles, but as in Biblical days, only a few are experiencing them. These few, as in days past, are called out of the major religious movements or traditions, where the masses gather. Mystics are separated from the masses, this is why one does not typically find them in a major religion. Leaders of major religions are part of this world, are not the messengers, the Holy Ones of the Father, and so one will not find themselves accepted there as a mystic and will have to leave.

The few hence are called out, separated, gathering together in small groups, all around the world, within and behind the major religions.

There are though in today's world more soul's advancing, experiencing such things, with the advent of the Second Coming, than in the past, especially before the First Coming.

May all who chose and are willing be chosen be called into Your Presence, Adonai.


Sheryl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:16 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:01 am
Posts: 6159
Location: Get ready to feel the THUNDER!
sheryl wrote:
Some of the things that you described were not visible with the mundane senses, but only with the spiritual senses or with the expanding of consciousness. Take the burning bush for example. What was perceivable by mundane senses did not burn. It was Moses' expansion of consciousness that allowed him to see the Angel of the Lord, or the spiritual fire within the bush. I offer that it was the same with the pillar of fire.

And if you take note, it is not God who did the things in the physical, such as the parting of the Red Sea, but a prophet. God working through them. The parting of the Read Sea occurred through Moses.

15 And the Lord said to Moses, “Why do you cry to Me? Tell the children of Israel to go forward. 16 But lift up your rod, and stretch out your hand over the sea and divide it. And the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.
I guess I have quite a few problems with this. I think you are saying that physical manifestations by God require a spiritual element. I find that to be highly unlikely given the large number of examples available to us in the scriptures. For example (and why you don't screw around with a prophet of God):
Quote:
2 Kings 1:12 And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.
This was a very real physical effect upon non-spiritual people. The other problem I have with your position is that the power of God is made manifest through a prophet. I can not fathom that in the slightest. What does a prophet add (or do) that makes the power of God manifest? And it certainly makes little sense if you believe God made the the world (before men existed) or caused a world-wide flood.

sheryl wrote:
Just to note this is not 'my view on the matter', but reality as expressed by the prophets and apostles living among us past and present.
I'm sure you feel passionately about your view, but I'm of the opinion that we are imperfect creatures and to pretend we absolutely know the mind of God I think is going a step too far. That is why I'm interested in discussing your view (as well as others) in shaping my own views.

sheryl wrote:
...
I don't disagree terribly with what you state after this and find it interesting.

sheryl wrote:
If I might ask, are you willing? Have you made the choice? If yes, have you seen God?
My own experience with God was quite shocking. I was an ex-mormon, atheist and hedonist. I was actively sinning against God when God appeared and stopped me (and a person that was with me). I am still trying to come to terms with that experience and framing my views about what it meant. I have no doubt there is a God for example. However, I am still searching out how best to express that and what the attributes of God really are. Also, as I reflect on it myself, I do believe this experience stopped me at the time, but it does not mean I do not still have those appetites and have many of the same shortcomings I had before. I believe that is why I have not re-experienced something like that (nor do I really wish to have such an experience again since it was unpleasant). So why do I seek another experience with God? I believe you can have a positive experience with God if you are prepared and I hope that someday when I am in better control over my desires and how I behave I will be ready for such an encounter.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:43 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:13 pm
Posts: 1831
Location: Canada
Hi All!
Some very interesting and worthwhile comments here. IF one is into deep interpretations rather than into basic understanding of Jesus' words. As he spoke personally to those who brought the adulteress for stoning approval. Or when teaching with parables, as with the Good Samaritan story.
In Jesus' life-like situations there was/is no game of wits, dazzling foot-work or scholastic arguments pretending spirituality. . .
It has been said, "in all of your getting, get understanding." I respectfully suggest, that be obtained by studying and abiding the teachings, character and disposition of Jesus of Nazareth. You then won't be diverting folks from significant paths into outer darkness thinking you are bringing them to the light... YIKES :rolleyes:
But hey, if it gives you something, take it and enjoy it while you have it here. There ain't no place else! :smile:
Warmest regards, Roger

_________________
Have you noticed what a beautiful day it is? Some can't...
"God": nick-name for the Universe...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:10 pm 
CTR B

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
Shalom Tobin!

An encounter with God can shake things up! Certainly our life as we thought it was is over, and yes, we spend what remains of it seeking understanding of what was experienced.

I would be interested in hearing more, or reading more of your experience, if that is possible?

Tobin wrote:
I guess I have quite a few problems with this. I think you are saying that physical manifestations by God require a spiritual element. I find that to be highly unlikely given the large number of examples available to us in the scriptures. For example (and why you don't screw around with a prophet of God):

Quote:
2 Kings 1:12 And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.


This was a very real physical effect upon non-spiritual people. The other problem I have with your position is that the power of God is made manifest through a prophet. I can not fathom that in the slightest. What does a prophet add (or do) that makes the power of God manifest? And it certainly makes little sense if you believe God made the the world (before men existed) or caused a world-wide flood.


Indeed, what works through the spiritual, even what occurs in the spiritual has a real effect on the physical. The two are intimately connected.

And regarding God working through prophets, if you were ask a prophet, or son of God, about this he might say:

Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.

It is through our will that the will of God manifests in this world. God works through those whose will has aligned with His. As Jesus, said, not my will by thy will be done, and then Jesus enacted God's will. Remember what I said about the expansion of heart, the expansion of our consciousness? This is how our will becomes God's Will, or God's Will becomes our own, and we enact it.

God's will is also enacted through Archangels and angelic beings. Anything that God does is enacted through the spiritual powers or entities that emanate from him. God's eyes, his hands, his arms, his wings, are Divine Powers that emanate from him, and angelic beings manifest these powers throughout creation, just as physical beings manifest these powers in the physical. This is coming in the Name of the Lord. Being a physical being manifesting the Name, or Powers and Attributes, of God. Just look at anything that God does in this world - there are angels or men/women bringing it down, bringing it into this world. Even in the example above, Elijah said, "Let fire come down from heaven."

Note the fire did not come down from Heaven until he said let the fire come...

And so the Bible tells us that we are to be temple's for God's Spirit, we are to be vehicles, consciousness vehicles through which God's Spirit moves and works in this world!

Go back and look at 'God working in this world' as recorded in the Bible. You will see men or angels there, and God's will moving through them. Their will, our will, becomes like a catapult, projecting 'God' into this world - our consciousness connecting with God, and bringing God consciousness into materiality through our thought, word, and deed.

Quote:
I'm sure you feel passionately about your view, but I'm of the opinion that we are imperfect creatures and to pretend we absolutely know the mind of God I think is going a step too far. That is why I'm interested in discussing your view (as well as others) in shaping my own views.


Indeed. I said nothing different. But, if you are dissing the prophets and apostles in this world, implying that we might know God better than them...

:smile:

Quote:
My own experience with God was quite shocking. I was an ex-mormon, atheist and hedonist. I was actively sinning against God when God appeared and stopped me (and a person that was with me). I am still trying to come to terms with that experience and framing my views about what it meant. I have no doubt there is a God for example. However, I am still searching out how best to express that and what the attributes of God really are. Also, as I reflect on it myself, I do believe this experience stopped me at the time, but it does not mean I do not still have those appetites and have many of the same shortcomings I had before. I believe that is why I have not re-experienced something like that (nor do I really wish to have such an experience again since it was unpleasant). So why do I seek another experience with God? I believe you can have a positive experience with God if you are prepared and I hope that someday when I am in better control over my desires and how I behave I will be ready for such an encounter.


As shared above, I would love to hear more of your experience. After such, we have to integrate it, embody it - live the truth that was revealed to us, before more is given.

Shalom!

Sheryl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:08 pm 
CTR B

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
Roger Morrison wrote:
Hi All!
Some very interesting and worthwhile comments here. IF one is into deep interpretations rather than into basic understanding of Jesus' words. As he spoke personally to those who brought the adulteress for stoning approval. Or when teaching with parables, as with the Good Samaritan story.
In Jesus' life-like situations there was/is no game of wits, dazzling foot-work or scholastic arguments pretending spirituality. . .
It has been said, "in all of your getting, get understanding." I respectfully suggest, that be obtained by studying and abiding the teachings, character and disposition of Jesus of Nazareth. You then won't be diverting folks from significant paths into outer darkness thinking you are bringing them to the light... YIKES :rolleyes:
But hey, if it gives you something, take it and enjoy it while you have it here. There ain't no place else! :smile:
Warmest regards, Roger


Shabbat Shalom, Roger!

In worlds in the outer darkness, such as our world, there is always ignorance, distortion, in what everyone sees and understands, unless one is the Perfect Master such as Jesus the Christ. And so if we accept it as a given that there is always distortion, in what we see and in what others see, ya'd think we'd back off from one another a bit, and not think our way is it!

But indeed we do need to study and abide in the teachings at our disposal, but it is not in our study and abiding that real understanding comes, but as a gift while we are studying and abiding, as we open ourselves to receive. And to receive we cannot be full our own understanding, or that which comes from our own analysis, or our own opinion.

So given that there is always distortion, given that we must be empty to receive, then we ought not hold tightly to any understanding, whether we believe it from our own minds, or that it has been gifted to us by the Holy Spirit, but instead always remain open, empty, realizing our poverty.

Do you remember to whom Jesus said the kingdom of heaven belonged? Whom would receive the kingdom of heaven? Those whom are poor in spirit, or those whom are empty, realizing their poverty, and not filled with their own ideas and opinions about the kingdom!

So it is a skill that is developed: seeking understanding, receiving understanding, holding that understanding loosely or remaining empty of understanding, so that we might receive more.

It is a balance between humility and pride, humility in ourselves, pride in whom we are in Christ.

May all beings receive gifts of Knowledge, Understanding, and Wisdom, gifts of GodSelf! Amen.

Sheryl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:19 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:13 pm
Posts: 1831
Location: Canada
sheryl wrote:
Roger Morrison wrote:
Hi All!
Some very interesting and worthwhile comments here. IF one is into deep interpretations rather than into basic understanding of Jesus' words. As he spoke personally to those who brought the adulteress for stoning approval. Or when teaching with parables, as with the Good Samaritan story.
In Jesus' life-like situations there was/is no game of wits, dazzling foot-work or scholastic arguments pretending spirituality. . .
It has been said, "in all of your getting, get understanding." I respectfully suggest, that be obtained by studying and abiding the teachings, character and disposition of Jesus of Nazareth. You then won't be diverting folks from significant paths into outer darkness thinking you are bringing them to the light... YIKES :rolleyes:
But hey, if it gives you something, take it and enjoy it while you have it here. There ain't no place else! :smile:
Warmest regards, Roger



Shabbat Shalom, Roger!

Hi Sheryl! thanks for your response... Question, cuz of my lack of Judaic knowledge, what is the meaning of "Shabbat" & "Shalom"? I have an idea, but I'll appreciate the correct translation. :smile:

In worlds in the outer darkness, such as our world, there is always ignorance, distortion, in what everyone sees and understands, For sure! unless one is the Perfect Master such as Jesus the Christ. Haven't met THE one yet. Some pretenders, but... And so if we accept it as a given that there is always distortion, in what we see and in what others see, definitely given... ya'd think we'd back off from one another a bit, and not think our way is it! 't'would be really good! Generally, we aren't there yet. Too much ego & insecurity. "I" gotta be right!! Learned that via our faulty education system. Cannot be wrong! You'll get a BIG red X!! Most US & Canadian folks do not have post secondary education. Critical thinking is not part of their curriculum. Conflict resolution was/is not high on any agenda. Winning is THE biggie! So, we're conditioned to NOT "back off". It is a shame, but that's what happens when the misinformed lead the uniformed

But indeed we do need to study and abide in the teachings at our disposal, but it is not in our study and abiding that real understanding comes, but as a gift while we are studying and abiding, as we open ourselves to receive. And to receive we cannot be full our own understanding, or that which comes from our own analysis, or our own opinion. Is this the 'chicken-egg' thing? As I see it, 'study & abiding' precedes 'gifting'... Or are you looking at it a 'faith vs works' thing??

So given that there is always distortion, given that we must be empty to receive, then we ought not hold tightly to any understanding, whether we believe it from our own minds, or that it has been gifted to us by the Holy Spirit, but instead always remain open, empty, realizing our poverty.

Do you remember to whom Jesus said the kingdom of heaven belonged? Whom would receive the kingdom of heaven? Those whom are poor in spirit, or those whom are empty, realizing their poverty, and not filled with their own ideas and opinions about the kingdom!

So it is a skill that is developed: seeking understanding, receiving understanding, holding that understanding loosely or remaining empty of understanding, so that we might receive more.

It is a balance between humility and pride, (I wish to use confidence in place of pride) humility in ourselves, confidence in whom we are in Christ.

May all beings receive gifts of Knowledge, Understanding, and Wisdom, gifts of GodSelf! Amen.

Sheryl


I wish and work to that end as well! Highest regards Sheryl, Roger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:35 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:28 pm
Posts: 1345
Location: AZ
Sheryl,

What a difficult path to true understanding. When someone yearns to know we are eager to know so when some knowledge does come our way we run with it. Making all of the assumptions that come with eagerness. Then when we find that scripture is inconsistent we wonder why we are led this way. Many stop here but the few that reset them self and throw off their own words and understanding and start over can continue on the path. You know you are doing well when the love of God comes through in all messages. If one sees God as vengeful or arbitrary then they are off the path. Scripture gives us sign posts that we can use. Like a buoy on the way to the harbor. But each buoy has the same sign. They say God loves you, please love each other. But we read each sign with better understanding and each sign appears new. The depth increases. The absolute truth of it gets written on our hearts and mind. Those who love freely have an easier time on this path. Those who are easy to anger have a much more difficult time. I am quick to judge and condemn so I must clear myself of that before I can start again. But God's mercy is endless and even a wretched person like me can make progress. But you must at times let everything go. This is impossible for some. They see the words but have no clue what that means. But as we age there comes a time when we do start to seek and let another guide us. In this we are all Peter.

Joh 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

And just as Peter is a type for the church he is also a type for us all. I am sure this is why Jesus picked him. Peter truly loved God but he loved himself more when he was young. What we all must realize in time is that we love our self best when we are like Christ and do the will of the Father. When we are not like Christ then the love of self is a roadblock but as one becomes more like Christ the love of self is the love of Christ in this there is a sense of being one. This is the oneness spoken in scripture that we can experience in the flesh.

Dear friend may your love of all God's children never diminish.

Frank


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:07 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
OK Tobin, I will explain it much more carefully to you. First of all, it was a manifestation of the GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST which was given on the day of Pentecost to the apostles which I mentioned earlier. This gift of the Holy Ghost which was given also by the laying on of hands by the apostles was also not given until after they received it on the day of Pentecost. When the gift of the Holy Ghost is given, that entitles one to always have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost as long as they are worthy. This is the main reason that the apostles were so much more "spiritual" after they received this gift. However, a manifestation from the Holy Ghost can be had without the gift of the Holy Ghost. Christ stated that one could receive a manifestation by asking in prayer (see Luke 11:13)! The scriptures also state that no one can say that Jesus is the Christ, but by the Holy Ghost (see 1 Corinthians 12:3), and this is how Peter was able to testify with certainty that Jesus was the Christ (see Matthew 16:15-17)! Also, the LDS Bible Dictionary states the following under the topic of the Holy Ghost:

"For some reason, not fully explained in the scriptures, the Holy Ghost did not operate in the fullness among the Jews during the years of Jesus' mortal sojourn. Statements to the effect that the Holy Ghost did not come until after Jesus was resurrected must of necessity refer to that particular dispensation only, for it is abundantly clear that the Holy Ghost was operative in earlier dispensations. Furthermore, it has reference only to the gift of the Holy Ghost not being present, since the power of the Holy Ghost was operative during the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus; otherwise no one would have received a testimony of the truths that these men taught."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:48 pm 
CTR B

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
Roger Morrison wrote:
Hi Sheryl! thanks for your response... Question, cuz of my lack of Judaic knowledge, what is the meaning of "Shabbat" & "Shalom"? I have an idea, but I'll appreciate the correct translation. :smile:


Hi Roger!

Shabbat Shalom means Peace of the Sabbath, or Sabbath Peace.

Quote:
't'would be really good! Generally, we aren't there yet. Too much ego & insecurity. "I" gotta be right!! Learned that via our faulty education system. Cannot be wrong! You'll get a BIG red X!! Most US & Canadian folks do not have post secondary education. Critical thinking is not part of their curriculum. Conflict resolution was/is not high on any agenda. Winning is THE biggie! So, we're conditioned to NOT "back off". It is a shame, but that's what happens when the misinformed lead the uniformed


Humanity does not know what or who they are. The Bible tells us but it takes an advanced soul to have that Ahah! moment.

We are beasts. We behave like beasts, thinking, speaking, and acting first of all defensively. This is how we have arisen in this world, this is how we are made. But we are also more, so much more. But the beast must be tamed, overcome, before we can awaken to this more. God does not point at us and condemn us for what we are, cause this is how we were made. He points at our beastly nature pointing out its failings, giving us all we need to be freed of it, with our co-labor, when we are ready.

And so conflict is the way of the beast. Don't you feel the booger inside getting angry, feeling wronged, wanting to be right? And none of it is real, for the beast though it controls us is not actually real. It is like the shell of a seed, necessary until it is time for the seed to give sprout.

When we are ready.

Quote:
Is this the 'chicken-egg' thing? As I see it, 'study & abiding' precedes 'gifting'... Or are you looking at it a 'faith vs works' thing??


The faith vs works thing is a non issue, a distraction - a bone thrown to the beasts for them to fight over so that they cannot see the real issue. We must co-labor with God in our becoming sons of God. The study and abiding is necessary to develop the mental and emotional capabilities necessary for expanding our consciousness. Plain and simple. We need to focus our minds on God and cleave with our heart (love) so that our minds and hearts may draw near to God. It is through our greater mind and our heart - our consciousness, that we find, see and connect with the heavens, and with God. That is where God 'is'. Nearer than hands and feet, right here, we just have to develop the ability to perceive.


Quote:
So it is a skill that is developed: seeking understanding, receiving understanding, holding that understanding loosely or remaining empty of understanding, so that we might receive more.


Yes! The skill is taming the beast and learning how to direct our minds and our hearts towards God, so that we might find God and unite with God.

There is a bit more to the task - the Holy Spirit, purification, etc - all working to develop 'eyes that see' and 'ears that hear'.

Quote:
It is a balance between humility and pride, (I wish to use confidence in place of pride) humility in ourselves, confidence in whom we are in Christ.


I wish and work to that end as well! Highest regards Sheryl, Roger


Confidence is good! We just need to let go of the beast, be humble, seeing that we are bestial, so that we can see and receive our true self in Christ!

Shalom!

Sheryl


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 619 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 ... 30  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group