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 Post subject: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:32 pm 
Sunbeam

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The stone box, did Joseph now about the use of stone boxes to bury metallic plates or did he just get a lucky hit?



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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:28 am 
God
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Weak.

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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:41 am 
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Dcharle wrote:
The stone box, did Joseph now about the use of stone boxes to bury metallic plates or did he just get a lucky hit?


Ok you have my attention...

Can you expand on that?

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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:51 am 
God

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Sethbag wrote:
Weak.


Weak only to the "weak minded"....

The biggest problem with your judgment is that Joseph Smith got right at least some 100,000 "weak" AND "strong" things. All the things he got right with the Book of Mormon that's only being proven true, with other scriptures, other teachings, etc.
Guess what that means....? It means the Restoration is exactly what it was claimed to be, and Joseph was exactly who he was claimed to be.

The only thing you guys have on Joseph is that some things still haven't been discovered yet, all the while ignoring all the things that HAVE been discovered related to the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham.
Just an example....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6bgHHm_Ubc

Read the book "Lehi in the Wilderness - 81 Evidences that the Book of Mormon is a true history" and learn something for a change. Joseph couldn't ever have known all that information. And that's just ONE subject, one area, issue, story.
And FYI, it's not actually 81 Evidences, it's at least some couple 1,000 evidences that support the 81 points from the Book of Mormon mentioned concerning Lehi's journey in the Wilderness.

Oh, and be sure to get the DVD also!

An intro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE2BqNSolps


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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:16 am 
God

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PrickKicker wrote:
Dcharle wrote:
The stone box, did Joseph now about the use of stone boxes to bury metallic plates or did he just get a lucky hit?


Ok you have my attention...

Can you expand on that?


http://www.mormonfortress.com/boxmetal.html

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... &chapid=75

http://www.lightplanet.com/Mormons/book ... lates.html

http://www.shields-research.org/Scriptures/Book of Mormon/GPUA.htm

http://www.bmaf.org/node/421


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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:27 am 
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2LDSFAQs:

Wow, Profound.
My eyes have been opened!
So let me just recap, 'Green and Yellow boxes chase away Red. ('Sounds like the Gods plan to get back at those pesky Lamanites.)

How much money has been invested in F.A.R.M.S and this is all they have proven.

Because Anti Mormon idiot came up with argument based on a dead horse, its proof its true,
Because there were some old horse bones found and Joseph Smith mentioned horses.
Because he wrote about silk and old silk has been found.
because he wrote about steel and steel was found.

Well I'll be DARNED! Its all true and He was right all along.
(Where are those longjohns with the masonic symbols stitched over the nipples? I better start wearing them again.)

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PrickKicker: I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron. But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.


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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:00 am 
God

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:41 pm
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Point is that you people have claimed MOST of these things never existed in the real world and never would, yet they've been found in the real world. You write them as one of your main "excuses" in your "exist story's", stating that because most of the stuff mentioned in the Book of Mormon hasn't been found by science, that's it's clearly false. Yet, when science is proving the claims in the Book of Mormon as true and valid, and even debunking your claims against the book, you mock like a little child. It's just like Francis Nelson Henderson that I just met, the son of a wonderful man and his family that I'm staying with. He has all the predicable "all these things don't exist" list in his 26 page exit story. Yet, many of those things HAVE been now found, but like the predictable anti-mormon, like you, people just stick there heads in the sand. Because you already "know" the Church is false, you have no need to be humble and objective, putting away unrighteous judgments and continue to study. You know it all already....

So, here we see that things have been found compared to what was known in 1830.
Thus, rather than the Book of Mormon being proven false and a fraud by scientific discovery and inquiry it is being proven true by it.

Point is, that there is so much evidence for the Restoration that people simply don't have any excuse any more. These are only a couple of things of 100,000 or more. Anti-mormons don't even have close to that many things against the Church, especially since the fact that nearly all anti-mormon claims are perversions, misrepresentations, and outright lies concerning the facts and truth.

Anyway, your childish petty mockery doesn't change these facts either.

I came back to the Church because I kept learning and finally overcame my ignorance, the same kind of ignorance as you. The fact is, the evidence is FAR for the Church rather than against as you people believe. You shut your brains off and just mock, and you will remain in your ignorant and awful state. Because only darkness seeks to destroy light.....


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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:13 am 
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What I am saying is I think that is a poor argument for or against Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon.
Logic and reasoning says wood denatures faster than stone, and so wouldn't be the most intelligent way to store treasure buried in the earth.

The facts are there is no direct physical evidence why else would God took back the plates breastplate urim and thumim, liahona, and all the real evidence.
Its all about FAITH.

You are right I do choose to be childish at times, and I know mockery does not change fact.
You make presumptions and assumptions about people, because in your mind you believe you know better.

I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron.
But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.

I opened my mind to explore other possibilities, I am trying to get others to see the light. How about you?

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PrickKicker: I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron. But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.


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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:07 am 
God
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Even a broken clock is right twice a day? :biggrin:

But seriously, I think you would need to show that all archaeological discoveries of stone boxes came later than the Book of Mormon. In other words, incorporating current technologies, discoveries, current events, historical events, etc., and using them to create an imaginary world in a work of fiction is normal. It doesn't make the work of fiction, non-fiction.

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Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI


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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:10 am 
God

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:43 am
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Dcharle wrote:
The stone box, did Joseph now about the use of stone boxes to bury metallic plates or did he just get a lucky hit?


The idea existed in Joseph's day.

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Last edited by Themis on Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:11 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:41 pm
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madeleine wrote:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day? :biggrin:

But seriously, I think you would need to show that all archaeological discoveries of stone boxes came later than the Book of Mormon. In other words, incorporating current technologies, discoveries, current events, historical events, etc., and using them to create an imaginary world in a work of fiction is normal. It doesn't make the work of fiction, non-fiction.


Read the scholarship..... All known discovery's DID come AFTER the Book of Mormon was published.
If I'm remembering right 1860 was the first known or published discovery in Greece.

All the scholars and anti-mormons for years mocked the Church and Joseph concerning metal plates with writing and stone boxes for storage of them and other items, etc.

In fact, even the Smithsonian Institution claimed in 1996 that there were no know "metal" working prior to 1492 in the America's. We all now know that to be blatantly false.

Further, this isn't the only issue.... There are HUNDREDS of evidences that have been discovered AFTER the Book of Mormon was published that support the Book of Mormon and LDS claims, that anti-mormons and science claimed never existed, let alone for other works such as the Book of Abraham etc. Most of the discovery's have occured the last 40 years, which is why anti-mormons are still so behind. They still stick their heads in the sand believing nothing support Mormon claims. Even 20 years ago when I re-researched there was a HUGE amount of evidences that along with that and more I was easily convinced to come back to the Church after being atheist/agnostic and anti-mormon anti-religion.

Study it out for yourself. The sciences have now fully validated LDS claims with plenty of evidences. Go to an LDS and start studying. I would recommend the book, "Lehi in the Wilderness - 81 New Documented Evidences" and the DVD that goes with it. What's further amazing is they actually labeled the book wrong. It's actually 81 points as mentioned in the Book of Mormon on the journey that have been validated by a couple 1,000 evidences. Lehi's entire journey has been found, perfectly matching every detail along the entire journey. Not only that, but the discovery of the "Lehianites", a people in the exact place and time they should be when Lehi would have been there according to the Book of Mormon, as well as Bountiful, on and on.


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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:16 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:41 pm
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Themis wrote:
Dcharle wrote:
The stone box, did Joseph now about the use of stone boxes to bury metallic plates or did he just get a lucky hit?


The idea exited in Joseph's day.


Not really..... I think there might have been a couple of known examples, but EVERYONE in the day didn't know about it. Most people thought everything was written on Parchment.

The "few" things that did exist in Joseph's day, the likelihood that he knew about ALL of them to make his book, when most everyone else especially in the U.S. DIDN'T know about them, and even more, that the vast majority of various other discovery's DID absolutely come after Joseph makes clear that Joseph nor anyone else wrote the book.


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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:20 pm 
God
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ldsfaqs wrote:
madeleine wrote:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day? :biggrin:

But seriously, I think you would need to show that all archaeological discoveries of stone boxes came later than the Book of Mormon. In other words, incorporating current technologies, discoveries, current events, historical events, etc., and using them to create an imaginary world in a work of fiction is normal. It doesn't make the work of fiction, non-fiction.


Read the scholarship..... All known discovery's DID come AFTER the Book of Mormon was published.
If I'm remembering right 1860 was the first known or published discovery in Greece.

All the scholars and anti-mormons for years mocked the Church and Joseph concerning metal plates with writing and stone boxes for storage of them and other items, etc.

In fact, even the Smithsonian Institution claimed in 1996 that there were no know "metal" working prior to 1492 in the America's. We all now know that to be blatantly false.

Further, this isn't the only issue.... There are HUNDREDS of evidences that have been discovered AFTER the Book of Mormon was published that support the Book of Mormon and LDS claims, that anti-mormons and science claimed never existed, let alone for other works such as the Book of Abraham etc. Most of the discovery's have occured the last 40 years, which is why anti-mormons are still so behind. They still stick their heads in the sand believing nothing support Mormon claims. Even 20 years ago when I re-researched there was a HUGE amount of evidences that along with that and more I was easily convinced to come back to the Church after being atheist/agnostic and anti-mormon anti-religion.

Study it out for yourself. The sciences have now fully validated LDS claims with plenty of evidences. Go to an LDS and start studying. I would recommend the book, "Lehi in the Wilderness - 81 New Documented Evidences" and the DVD that goes with it. What's further amazing is they actually labeled the book wrong. It's actually 81 points as mentioned in the Book of Mormon on the journey that have been validated by a couple 1,000 evidences. Lehi's entire journey has been found, perfectly matching every detail along the entire journey. Not only that, but the discovery of the "Lehianites", a people in the exact place and time they should be when Lehi would have been there according to the Book of Mormon, as well as Bountiful, on and on.


Peer reviews scientific evidence would be more useful. So-called Mormon scholarship isn't very convincing.

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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:48 pm 
God
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There is also this.

http://solomonspalding.com/SRP/SRPpap04.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:05 pm 
Savior (resurrected)
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ldsfaqs wrote:
The biggest problem with your judgment is that Joseph Smith got right at least some 100,000 "weak" AND "strong" things.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:53 pm 
God

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:43 am
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ldsfaqs wrote:

Not really..... I think there might have been a couple of known examples, but EVERYONE in the day didn't know about it. Most people thought everything was written on Parchment.

The "few" things that did exist in Joseph's day, the likelihood that he knew about ALL of them to make his book, when most everyone else especially in the U.S. DIDN'T know about them, and even more, that the vast majority of various other discovery's DID absolutely come after Joseph makes clear that Joseph nor anyone else wrote the book.


So the idea did exist, but some may not have known about it. Another-words Joseph may indeed known about the idea since is was popular in some tales of the day. As to your other claims, you would need to provide evidence for them. What discoveries came after Joseph. You admit the stone boxes and plates came before Joseph.

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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:00 pm 
God
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Themis wrote:

So the idea did exist, but some may not have known about it. Another-words Joseph may indeed known about the idea since is was popular in some tales of the day. As to your other claims, you would need to provide evidence for them. What discoveries came after Joseph. You admit the stone boxes and plates came before Joseph.


Themis, I love you, but if you type "another-words" one more time I'm gonna scream. It's "in other words" or IOW for short. :redface:

Sorry! Very, very sorry!

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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:58 pm 
God

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just me wrote:

Sorry! Very, very sorry!


No problem. I don't claim to be an English major.

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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:35 am 
God

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Themis wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:

Not really..... I think there might have been a couple of known examples, but EVERYONE in the day didn't know about it. Most people thought everything was written on Parchment.

The "few" things that did exist in Joseph's day, the likelihood that he knew about ALL of them to make his book, when most everyone else especially in the U.S. DIDN'T know about them, and even more, that the vast majority of various other discovery's DID absolutely come after Joseph makes clear that Joseph nor anyone else wrote the book.


So the idea did exist, but some may not have known about it. Another-words Joseph may indeed known about the idea since is was popular in some tales of the day. As to your other claims, you would need to provide evidence for them. What discoveries came after Joseph. You admit the stone boxes and plates came before Joseph.


Frankly I don't remember off hand the DATE of the very first discovery of plates and/or stone boxes "specifically". And a brief search, the earliest I could find was 1860.... well after Joseph Smith.

But I do remember there are PLENTY of other things that came known after Joseph for sure.
As to some examples, the fact that you aren't even aware of these things even yourself tells me maybe you aren't as "learned" as you think concerning the Church. And me, I don't regurgitate scholarship for a living. I'm a regular joe who's simply studied/study's a lot to find out things for myself. I have other talents I "regurgitate" on a whim.

Feel free to do a quick search are FAIR or Jeff Lindsay's site, etc., or Google, I'm sure you'll find some examples if it's so important for you. Of course, I'm sure you won't. I'm only relaying testimony of what I remember from my own study. You shouldn't expect people to hold your hand in the discovery of truth. I've pointed.... Now do something for a change.

And don't do the predictable anti-mormon whine, waaa waaa, the mormon made a claim and didn't provide any facts. Frankly, I post facts when I have time, and that's only maybe once a month here or there, and further, I've been doing this long enough that it doesn't matter if I or any other mormon posts facts to support their position, it's simply ignored and mocked anyway. So, forgive me if "I" choose to waste my time when "I" feel like it. The first couple of years I started doing apologetics I posted facts on almost every claim I made, and it usually took a few hours of detail and proper research, collection and posting of the data. But, like I said, it doesn't matter how much or how detailed, you people just ignore it. So, I don't waste my time like that anymore unless I'm really interested. Sorry, I've pointed, now you do something for a change.


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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:29 am 
God

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ldsfaqs wrote:
Themis wrote:

So the idea did exist, but some may not have known about it. Another-words Joseph may indeed known about the idea since is was popular in some tales of the day. As to your other claims, you would need to provide evidence for them. What discoveries came after Joseph. You admit the stone boxes and plates came before Joseph.


Frankly I don't remember off hand the DATE of the very first discovery of plates and/or stone boxes "specifically". And a brief search, the earliest I could find was 1860.... well after Joseph Smith.

But I do remember there are PLENTY of other things that came known after Joseph for sure.
As to some examples, the fact that you aren't even aware of these things even yourself tells me maybe you aren't as "learned" as you think concerning the Church. And me, I don't regurgitate scholarship for a living. I'm a regular joe who's simply studied/study's a lot to find out things for myself. I have other talents I "regurgitate" on a whim.

Feel free to do a quick search are FAIR or Jeff Lindsay's site, etc., or Google, I'm sure you'll find some examples if it's so important for you. Of course, I'm sure you won't. I'm only relaying testimony of what I remember from my own study. You shouldn't expect people to hold your hand in the discovery of truth. I've pointed.... Now do something for a change.

And don't do the predictable anti-mormon whine, waaa waaa, the mormon made a claim and didn't provide any facts. Frankly, I post facts when I have time, and that's only maybe once a month here or there, and further, I've been doing this long enough that it doesn't matter if I or any other mormon posts facts to support their position, it's simply ignored and mocked anyway. So, forgive me if "I" choose to waste my time when "I" feel like it. The first couple of years I started doing apologetics I posted facts on almost every claim I made, and it usually took a few hours of detail and proper research, collection and posting of the data. But, like I said, it doesn't matter how much or how detailed, you people just ignore it. So, I don't waste my time like that anymore unless I'm really interested. Sorry, I've pointed, now you do something for a change.


CFR

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 Post subject: Re: Stone Boxes and Metallic Plates
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:42 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
ldsfaqs wrote:
I'm lying about my OWN history while online.


First believable thing you've typed...

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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