The above two quotes show that glass and steel are mentioned in the Bible as well as the Book of Mormon. So why is their Book of Mormon presence claimed as an achronism?

I don't know about glass, but the KJV often translates bronze as steel, erroneously. That's probably why Joseph thought he'd be safe talking about steel swords.

Or, since steel in the OT can refer to copper + an alloy, perhaps steel came through as the best translation to represent an unknown alloy.

In a Mesoamerican context, copper alloys are found after the Book of Mormon time context, but gold and silver alloys and copper use are found during that context so the possibility certainly exists.

Obsidian is volcanic glass and is used widely in Olmec and and the pre Classic and Classic Mayan periods, but I don't think it's very transparent.

It's a KJV translation error, bcspace, and it tripped Joseph up.

Perhaps since cake is made of flour and sugar and eggs, perhaps a good synonym for cake is steak tar tar.

Steel means something very specific. It doesn't mean any alloy.

Doesn't seem to be the case.



But unlike horse, it may not be something one can readily recognize so steel could be a most appropriate translation.

Yes, it is the case.

2 Sam 22:35 KJV:

He teacheth my hands to war; so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.

Original Hebrew:

http://biblos.com/2_samuel/22-35.htm

nə·ḥū·šāh נְחוּשָׁ֖ה of bronze



What do cureloms and cumoms look like?

Has nothing to do with a translation error in the Book of Mormon. I already noted and addressed the Hebrew in my first post.



Like animals Joseph Smith had never seen or heard of before or for which there were no English words he knew of at the time. He may have seen or recognized a metal, but what kind is not easily told or seen.

As I said, a translation error in the Old Testament made Joseph think he was on safe ground talking about steel. Unfortunately, he was mislead.



Like animals Joseph Smith had never seen or heard of before or for which there were no English words he knew of at the time. He may have seen or recognized a metal, but what kind is not easily told or seen.[/quote]

Did Joseph know the word curelom or cumoms at the time?

You can keep saying it all you want, but without evidence, it doesn't undo anything I said.



Why would he have had to? Why not just bring the actual word over and leave it untranslated?

You mean like he could have done with the alloy and the horse like creature?

The evidence is that the KJV Smith used incorrectly translated bronze as steel.



Are you saying Joseph didn't know words like copper, bronze, gold and silver?

Doesn't appear to be any.



No.

The big problem with "steel" is that it refers to smelted hard metals used to make weapons (swords) and tools, specifying in detail the process that was used (fire and bellows). There is no evidence that Native Americans had that technology; in fact, there is counter-evidence that they did not have that technology.

Nonsense. We know he had a KJV Bible with the incorrect translation.



Well then, why use the incorrect word steel?

It doesn't matter if it was steel or not. The word is irrelevant; it's the smelting process and the use of smelted, hard metals to make swords and tools that is anachronistic.

Don't let bcspace get you chasing his red herrings.

Thanks for bringing us back down to earth. I note with interest that bcspace fled once you mentioned smelting, like a vampire from a cross.

That is one thing wrong with debating with Mormons. They always try to steer people away from substantive issues. The gestalt is that it is an invented religion. The Mormon universe is very similar to the Mormon creation myth, organized from pre-existing matter (thought). What a jumble!!

Steel in the kjv is a translation error.
http://topicalbible.org/s/steel.htm
http://bible.cc/2_samuel/22-35.htm

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
He teacheth my hands to war; so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"He trains my hands for battle, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.


There's Nephi's steel bow.

It's very simple. You need high temperatures to smelt hard metals (note that ancient Americans did limited smelting with softer metals like copper at lower temperatures), and to do that you need the technology (in this case, a bellows). Conveniently, the Book of Mormon tells us that Nephi knew how to use a bellows to heat ore and extract hard metal:



Nephi also makes swords out of smelted hard metals:



The Jaredites had similar technology, according to the Book of Mormon:





There is no archaeological evidence of Mesoamericans using smelted hard metals either for tools or for weapons.

But this is just the "absence of evidence." The other half of the equation is that everywhere that high-temperature technology has been introduced, it has a ripple effect on other industries. For example, pottery that is fired at high heats is of much better quality and very different characteristics than is low-temperature pottery.

So, even if every steel sword and tool had rusted away, we would find pottery characteristic of high heat. What we find in Mesoamerica is pottery created rather crudely by putting the wet pots in a pit, covering them with brush, and setting the brush on fire. Brush is added to the fire until the pottery has hardened. This is positive evidence that high-heat technology was not known in Mesoamerica, and the archaeological evidence of low-heat metal work confirms that the technology was unknown.

They had really good steel back then. We know this because the sword of Laben did not rust away in all those years before Joseph Smith found it in the stone box.