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 Post subject: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:16 am 
God

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Quote:
It’s not like he drank coffee or anything like that, but one LDS Church general authority must have had a little lapse in judgment last spring when he used his LDS Church email account to solicit campaign contributions for presidential candidate Mitt Romney.

W. Craig Zwick, a member of the church’s First Quorum of the Seventy, was in Las Vegas as part of a fundraising blitz for the Romney campaign when he got into an email exchange about setting up a golf date with an acquaintance in Salt Lake City.

"I’m down in Vegas helping Mitt Romney today," Zwick, whose son Spencer is Romney’s finance chairman, wrote from his church email address. "How much can you contribute to the Romney for President Committee today? You can only give $2,500 max for you and your wife. Let me know — let’s take zback America!"

That was sent right around the time of the church’s June 16, 2011 letter restating its policy on political participation, including this admonition: "General authorities and general officers of the church and their spouses and other ecclesiastical leaders serving full time should not personally participate in political campaigns, including promoting candidates, fundraising, speaking in behalf of or otherwise endorsing candidates, and making financial contributions."

Oops.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/5 ... t.html.csp


Should he resign/be fired?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:21 am 
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Maybe given emeritus status like Paul H. Dunn.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:55 pm 
God
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Drifting wrote:
Should he resign/be fired?

Nope.
its a minor violation, but you obviously would like to exaggerate the situation......so,please...proceed at will.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:05 am 
God

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subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:
Should he resign/be fired?

Nope.
its a minor violation, but you obviously would like to exaggerate the situation......so,please...proceed at will.


At what point would it become a major violation?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:33 am 
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Drifting wrote:
At what point would it become a major violation?


When its not a "wink, wink" rule/policy.


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:41 am 
God

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RockSlider wrote:
Drifting wrote:
At what point would it become a major violation?


When its not a "wink, wink" rule/policy.


What would happen to a member or a Bishop or a Stake President if they did exactly the same thing?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:42 am 
God
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Drifting wrote:

What would happen to a member or a Bishop or a Stake President if they did exactly the same thing?


"Since they are not full-time officers of the Church, Area Seventies, stake presidents and bishops are free to contribute, serve on campaign committees and otherwise support candidates of their choice with the understanding they:...(see further info at link below)"

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official- ... neutrality

and to answer your previous question of "At what point would it become a major violation?"...likely never
perhaps you should read D&C 1:21-27

According to Church handbook, this action is not even worthy of a Disciplinary Council. In fact not only is this "transgression" not applicable to that Council as "mandatory" it is even noted under the "not necessary".
In order for it to be escalated to "major" it would have to involve another, and "actual", transgression, such as stealing fast offerings to donate to a campaign.
Your cause here is weak.

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what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:53 am 
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Drifting wrote:
...Should he resign/be fired?

Our latest nominee for the Gnat-Strainer Award

Image

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what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:29 am 
God

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subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:

What would happen to a member or a Bishop or a Stake President if they did exactly the same thing?


"Since they are not full-time officers of the Church, Area Seventies, stake presidents and bishops are free to contribute, serve on campaign committees and otherwise support candidates of their choice with the understanding they:...(see further info at link below)"

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official- ... neutrality

and to answer your previous question of "At what point would it become a major violation?"...likely never
perhaps you should read D&C 1:21-27

According to Church handbook, this action is not even worthy of a Disciplinary Council. In fact not only is this "transgression" not applicable to that Council as "mandatory" it is even noted under the "not necessary".
In order for it to be escalated to "major" it would have to involve another, and "actual", transgression, such as stealing fast offerings to donate to a campaign.
Your cause here is weak.


Thanks for the link.

Unfortunately you missed off quoting this:

"General Authorities and general officers of the Church and their spouses and other ecclesiastical leaders serving full-time should not personally participate in political campaigns, including promoting candidates, fundraising, speaking in behalf of or otherwise endorsing candidates, and making financial contributions."

Which clearly shows the GA in the OP has clearly and deliberately breached official FP policy. Sounds like a case for discipline to me....

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Drifting wrote:

Thanks for the link.

Unfortunately you missed off quoting this:

"General Authorities and general officers of the Church and their spouses and other ecclesiastical leaders serving full-time should not personally participate in political campaigns, including promoting candidates, fundraising, speaking in behalf of or otherwise endorsing candidates, and making financial contributions."

did not "miss it" because you had already covered that...your question was about Bishop/Stake President, correct?

Quote:
Which clearly shows the GA in the OP has clearly and deliberately breached official FP policy. Sounds like a case for discipline to me....

Yes, clearly a violation...no one is disputing that......and that violation is a minor one, thus why there is no cause for a resignation or "firing"...(as was responded to your OP)
and as was stated in my previous post

....gnat strainer RAH!

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Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:48 pm 
God

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subgenius wrote:
Yes, clearly a violation...no one is disputing that

You are making progress, well done

Quote:
and that violation is a minor one

A senior Church Leader flagrantly disobeying an official proclamation from the First Presidency in order to gain personal and political gain is 'a minor offence'? Really?

That's like saying Paul H Dunn was just using a little poetic licence....

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:26 am 
God
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Drifting wrote:
You are making progress, well done

now, if only you were capable of making the same

Quote:
A senior Church Leader flagrantly disobeying an official proclamation from the First Presidency in order to gain personal and political gain is 'a minor offence'? Really?

That's like saying Paul H Dunn was just using a little poetic licence....

speaking of poetic license, glad to see yours is till valid...though i notice the upgrade to hyperbole.

just another perfect example of you being disingenuous - "flagrantly"? hardly...carelessly, yes..but flagrantly would be more appropriate if he did it from the stand at Conference.
And exactly what "personal" gain? what certain "political gain"? Is he to be afforded something that any other Romney supporter would not receive?? What proof do you have to offer from your OP? (hint: none)

Here, take your pick, i can't keep count of yours anymore

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Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:42 pm 
God

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Quote:
W. Craig Zwick, a member of the church’s First Quorum of the Seventy, was in Las Vegas as part of a fundraising blitz for the Romney campaign when he got into an email exchange about setting up a golf date with an acquaintance in Salt Lake City.

"I’m down in Vegas helping Mitt Romney today," Zwick, whose son Spencer is Romney’s finance chairman, wrote from his church email address. "How much can you contribute to the Romney for President Committee today? You can only give $2,500 max for you and your wife. Let me know — let’s take zback America!"


It is worth noting that this member of the First Q of the 70 receives a salary from the Church because he works full time for the Church.
Well, when I say full time I mean the time he has spare after working on Romneys campaign or paying golf.

P.s. did you spot the nepotism?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:31 am 
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Drifting wrote:
P.s. did you spot the nepotism?

nepotism is not illegal....jealous much?

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Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:27 am 
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2 Nephi 28:7-9

Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us. And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God — he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God. Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.

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Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:51 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
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subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:
P.s. did you spot the nepotism?

nepotism is not illegal....jealous much?


I didn't say it was illegal.

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Drifting wrote:

At what point would it become a major violation?


When he raises money for a Democrat, of course!

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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:28 pm 
God
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subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:
Should he resign/be fired?

Nope.
its a minor violation, but you obviously would like to exaggerate the situation......so,please...proceed at will.



Danger: falling rocks ahead...

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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:30 pm 
God
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subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:
...Should he resign/be fired?

Our latest nominee for the Gnat-Strainer Award

Image



I nominate Sir Bluffalot for his ad hoc Heavenly-Mother-has-been-dissed meme. But this thread may yet be the winner, if even by a nose.

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Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Quote:
Which clearly shows the GA in the OP has clearly and deliberately breached official FP policy. Sounds like a case for discipline to me....



What would you prefer?

1. Drawing and quartering

2. Burning at the stake

3. Being drawn and quartered while being burned at the stake.

4. Burning at the stake, followed by waterboarding.

5. An entire week locked in a holding cell with Justine Bieber (control yourself Paul...)

6. Being forced to listen to Barry Manilow records while being waterboarded.

7. Sent to Detroit

8. Boiled alive in molten peanut butter.

9. All of the above.

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Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell


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 Post subject: Re: The Church is not involved in politics...
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:45 pm 
God
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Equality wrote:
Drifting wrote:

At what point would it become a major violation?


When he raises money for a Democrat, of course!


Openly working in behalf of Satan could be looked upon as a major violation true, but the tares can't be pulled up just yet...


:cool:

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Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell


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