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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:32 pm 
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honorentheos wrote:
Smokey wrote:
Now, when we look to genetic science, we find something very interesting and unique when it comes to the blue eyed gene.

All blue eyed people, and people that carry the blue eye recessive gene, are related to a single European person, who came into existence between 6,000 - 10,000 years ago.

We also see the spike of knowledge and development in the region known as the cradle of civilization, exactly where the Bible places Adam and Eve.

So while this seems like it might be written for sixth graders, or a story riddled with allegory, there are some obvious truths in the Bible that match with our secular history.

And, here you go, Res.

Res Ipsa wrote:
If you’ve ever read up on Christian Identity, it was pretty easy to see it coming.

Is that where smo’s children’s bible study workbook cut and paste is headed?
Quote:
Christian Identity (also known as Identity Christianity)[1] is a racist,[2] anti-Semitic,[2] and white supremacist interpretation of Christianity which holds that only Germanic, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Nordic, Aryan people and those of kindred blood are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and hence the descendants of the ancient Israelites.[citation needed]

... Its theology promotes a racial interpretation of Christianity.[4][5] Christian Identity beliefs were primarily developed and promoted by authors who regarded Europeans as the "chosen people" and Jews as the cursed offspring of Cain, the "serpent hybrid" or serpent seed (a belief known as the two-seedline doctrine).[1] White supremacist sects and gangs later adopted many of these teachings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity



Shades, you’re being played. It’s not a matter of not repressing unpopular opinions or showing favoritism. Racist, supremacist filth, especially when it’s titled “The Chosen,” doesn’t belong in this forum.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:37 pm 
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Lemmie, there are different species, but you’ve correctly identified the genus.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:40 pm 
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Smokey wrote:
Paul later says:

Quote:

Ephesians 5:25-28

Husbands, love your wives, even as much as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it… so ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that liveth his wife liveth himself.


Hate to be the one to break this to you, Smokes, but 1 Timothy and Ephesians weren't actually authored by Paul.

You should learn a bit more about the Bible before you come around here trying to teach everyone about what the Bible has to say about hating people.

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Last edited by honorentheos on Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:42 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
If you’ve ever read up on Christian Identity, it was pretty easy to see it coming.

It's new to me. Kinda interesting to see how fundamentalist beliefs become the breeding ground for hate on top of the inherent ignorance required to sustain them.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:44 pm 
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Gadianton wrote:
Honor, that was a good catch on the artifacts. it's interesting as he's calling everyone "boomer" as if they're out of touch with Internet technology. I don't think he knows that much, actually, aside from some lingo he picked up from one of the chans. What a person usually does in such situations is copy the text from the source, then paste into notepad to lose the formatting, and then from there paste into the destination. Dropping terminology like "Duck Duck Go" is also overreaching to present himself as a hacker. Is he watching Mr. Robot or something?

Lol! Smokes is turning out to be quite the joke.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:49 pm 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
honorentheos wrote:
I admit I never realized Aryans used the J and E authored creation stories in Genesis (that show different authorship for the various versions of the stories it contains) as evidence that God created human kind separately from Adam rather than recognizing it for what it actual is: Two different forms of the same myth put into the Torah because the priests doing the compiling weren't willing to edit the word of God and decide which was correct so they put them both in. Similar to many other stories in Genesis and the Exodus such as the Sea of Reeds/Red Sea crossing parallel stories of the escaping Hebrews from the Egyptians.

Interesting that the fundamental concatenated structure of the Torah was co-opted into such racist beliefs just because it was compiled by multiple different authors rather than being the traditional writings of Moses as the myth would have one believe.


Interesting how he ignores the neighbors myths from Babylon and Mesopotamia isn't it........ I wonder if he will continue doing so, cause he has a lot more stories coming up that aren't original to the Bible, but have been discovered in the neighborhoods... :wink:

Shhhh. He thinks the Bible was written by Moses still. Probably thinks Moses had blonde hair, too. He'll pop a vessel in his forehead if he finds out the whole of Semitic mythology was intertwined making his other racist arguments suddenly seem...uh, just shh!

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Smokey wrote:
Image

Pop quiz, Smokes. Can you correctly identify where on your pic posting this pic would be as a response? Smiley face on your paper if you also name the color correctly it's associated with on the pic.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:02 am 
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Honor wrote:
Lol! Smokes is turning out to be quite the joke.


Did you make that rhyme on purpose?

jokes
smokes
pokes
blokes

blokes in pokes.
jokes in smokes.

blokes on jokes in smokes in pokes.

smokes on blokes and blokes in pokes.

jokes in smokes on pokes on blokes.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:07 am 
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Probably not but it seems appropriate in retrospect. I like where you are going with it.

Poke a Smokes to joke a bloke.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:13 am 
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It’s hard to know where to start with this mess. Smokey’s simplistic version of genetics is out of date. Yes, blue eyes did first appear as the result of a single point gene mutation, but he plays fast and loose with the estimated dates and geographical location. But that single gene is not the sole determinant of eye color. https://hudsonalpha.org/the-genetics-of-eye-color/

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:16 am 
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Gadianton wrote:
Honor, that was a good catch on the artifacts. it's interesting as he's calling everyone "boomer" as if they're out of touch with Internet technology. I don't think he knows that much, actually, aside from some lingo he picked up from one of the chans. What a person usually does in such situations is copy the text from the source, then paste into notepad to lose the formatting, and then from there paste into the destination. Dropping terminology like "Duck Duck Go" is also overreaching to present himself as a hacker. Is he watching Mr. Robot or something?

Well he did apologize for using “internet lingo” that would need to be explained, as though he had said something technical. No computer person is going to define “duckduckgo-ing” and “Faceboomer” as technical terms however, so I’m guessing his hacking skills exist only in his mind.

Oh, and...

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:49 am 
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honorentheos wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
If you’ve ever read up on Christian Identity, it was pretty easy to see it coming.

It's new to me. Kinda interesting to see how fundamentalist beliefs become the breeding ground for hate on top of the inherent ignorance required to sustain them.


Yeah, when The Order has a shootout in your state and the Aryan Nations are one state over, it may lead one to try and understand what makes these guys tick.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:45 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
It’s hard to know where to start with this mess. Smokey’s simplistic version of genetics is out of date. Yes, blue eyes did first appear as the result of a single point gene mutation, but he plays fast and loose with the estimated dates and geographical location. But that single gene is not the sole determinant of eye color. https://hudsonalpha.org/the-genetics-of-eye-color/

Now, now, RI. Don't go mucking up Smokey's children's tale with your crazy scientific ideas. Let's see if Smokey can explain how that occurred. ; )


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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:28 am 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
The Book of Mormon makes plenty of references regarding Jews in general, so the question of whether that particular tribe is the "chosen people" by virtue of being of the House of Israel alone vs. the tribe of Ephraim being the "chosen people" by virtue of having Joseph's birthright is indeed of interest to Mormonism in general, because it carries implications regarding the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon itself.

Ergo, the opening post's subject matter has enough relevance to Mormonism to allow it to remain in this forum.


Dr. Shades,

While I appreciate all you do around here, this is really the wrong call. Do you want to help Smokey achieve what the apologists have been aching to bring about, namely equating the criticism of Mormonism with anti-semitism? By embracing this topic as worthy of one of the Three Degrees Fora here, that is what you have implicitly done. The reasoning behind this equation of criticism of Mormonism with anti-semitism is, of course, fundamentally flawed. But that doesn't change the fact that you have given the people who hate this board a nice stockpile of ammo here.

If I cannot prevail upon you to distinguish between anti-semitic identity propaganda and Mormonism, then I think you should at least move this stuff to the Telestial Forum on the grounds that its content is highly offensive in a manner comparable to posting temple content in the Terrestrial Forum. The Terrestrial Forum should preserve at least some sense of difference from the Telestial, and on the whole I think it does. If you allow anti-semitic garbage--and that's what the opening post clearly is--to stay here, then the distinction between the fora is empty and void.

Respectfully,

K

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:34 am 
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If folks are interested in a scholarly look at Christian Identity, here’s a pretty good article: https://www.jstor.org/stable/24764349

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:58 am 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
The Book of Mormon makes plenty of references regarding Jews in general, so the question of whether that particular tribe is the "chosen people" by virtue of being of the House of Israel alone vs. the tribe of Ephraim being the "chosen people" by virtue of having Joseph's birthright is indeed of interest to Mormonism in general, because it carries implications regarding the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon itself.

Ergo, the opening post's subject matter has enough relevance to Mormonism to allow it to remain in this forum.


It really doesn't. Here is what the post is really about:

Quote:
We are told that the Bible says if we curse the Jews and the state of Israel, we would be cursed and that if we bless the Jews and the state of Israel we would be blessed. Since the creation of the state of Israel, the United States has done nothing but bless the Jews and the state of Israel with money, protection, foreign aid, technology, and access to power. Hollywood - the drug and pedophile capital of the Western world - is admittedly run by Jews. Not coincidentally, Hollywood has played a key role in disconnecting Americans and Europeans from their Christian heritage.

The Jews enjoy the most powerful positions in the United States, controlling the Federal Reserve Bank, sitting on the Supreme Court, and advising every president since the creation of the Federal Reserve. Even this President’s advisor, his son-in-law, is an Orthodox Jew.

So why is it that the United States is so cursed? Why is it that the most powerful country in world history, that has blessed the state of Israel and the Jews more than any other government, is morally, physically, and spiritually bankrupt?

How can a country like the United States, that was founded on the Bible and Christianity, and its people become so disconnected from their cultural foundation — after placing so much trust in the Jews?

Why is it that when Adolf Hitler removed all the Jews in power and in banks, Nazi Germany rose from being completely destitute to the economic powerhouse of the entire world?

Well, what if the Jews aren’t Israel? What if the Jews aren’t God’s Chosen?


This isn't about Mormonism, it's about hating Jewish people. I can't even begin to explain how disgusting those comments are. How does this have anything to do with Mormonism:

Quote:
Well, what if the Jews aren’t Israel? What if the Jews aren’t God’s Chosen?


This is the focus of his thread, NOT Mormonism. This:

Quote:
Why is it that when Adolf Hitler removed all the Jews in power and in banks, Nazi Germany rose from being completely destitute to the economic powerhouse of the entire world?


He MURDERED THEM. Let's get that straight right now. HE MURDERED THEM. This is an anti-Semitic trope of the worst kind. (The Jews were Germany's problem) Plus it's not even close to the truth of what happened. It wasn't MURDERING the Jews that made Germany an economic powerhouse, it was making weapons of war (among other things). And, It was the U.S. rebuilding of Germany after the war that enabled them to continue to be an economic powerhouse to this day.

This pseudo history ____ has nothing to do with Mormonism. If it did, the piece would focus on the impact of the Jews not being the chosen people in relation to Mormonism, but it doesn't. (See his above bullet points) Please remove this from this forum and put it where it belongs, in outer darkness, because of the Jewish tropes and obvious hatred and denigration of the Jewish people. Shades, it's very offensive.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:24 am 
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Quote:
grindael:

This pseudo history ____ has nothing to do with Mormonism. If it did, the piece would focus on the impact of the Jews not being the chosen people in relation to Mormonism, but it doesn't. (See his above bullet points) Please remove this from this forum and put it where it belongs, in outer darkness, because of the Jewish tropes and obvious hatred and denigration of the Jewish people. Shades, it's very offensive.

Exactly.

Note the reference Res Ipsa gave, to explain the “Christian identity” concepts Smokey is trying to develop:

Res Ipsa wrote:
If folks are interested in a scholarly look at Christian Identity, here’s a pretty good article: https://www.jstor.org/stable/24764349


Shades the title of that article is:

The Chosen Ones: A Mythic Analysis of the Theological and Political Self-Justification of Christian Identity

And “the chosen”, just like Smokey’s title here, does not refer to the discussion you assumed was appropriate to this forum.

From the article, to give you an idea of where smo is headed with his “rhetoric of justification”:
Quote:
Its descendent, Christian Identity, has increasingly constructed a rhetoric that draws its strength and essence from hate and separation. As is the case with most movements, much energy is spent on rhetoric of self justification.

For Christian Identity, that justification is founded on arguments that seek to create a theology that not only gives permission to hate the outside world, but also actually demands, at least rhetorical violence, against the world.

We will examine and analyze Identity's self-justificatory and mythic rhetoric focusing primarily on its claim of chosen status.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:00 pm 
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To pick up where we left off yesterday, after the creation of the men and women of the Earth in Genesis chapter 1, and the creation of Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 2, Cain built the city of Enoch.

Enoch means teaching and it was in fact a city where people went to be taught. This will become the first great empire, also known as The Kingdom of Sumer.

Image

This marks the end of what secular scholars call the Ubaid period and where mankind will enter what is called the Uruk period, where farming, religion, music, alphabets, engineering, and architecture will come into play as civilization is about to erupt.

Observant readers will note that the descendants of Cain possess attributes and names that correspond, almost perfectly, with the old Gods.

We have Jabal, who became the master of animals, tents, and trade, moving from place to place. His brother, Jubal, was the father of musical instruments. We have Tubalcain, the master of metals and forging, and his sister Naamah, whose name means ‘beauty’ also known as Aphrodite or Venus. (Genesis 4:20 - 22)

It is interesting that in the religion of ancient Egypt, we have the supreme god Atum who created himself and the other gods, and we have Osiris, who just like Cain, was the God of agriculture.

The Bible says that after Cain killed his brother Abel, God appointed a new son to Adam to replace the son he had lost. This appointed son was called Seth, which means ‘appointed’.
(Genesis 4:25-26)

The ancient Egyptians recorded that the enemy of the God of Agriculture, Osiris, was his brother, Set. And so the age of religion and knowledge was born.

Quote:
Genesis 6: 1-2

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

We learn in Genesis 6 that the sons of Adam began mixing with the daughters of men. They used their knowledge to enslave mankind, proclaiming themselves to be Gods on earth, while hiding the truth about the One True God.

Quote:
Genesis 6:5 - 7

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

So God destroyed their kingdom, for their violence and their evil, and saved Noah because he was a just man, genetically perfect, who walked in the ways of God.

Quote:
Genesis 6:9

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:52 pm 
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grindael wrote:
Quote:
Why is it that when Adolf Hitler removed all the Jews in power and in banks, Nazi Germany rose from being completely destitute to the economic powerhouse of the entire world?


He MURDERED THEM. Let's get that straight right now. HE MURDERED THEM. This is an anti-Semitic trope of the worst kind. (The Jews were Germany's problem) Plus it's not even close to the truth of what happened. It wasn't MURDERING the Jews that made Germany an economic powerhouse, it was making weapons of war (among other things). And, It was the U.S. rebuilding of Germany after the war that enabled them to continue to be an economic powerhouse to this day.

This pseudo history ____ has nothing to do with Mormonism. If it did, the piece would focus on the impact of the Jews not being the chosen people in relation to Mormonism, but it doesn't. (See his above bullet points) Please remove this from this forum and put it where it belongs, in outer darkness, because of the Jewish tropes and obvious hatred and denigration of the Jewish people. Shades, it's very offensive.


Exactly. Do not do this to the board, Dr. Shades. This is not where any of us want to be, and it may be that we will not hang around to watch this board descend into this toilet bowl. And, I am very serious about this. I do not want to have any association with a public airing of anti-semitic ideas. I find anti-semitism to be utterly vile, disgusting, and unacceptable. I do not hang out where anti-semites hold forth with their poisonous views.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:54 pm 
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How many experts on Mormonism (this forum is full of them) does it take for it to sink in that this isn't about Mormonism. There is a connection but only in the most superficial way and it is being USED to denigrate a whole race of people, the focus of this hate mongering ____. Is that what this forum is all about? C'mon!

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 Post subject: Re: The Chosen (Part 1)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:54 pm 
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