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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Or you produced a detailed calendar of your activities, a journal as it were, that corroborates your whereabouts. Like Joseph Smith did. Except Joseph Smith's journal damns him while Kavanaugh's journal legitimizes his claims of innocence

But those are just mere details.

We should depend on our feelings to assess reality.

- Doc


Did you read the calendar, Cam? Do you think Smith’s journal tells it like it is and reveals all?

LOL!

Yikes.

Well, he did blubber about his dad keeping a calendar, so it must all be exactly as he claimed.


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Did you read the calendar, Cam? Do you think Smith’s journal tells it like it is and reveals all?

LOL!

Yikes.

Well, he did blubber about his dad keeping a calendar, so it must all be exactly as he claimed.


Well, his calendar was missing his notes on gangbanging drugged girls and assaulting Dr. Ford. I grant you that. Why would he note any parties he went to, but neglect not to mention, I dunno, whatever party that Dr. Ford can't seem to remember where, when, who (her witnesses denied being at any party she described), how she got there, and how she got home?

So. We have on the one hand the accused who was fairly meticulous for a teen noting his activities.

We have on the other hand the accuser who can't remember anything about the party other than Kavanaugh assaulted her.

Outside of #justbelieveher what do you want someone to do with that?

eta: And I did read the calendar. I posted screenshots of it in the thread located in the Paradise forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Well, his calendar was missing his notes on gangbanging drugged girls and assaulting Dr. Ford. I grant you that.


Well, duh! His calendar doubtless omits a lot of ____ he was up to.

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Why would he note any parties he went to, but neglect not to mention, I dunno, whatever party that Dr. Ford can't seem to remember where, when, who (her witnesses denied being at any party she described), how she got there, and how she got home?


Um, I dunno. He didn’t tell his parents about it? He wanted them to believe he was somewhere else? Are you inexperienced with teen life there, Cam?

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We have on the other hand the accuser who can't remember anything about the party other than Kavanaugh assaulted her.

Outside of #justbelieveher what do you want someone to do with that?


Shall we trust experts on trauma, or DocCam?

Hmmm.... Hmmm...

Gotta think that one over.


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:32 pm 
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What in your opinion could've exonerated Kavanaugh?

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
What in your opinion could've exonerated Kavanaugh?

- Doc


An FBI investigation concluding he could not have done it.


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
What in your opinion could've exonerated Kavanaugh?

- Doc


An FBI investigation concluding he could not have done it.


That's fair. In the other thread I just admitted I would've asked for one because my name, especially when it comes to my family, is more important than a job.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
That's fair. In the other thread I just admitted I would've asked for one because my name, especially when it comes to my family, is more important than a job.

- Doc


Kavanaugh had lots of protestations about his good name, but he seemed unwilling to do what it would take to clear it. He would rather let people believe that either he or Ford is lying, so long as he gets on Supreme Court. Still the good soldier, he is. Making sure that NRA money was well spent.

In any case, it is sadly funny to see Republicans rush to ram this guy through because they fear an election after McConnell’s empty posturing about democracy in connection with Merrick Garland. What a bunch of hypocrites. I really feel sad for the folks who believe their ____.


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Whoa there, Grindael. Ease off the indignation.


I would if you would stop calling me a liar. And your quote of mine was in RESPONSE to what someone else had written. Again, the OP wasn't intended to be political. But of course you will call me a liar based on your own faulty interpretations. :rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:12 pm 
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grindael wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Whoa there, Grindael. Ease off the indignation.


I would if you would stop calling me a liar. And your quote of mine was in RESPONSE to what someone else had written. Again, the OP wasn't intended to be political. But of course you will call me a liar based on your own faulty interpretations. :rolleyes:


I'm just going off what you posted. I'm not sure how you think a thread titled the way it is and then various posts discussing the politics isn't political. It's inherently political. The subject and subject matter is political. It's not like you're discussing philosophy here.

Anyway, I see you're entrenched, and I'm entrenched viewing the thread through the lens of politics. I definitely don't think you're a liar, but I do think you're making a leap to discuss Kavanaugh on the Terrestrial forum. Note:

grindael wrote:
Oh poor, poor Dan Peterson. The whining just never stops. And Franken was just accused of having wandering hands during photos, not doing a Cosby on women, and still had the dignity to resign, something that Kavanaugh knows nothing about.

And really, if Dan is so gung ho for FAIRNESS and DUE PROCESS, why is he not giving the women a fair shake by calling for an FBI investigation? Isn't he supporting Kavanaugh BEFORE all the evidence is in? The WOMEN are ASKING FOR AN INVESTIGATION. Where is Peterson's ire for THEM?

Nowhere to be found. Just another male chauvinist dick.


That's straight up political in keeping the theme of the thread.

That said, you also bring the conversation back around to Smith quite a bit. And as always, your resourcing and commenting on Smith is top notch. No one is better.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:56 am 
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Don't worry Cam, this thread will be outta here soon. I don't like my motives to be questioned, and as I said over and over again, I put this thread in this forum because I thought it a legit comparison.

But the snide childish comments I could have done without from you, and even though I can be stubborn at times, I would have happily had it moved right away if you had simply asked me nicely instead of poking me continually with silly patronizing comparisons and questions.

Instead, I went down the path of trying to explain myself, thinking that I would be taken seriously, as I'm not in the habit of trying to be deceptive about sticking threads where they don't belong.

Maybe I didn't think it all through enough, it was kind of a spur of the moment thing, I heard what I did on TV and was struck by the language thinking I had heard something like it before from Smith and thought it interesting. And I don't mind debating the comparison, I've been wrong before, but you had to make it personal.

But heaven help me, I made the horrible gaffe of posting it in the wrong damn forum and so have had to read this kind of crap:

Quote:
...drawing a parallel to Joseph Smith .... is just political cynicism with a veneer of parallelism [s]o it can be discussed on the Terrestrial forum.


Wow, I didn't know I was such a ____. You win. I'm out, and have asked Shades to get rid of it. This board certainly doesn't need such deceptive "____" littering it's hallowed kingdoms.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:15 am 
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There are reasons why Smith and Young and others had the social momentum to continue violations of human rights cloaked in reverance. We're seeing what I am sure is similar dynamics playing out with the Kavanaugh hearings. Where Joseph had the claim to divine authority, Kavanaugh has partisan bias refusing the reasonable examination via an FBI investigation. People can be just as zealous in their politics as their religion, even moreso.

I've been thinking about my sister's wedding lunch today. I sat next to my sister's new father-in-law, whom I had met two hours earlier. Since he is a long-haul trucker, I asked him if he'd had many experiences with crazy driving. Little did I know that my love for my sister and her important day was about to be tested.

The man at my side started to relate an incident when a woman with children in a minivan cut him off in traffic. Full of righteous indignation, moments later he found a way to catch up with her vehicle and block her car with his truck. That's right, he stopped her on the road. Having cornered her vehicle with his own, he got out with his firearm, and walked around to her vehicle.

That's when he verbally lambasted her for her reckless driving, saying he would pull out her children, rape and shoot them, and then rape and shoot her. "Of course, I don't have a violent bone in my body and I wouldn't have hurt anyone," he insisted to me in an aside. Then, seeing her terror and tears, he decided his message had hit its target. And believing he had succeeded at effectively deterring future reckless driving, he went on his way.

I don't remember exactly what I said, but I did not challenge him. I do remember that I tried to be understanding. I remember struggling to say anything. In my mind, the only appropriate response to his story is vehement disgust, calling him to the carpet for his shameful treatment of this woman.

Yet to do so meant disrupting my sister's wedding day while also verbally challenging an armed, larger, unpredictable stranger.

Later that evening, after helping prepare for the reception the newlyweds would be hosting in their home the next day, I joined them for a drink and music. We sat on the deck around the fire pit, having the longest conversation I'd had with my sister in decades, maybe forever. At one point, she and her new husband both apologized for the FIL. They hadn't even heard our conversation, but they had already worried about what he might say before the lunch. They had anticipated him saying something horrible, but having his mother there at their wedding lunch meant that her husband--her second husband, not his father--would be there, too.

So, this is just another example of situations people might experience and why they don't speak up. Sometimes it's the guy with the big gun. Sometimes its the guy whose welfare is intertwined with many innocent people whose lives you don't want to disrupt. Sometimes the victim is exercising way more charity to their attacker and the attackers loved ones than was ever extended to them.

Just as we are willing to learn history the church would rather not tell us, shouldn't we exercise some rational examination of Kavanaugh before appointing him to the Supreme court for the rest of his life? Our is our political zeal too blind for that?

How about we learn something from the religious indoctrination of our pasts?


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:50 am 
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What I have learned is that anytime a group of people embraces an alternate reality and falls in line behind an alpha male with authoritarian tendencies and bogus promises, get ready for cult time. Anyone who imagines that opposition to such a situation is “partisan” has already been hoodwinked. They may not have bought in a hundred percent, but they have been effectively neutralized as a threat to the cult.


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:18 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
What I have learned is that anytime a group of people embraces an alternate reality and falls in line behind an alpha male with authoritarian tendencies and bogus promises, get ready for cult time. Anyone who imagines that opposition to such a situation is “partisan” has already been hoodwinked. They may not have bought in a hundred percent, but they have been effectively neutralized as a threat to the cult.


I think the problem of cult like adherence to one position or another can be said of both sides. Democrats weren't really doing much to stop Kavanaugh until progressives loudly complained. Why did Feinstein not do anything with Ms. Ford's information for so long? Couldn't Feinstein have asked for the FBI investigation in July? It could have been done and still protected Ms. Ford's anonymity for a while. However, if one makes these kind of accusations against a public figure, certainly that person should expect public scrutiny and eventually Ms. Ford would have had to come before the committee.

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Last edited by Exiled on Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:05 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
What in your opinion could've exonerated Kavanaugh?

- Doc


An FBI investigation concluding he could not have done it.

I simply cannot believe that you are this past feeling and reason. Just as I cannot believe it possible that someone in DCP's position, or the position of the Q15, can possibly be genuinely ignorant enough to honorably say the things that they say. There must be some level of dishonesty at work. It is the same right now with you.

How many times have I witnessed you speak to the rigor and discipline of history on this forum? How to fairly and competently deal with evidence, witness testimony. Logical fallacies, burden of proof. Basic matters of logic like the inability to prove a negative, and the shameless dishonesty of apologists who leverage such tactics to pull the wool over ignorant eyes.

How often around here has brain science been discussed, the research of people like Loftus, how memories can be altered, spiritual experiences manufactured, unreliability of testimony, how people can genuinely and passionately believe all kinds of crazy ____ that never happened, etc.

Now here you are, doing the same. An apologist for your abortion cult.

If you assert the existence of unicorns, that's for you to corroborate. It's not for Kavanaugh, the FBI, or anybody else to disprove. And you know damn well, because it's only been pointed out about a thousand times, even by Joe Biden circa Clarence Thomas 1991, that this isn't what the FBI does. You're smarter than that. They do not corroborate or in any way adjudicate accusations. They are nothing more than a data collection service. They can go interview people, write up a report, and then hand it over to whoever the authoritative body is... in this case the Senate.

What would they investigate other than that which has been investigated already? You have an accusation, in which every single person named has denied the allegation under oath, under penalty of a felony, under penalty of federal prison time. No date, no place, no nothing. No additional details whatsoever that would lend to an investigation. And a mountain of details that challenge the accusations. Kavanaugh's calendars are compelling. He wasn't there, it limits the available times in which something like that could have happened. The physical locations, proximities of houses and such, don't add up. The social network also doesn't make sense, they weren't friends, they didn't know each other, and ran in very different circles. His relationships with other girls contradict this sort of behavior. Everything strongly refutes this woman's accusations. As many prosecutors and litigators have stated, including the woman Mitchell who did the questioning yesterday, there isn't enough to even justify a search warrant. Wipe the foam dripping off your mouth for a moment and let that sink in.

Where is consig? Isn't he a criminal defense attorney? I remember him expressing skepticism over the Denson accusations initially. And that was even with an audio recording. He had to listen, over and over, and really parse out the details before he believed her. And after others came forward confirming things like the existence of the basement room in the MTC. I'm very curious what he would have to say about all this. Consig, what's your opinion of this Avenatti character? What's your opinion of Ford's allegations in the context of exculpatory sworn testimony? Is there anything to pursue here, worth pursuing?

Additionally, despite all this, the FBI has in a manner or sorts investigated already. Through numerous through background checks, and by responding to these specific allegations as well, saying, there is nothing there sufficient to justify opening any investigation and they addended these allegations and their reaction to them to his recent background investigation.


And please, just stop. Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. Don't insult my intelligence. This is all about delay delay delay. You know it. I know it. Don't play these ____ ____ games. You want to delay until after midterms, your Hail Mary play. Sorry, not falling for it. You can continue to pursue these allegations after his confirmation. Find some evidence, you can get Kavanaugh impeached. And imprisoned.

Moreover, the statute of limitations isn't even expired. Dr. Ford is free to walk into the Maryland police department and tell her story. They are free to open any investigation they like, and he can still be criminally prosecuted. And now, thanks to all the Senate testimony, he can he federally charged as well. Give me a call when Maryland police open an investigation. We're all waiting.

Your behavior here is nothing short of reprehensible. You are a party to using this poor woman, Dr. Ford, for your own self serving agenda.

Did you actually watch the hearing yesterday? Beginning to end? If you actually watched it, and are now here saying the things you're saying, boy, wow, you are inhuman. What kind of sociopath are you, seriously? What transpired there is objectively obvious to anybody with basic functioning human emotions.

If Kavanaugh was lying, my god, give that man an Oscar. That comes about as close to proving a negative, disproving these allegations, as could be conceivably possible.

That poor woman. Absolutely heartbreaking. This is a woman who so obviously has big problems. She needs love and therapists. Probably on drugs right then and there. Something, several things, were very off with her. A total mess. Democrats trot her out on the national stage to be humiliated and used.

Here you are, comparing Kavanaugh to Joseph Smith of all people. Haha. Spewing out all kinds of venom, speaking about cults and Trump. The eff are you talking about? Revealing your true agenda is all your doing. All these words, none of it having anything to do with Kavanaugh at all. You're totally deranged and obsessed with Trump. Completely willing to destroy this poor woman, Ford, and this innocent man, Kavanaugh, to feed your hatred.

I don't understand how Trump manages to get under your skin at such a deep and profound level. The fact that he's able to only confirms to me that he was the right guy for the job. I am not, in any way shape or form, obsessed with Trump or in some kind of personality cult.

You're a lunatic.

Trump appointed a guy that is eminently qualified for the Supreme Court. You've got even President Bush calling up guys like Flake whipping votes on his behalf. You show me a conservative voice anywhere, #NeverTrump, Jonah Golberg, that ____ David French, whoever, that has a substantive argument against Kavanaugh's appointment on the merits. There isn't one. But you've got this #Resist schtick and act like Kavanaugh must be opposed by any method because Cult of Trump, or something.

WTF are you talking about?

You're proving all the "wacky" conservative paranoias true. You are so obsessed with power you'll do ANYTHING. Literally. Why so obsessed with the Supreme Court? The meltdown. OMG, the sky is falling, we can't allow someone impartial who will rule based on the meaning of the text! We must have someone who will inject politics and social activism into their interpretations! This level of resistance proves our fears true. You people will lie, cheat, and steal. Fundamentally dishonest at your core, and have no respect for democracy or the individual.

And this is why you will continue to lose. This is why Trump. Because you lack the basic temperament to participate in reasonable discussions. You leave us no option but to get the clubs out.

This current debacle is YOUR FAULT. The only reason we're in this situation now is because the nuclear option was involved with Gorsuch. And why? Because of the democrats. If Democrats hadn't had a #resist at all costs attitude, Gorsuch would have easily passed with bipartisan support. But Democrats wouldn't allow that. So nuclear, and party line vote. If you had saved your filibuster nonsense, you could have deployed it right here and now for Kavanaugh instead. Folks like Flake and Collins and Sasse would have then easily been persuaded to side with the democrats and would have opposed a nuclear option on #MuhPrinciples.

Your fanaticism has caused all that has transpired. From Trump, to Gorsuch, now to Kavanaugh. Tick tock RBG! And Kavanaugh, goodness, wow y'all jumped the shark. Y'all could have made these bogus allegations work if you hadn't pushed it so hard. That spectacle yesterday was so reprehensible, you put all Republicans, and even some Democrats, in a situation where they have no choice but to vote for Kavanaugh. It's no longer even about his qualifications, if there was any remaining debate or legitimate disagreement to be had there. It's WW2 now. You're either with us, or the Nazis.

In one afternoon the Democrats managed to unite Republicans, something nobody else has been able to do, and destroy the #metoo movement at the same time. And probably gave us the House for Trump's full term as well. Haha. Thank you. Great job!


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:32 am 
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Well, the obvious result of using the nuclear option by both parties is that the 60-member rule will just go away. I'm not sure how that'll affect the Senate moving forward, but we'll see how it works next week, for sure.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:53 am 
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As an interesting aside, and trying to keep this connected to Smith and his abuse of women. Note how women also shame women for the way they dress, in this case Alyssa Milano:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/alyssa- ... 21427.html

This makes me wonder how much women played into a corralling other women for their men's use in early Mormonism.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:59 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Well, his calendar was missing his notes on gangbanging drugged girls and assaulting Dr. Ford. I grant you that.


Well, duh! His calendar doubtless omits a lot of ____ he was up to.


It's kind of clear to me you didn't watch the circus yesterday. Judge Kavanaugh walked the committee through his day-to-day activities that were outlined on the calendar. He just wasn't in the area the days that Dr. Ford suggested he was there. I thought that was pretty compelling.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:10 am 
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The calendar seems to offer a plausible window and corroborate details Ford released already:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... judge.html


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:13 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
As an interesting aside, and trying to keep this connected to Smith and his abuse of women. Note how women also shame women for the way they dress, in this case Alyssa Milano:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/alyssa- ... 21427.html

This makes me wonder how much women played into a corralling other women for their men's use in early Mormonism.

- Doc


Of course. When women are essentially property, pleasing the patriarchy becomes their hard currency. Eliza seems to have been an effective enforcer for Brigham.


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:27 am 
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Meadowchik wrote:
The calendar seems to offer a plausible window and corroborate details Ford released already:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... judge.html


I think one of the big misses from the Democrats is they never asked him if there were parties or events that he attended, but didn't log into his calendar.

eta: I also thought it was a bit odd they didn't press him on why he was grounded so much. Lol.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh & Joseph Smith
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:53 am 
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I think this mystery is better understood as Kavanaugh being a beltway insider that the establishment wants. The democrats were forced to put up a fight because the progressive left demanded it and this was simply a dog and pony show to appease the progressives. I wonder who leaked the Ford information from Feinstein's camp? Perhaps her chinese driver who happened to be passing secrets to the chinese government for years? lol? https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Sen-Feinstein-had-a-Chinese-connection-she-13121441.php

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