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 Post subject: Tobin Syndrome posts from ''Inconsistent Stories''
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:10 pm 
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grindael wrote:
There are so many inconsistencies in these stories that it is hard to take any of it seriously.

At the end of the day, grindael, it's like President HInckley said:

Quote:
“The evidence for [the Book of Mormon’s] truth and validity lies within the covers of the book itself. The test of its truth lies in reading it. It is a book of God. … Those who have read it prayerfully have come to know by a power beyond their natural senses that it is true, that it contains the word of God, that it outlines saving truths of the everlasting gospel.”
https://www.LDS.org/liahona/2010/03/sea ... h?lang=eng

Parley P. Pratt, I suppose, would be one of the first 'primaries' to represent this class of believers.

Quote:
This book, he said, purported to have been originally written on plates either of gold or brass, by a branch of the tribes of Israel; and to have been discovered and translated by a young man near Palmyra, in the State of New York, by the aid of visions, or the ministry of angels. I inquired of him how or where the book was to be obtained. He promised me the perusal of it, at his house the next day. … Next morning I called at his house, where, for the first time, my eyes beheld the ‘BOOK OF Mormon’—that book of books … which was the principal means, in the hands of God, of directing the entire course of my future life.

Parley P. Pratt reading
The Book of Mormon had a profound effect on Parley P. Pratt, who later became an Apostle.

“I opened it with eagerness, and read its title page. I then read the testimony of several witnesses in relation to the manner of its being found and translated. After this I commenced its contents by course. I read all day; eating was a burden, I had no desire for food; sleep was a burden when the night came, for I preferred reading to sleep.

“As I read, the spirit of the Lord was upon me, and I knew and comprehended that the book was true, as plainly and manifestly as a man comprehends and knows that he exists.” (Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, 3rd ed., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1938, pp. 36–37.)

Parley Pratt was then twenty-three years of age. Reading the Book of Mormon affected him so profoundly that he was soon baptized into the Church and became one of its most effective and powerful advocates. …

Parley Pratt’s experience with the Book of Mormon was not unique. As the volumes of the first edition were circulated and read, strong men and women by the hundreds were so deeply touched that they gave up everything they owned, and in the years that followed, not a few gave their lives for the witness they carried in their hearts of the truth of this remarkable volume.
https://www.LDS.org/manual/teachings-of ... n?lang=eng

You can wear out your life trying to disprove the BofM...which apparently you are well on your way to doing. In my opinion there will always continue to be evidence/counter evidence.

You are playing out your part/purpose in the scheme of things.

I know you want this thread to go other directions...so I'll leave you to it. :smile:

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:18 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
You can wear out your life trying to disprove the BofM...which apparently you are well on your way to doing. In my opinion there will always continue to be evidence/counter evidence.


Sorry but it has been disproved. He is just helping to expose the evidence for others to see.

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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:59 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
At the end of the day, grindael, it's like President HInckley said:

Quote:
“The evidence for [the Book of Mormon’s] truth and validity lies within the covers of the book itself. The test of its truth lies in reading it. It is a book of God. … Those who have read it prayerfully have come to know by a power beyond their natural senses that it is true, that it contains the word of God, that it outlines saving truths of the everlasting gospel.”
https://www.LDS.org/liahona/2010/03/sea ... h?lang=eng
[bolding added]
....and yet, less than half an hour later...
mentalgymnast wrote:
I wouldn't use "The Spirit" as the final say all/end all in regards to whether or not a testimony is or isn't valid and/or based upon what may be absolute capital T truth.
....So I'm not one to place all the eggs in one basket.
[bolding added]

above is from the thread ihaq comments on:
I have a question wrote:
["From Whence Come Spiritual Experiences?" viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47259 is]...a very interesting thread and one which can be referenced each and every time someone relies upon The Spirit in terms of defending a religious position.

Too soon? :lol: :lol:
grindael wrote:
There are so many inconsistencies in these stories that it is hard to take any of it seriously.

Well said.


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:05 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
...and yet, less than half an hour later...


Hi Lemmie, notice that I gave Parley P. Pratt's narrative as an example of how in many cases the power and message of the BofM comes to rest solidly in the minds and hearts of those that gain a testimony of its truthfulness.

You may, as a matter of fact, failed to notice the point I was making. That is, that the evidences for and against the BofM are and have been 'in play' for many years now.

At the end of the day, we are left with President Hinckley's words in regards to belief and/or testimony in the BofM. It is from the printed pages within the covers of the BofM that we will gain whatever degree of testimony we have. Some will have a powerful and deep rooted experience as Parley P. Pratt did. Others will find that their testimony comes through the quiet whispering of the Spirit or the feelings within the heart and mind.

That being the case, grindael's efforts will, in the end, only provide one perspective. But it is a needed perspective. Without varying and often conflicting perspectives choices can't be made. I believe that life consists of a series of choices and that these choices need to be made between opposites that each have their own evidence and/or foundational underpinnings.

You are able to make choices, which you have...and I am able to make choices, which I have. I am able to see how and why you have made the choices that you have in respect to your beliefs about the restoration narrative. The more interesting question, at least in my mind, is why you feel it necessary to look for 'chinks in the armor' of those that believe in and/or have a hope in the truthfulness/actuality of the restoration.

As I said in my initial post on this thread, I think grindael would like to see this thread go other directions, so I'm willing to bow out. I simply wanted to respond and make a point that I think needs to be taken under consideration.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:20 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
...and yet, less than half an hour later...


Hi Lemmie, notice that I gave Parley P. Pratt's narrative as an example of how in many cases the power and message of the BofM comes to rest solidly in the minds and hearts of those that gain a testimony of its truthfulness.

My comment had nothing to do with your quote of pratt's narrative. Here is the context you left out when you partially quoted me:
Lemmie wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:
At the end of the day, grindael, it's like President HInckley said:
“… Those who have read it prayerfully have come to know by a power beyond their natural senses that it is true..."
https://www.LDS.org/liahona/2010/03/sea ... h?lang=eng
[bolding added]

....and yet, less than half an hour later...
mentalgymnast wrote:
I wouldn't use "The Spirit" as the final say all/end all....So I'm not one to place all the eggs in one basket.
[bolding added]

above is from the thread ihaq comments on:
I have a question wrote:
["From Whence Come Spiritual Experiences?" viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47259 is]
...a very interesting thread and one which can be referenced each and every time someone relies upon The Spirit in terms of defending a religious position.



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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:21 am 
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This was the same Parley Pratt who said THIS??????

Quote:
Concerning prophecy, he remarks that "it cannot be proved, that one prediction in that book, which is not taken from the bible, was written before the event, said to be described." Again he says, "there are no predictions, peculiar to this book, yet to be fulfilled, no names of persons or places, or periods of time, are referred to, by which anything definite can be known, as to what is meant by the jargon of Mormon Prophets." Now, Mr. La Roy Sunderland, we will prove to the world that this in one of the most barefaced falsehoods ever uttered by man. The Book of Mormon contains many prophecies, yet future, with names, places, and dates, so definite, that a child may understand; indeed, it is one of the peculiar characteristics of the Book of Mormon, that its predictions are plain, simple, definite, literal, positive and very express, as to the time of their fulfilment. Notice a prediction of Nephi, page 125, second edition. "For after the book of which I have spoken, shall come forth, and be written unto the Gentiles, and sealed up again unto the Lord, there shall be many, which shall believe the words which are written, and they shall carry them forth, unto the remnant of our seed, (the Indians) and then shall the remnant of our seed know concerning us; how that we came on from Jerusalem; and that they are the descendants of the Jews; and the gospel of Jesus Christ, shall be declared among them; wherefore they shall be restored unto the knowledge of their fathers; and also to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, which was had among their fathers; and then shall they rejoice for they shall know, that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God. And their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and delightsome people. And it shall come to pass that the Jews which are scattered also shall begin to believe in Christ; and they shall begin to gather in upon the face of the land; and as many as shall believe in Christ, shall also be a delightsome people; and it shall come to pass, that the Lord God shall commence his work among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, to bring about the restoration of his people upon the earth. * * * For the time speedily cometh, that the Lord God shall cause a great division among the people, and the wicked will he destroy, and he will spare his people."

Also page 121, 2d edition. "Behold that great and abominable church, the whore of all the earth, must tumble to the earth, and great must be the fall thereof: for the kingdom of the devil must shake; and they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance. or the devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger and perish; for behold at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good."Also, page 122 2nd edition. "Woe unto all those who tremble and are angry, because of the truth of God; for behold he that is built upon the rock, receiveth it with gladness; and he that is built upon a sandy foundation trembleth, lest he shall fall." Also. page 123 2nd edition. "Woe be unto the Gentiles, says the Lord God of Hosts; for notwithstanding I shall lengthen out my arm unto them from day to day, they will deny me." See also, page 514, and read the fate of our nation, and the fate of the Indians of America; in the day that the Gentiles should reject the fullness of the gospel.--(The Book of Mormon.) See also, page 526, where a sign is given, and the time clearly set for the restoration and gathering of Israel from their long dispersion, namely, the coming forth the Book of Mormon, should be the sign; and in the day this work should come forth, should this great event commence among all nations. Also, p. 527, where all who will not hearken to the Book of Mormon, shall be cut off from among the people; and that too, in the day it comes forth to the Gentiles and is rejected by them. And not only does this page set the time for the overthrow of our government and all other Gentile governments on the American continent, but the way and means of this utter destruction are clearly foretold; namely, the remnant of Jacob will go through among the Gentiles and tear them in pieces. like a lion among the flocks of sheep. Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off. This destruction includes an utter overthrow, and desolation of all our Cities, Forts, and Strong Folds--an entire annihilation of our race, except such as embrace the Covenant, and are numbered with Israel.

Now, Mr. Sunderland, you have something definite and tangible, the time, the manner, the means, the names, the dates; and I will state as a prophecy, that there will not be an unbelieving Gentile upon this continent 50 years hence; and if they are not greatly scourged, and in a great measure overthrown, within five or ten years from this date, then the Book of Mormon will have proved itself false. And furthermore, as Mr. LaRoy Sunderland has lied concerning the truth of Heaven, the fulness of the Gospel; and has blasphemed against the word of God, except he speedily repent, and acknowledge his lying and wickedness, and obey the message of eternal truth, which God has sent for the salvation of his people. God will smite him dumb, that he can no longer speak great swelling words against the Lord; and a trembling shall seize his nerves, that he shall not be able to write; and Zion’s Watchman shall cease to be published abroad, and its lies shall no longer deceive the public; and he will wander a vagabond on the earth, until sudden destruction shall overtake him; and if Mr. La Roy Sunderland enquires, when shall these things be? I reply, it is nigh thee--even at thy doors; and I say this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

I hope Mr. Sunderland, will no more complain of the jargon of the Mormon Prophets being unintelligible or indefinite. (Parley P. Pratt, Mormonism Unveiled, p.15 - p.16)


According to Pratt, the Book of Mormon has already proven itself false. But you don't want to hear that, do you Mental? Instead of presenting REAL EVIDENCE, you make it totally ad hominem, attacking me instead. You are a phony and a liar. The "prophets" you quote are ALL INCONSISTENT liars. They can't get any of their stories straight. But will you provide a RATIONAL reason why? No, you won't. Just more apologetic blather. Your remarks are truly offensive, but that is how you roll. I'm simply comparing accounts and commenting on inconsistencies. YOU have to attack any person who does this by trying to claim you know what people's motives are. YOU DON'T. You have no special powers, no "priesthood" (Just like Pratt had none, for his "curse" on Sunderland came to NOTHING). Your an anonymous troll. You had ANOTHER chance to try and legitimately explain all this, but nope, you took the low road. AGAIN. It's all you do.

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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:30 am 
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Quote:
That being the case, grindael's efforts will, in the end, only provide one perspective.


No, I provide EVIDENCE, you provide opinions from Apologists that you cut and paste here. You research NOTHING. You provide NO EVIDENCE to rebut any of these conflicts. You rely on BLIND FAITH. That's your prerogative, but don't act like it means anything more than your own self gratification.

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"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:34 am 
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grindael wrote:
...will you provide a RATIONAL reason why? ...

Hi grindael, you continually come back to "rational" thinking.

Might I suggest you listen to this podcast?

https://onbeing.org/programs/daniel-kah ... r-oct2017/

You are not being rational. It's not humanly possible.

Again, I would just as well let you go down the road that you would like to on this thread. I was simply making a point that I believed needed to be made before you traveled down your chosen path any further.

But I'm not stopping you. :wink: Carry on.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:34 am 
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Quote:
You can wear out your life trying to disprove the BofM...which apparently you are well on your way to doing.


You are a ____ asshole. I'm actually writing a book and researching it and these are inconsistencies I've come across. What have you done? What have you published? NOTHING. You can cat call from the peanut gallery and try to smear me all you want, but you have no ground to stand on. I've built a reputation as a researcher of Mormon History, while you are cutting and pasting Apologist garbage because you don't have the discipline to do your own research. I have publishers clamoring for my work, while all you have is farts in the wind.

EDIT: FOR THOSE READING THIS THREAD, THE NEXT FEW PAGES ARE MENTAL TROLLING THE THREAD, PLEASE SKIP AHEAD TO HERE, WHERE IT CAN HOPEFULLY GET BACK TO THE OP. viewtopic.php?p=1085900#p1085900

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"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


Last edited by grindael on Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:44 am 
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grindael wrote:
I have publishers clamoring for my work, while all you have is farts in the wind.


I can appreciate your point of view. I'm simply pointing out that I believe very strongly that it is you who is farting into the wind. And that you will wear out your life doing so.

But that's OK.

As I've mentioned, you need to do what you do. It's necessary, at least in my opinion. Although, truth be told, some folks may smell a stench in the air as you do so. :wink: And they will respond appropriately if they are able to do so.

People of all stripes are able to then make choices based upon 'further light and knowledge' and compare and contrast evidences coming from various sources. First hand accounts, and also through the biases/prejudices of others.

That's the way it should be.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:51 am 
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mentalgymnast, in deference to Dr. Shades's Jubilee pronouncements, I would like to request that you stop trolling grindael on a thread he started. He has posted facts and information, and you are clearly posting only with the intent to provoke.
mentalgymnast wrote:
As I said in my initial post on this thread, I think grindael would like to see this thread go other directions, so I'm willing to bow out.
You have trolled grindael twice more after you wrote the above.

please keep your word and bow out.


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:00 am 
Dragon
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mentalgymnast wrote:
grindael wrote:
...will you provide a RATIONAL reason why? ...


Hi grindael, you continually come back to "rational" thinking.

Might I suggest you listen to this podcast?

https://onbeing.org/programs/daniel-kah ... r-oct2017/

You are not being rational. It's not humanly possible.

Again, I would just as well let you go down the road that you would like to on this thread. I was simply making a point that I believed needed to be made before you traveled down your chosen path any further.


You are conflating two different things. (No surprise there). It IS possible to make RATIONAL OBSERVATIONS about data. Hence the definition of RATIONAL:

Quote:
based on or in accordance with reason or logic.



From your link,

Quote:
He won the Nobel Prize in economics for his part in creating the field of behavioral economics. It acknowledges, as classic western economics did not, that we are not always logical and rational in our economic lives.


How is it "impossible" when the article states that we are "not always"? That implies that we CAN BE. Here is what he says,

Quote:
When I ask you about something that you believe in — whether you believe or don’t believe in climate change or whether you believe in some political position or other — as soon as I raise the question why, you have answers. Reasons come to your mind. But the way that I would see this is that the reasons may have very little to do with the real causes of your beliefs. So the real cause of your belief in a political position, whether conservative or radical left, the real causes are rooted in your personal history. They’re rooted in who are the people that you trusted and what they seemed to believe in, and it has very little to do with the reasons that come to your mind, why your position is correct and the position of the other side is nonsensical. And we take the reasons that people give for their actions and beliefs, and our own reasons for our actions and beliefs, much too seriously.

Ms. Tippett: Right, and we duel with them, and we’re not actually talking about —

Mr. Kahneman: Yeah, and it’s a game, because even if you did destroy the arguments that people raise for their beliefs, it wouldn’t change their beliefs. They would just find other arguments.


This is NOT what I am doing, it is what YOU are doing. He is not claiming that people CAN'T BE RATIONAL, but that sometimes they are not being rational. In fact, he describes YOU to a TEE. You have mischaracterized his argument (no surprise there) because you simply googled "rational" and found something you THOUGHT would back up what you wanted to say. IT DOESN'T. You really are a d***a**.

Quote:
Mr. Kahneman: Well, the concept of rationality is a technical, mathematical concept. It’s illogic. And it is actually completely not possible for a finite human mind to be rational or to obey the axioms of rationality. You’d have to know too much. The difficulty of being consistent in all your beliefs is impossible. And if you are not consistent in all your beliefs, you can be trapped in an inconsistency, and then you are not rational. So the concept of rationality, the technical concept of rationality, is psychologically nonsense. And I don’t think we ever claimed to have demonstrated that people are irrational. I really don’t like that label.


I'm not speaking of the TECHNICAL concept of rationality. You can't give ANY evidence that I have the motives you claim I do. Therefore your whole argument here is a red herring.

People can RATIONALLY discuss evidence. But you won't do that. You want to inject ad hominem into everything. And then when you lose the argument you do what Kahneman says, you just make up a new argument because to you there is nothing that will ever change your view about Mormonism. You base it all on subjective feelings. Everything that Kahneman says creates problems FOR YOU.

Nice job shooting yourself in the foot. Again. d***a**. You do know there is a difference between BELIEF and EVIDENCE? Don't you?

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"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


Last edited by grindael on Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:08 am 
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Quote:
I can appreciate your point of view. I'm simply pointing out that I believe very strongly that it is you who is farting into the wind. And that you will wear out your life doing so.

But that's OK.

As I've mentioned, you need to do what you do. It's necessary, at least in my opinion. Although, truth be told, some folks may smell a stench in the air as you do so. :wink: And they will respond appropriately if they are able to do so.

People of all stripes are able to then make choices based upon 'further light and knowledge' and compare and contrast evidences coming from various sources. First hand accounts, and also through the biases/prejudices of others.


You have never given any "further light and knowledge" to ANYONE. Just rambling incoherency. And here you go again being a mind reader. You know nothing about me. You never did. I don't NEED to do anything. I do what I want. You, on the other hand are so insecure, so morally bankrupt, that all you can do is attack the PERSON to make yourself feel good. Again, where is your evidence to overturn ANY of mine? Nowhere to be found. Instead, you divert this into another ad hominem troll attack. You don't know anything about biases and prejudices because YOU DO NO RESEARCH. So this, coming from you, is a ____ joke.

Way to go. The only thing that stinks here, is you.

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"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:20 am 
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You want to see what a TROLL Mental is? Here he is RECENTLY on another thread...

Quote:
But I still try to be as rational as I can. But I'm not perfectly so.

Quote:
DrW wrote:
While overall, you seem to want to appear agreeable and rational...

Mental wrote:
Actually, I am. viewtopic.php?p=1083311#p1083311


Yet he tells me that rationality is IMPOSSIBLE. He's simply a ____ liar. And a troll. He changes his beliefs to suit his arguments. It's all FARTS IN THE WIND. Can anyone believe ANYTHING this TROLL says? Especially about the Book of Mormon? He lies like it's second nature. You know he's lying about EVERYTHING.

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"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:28 am 
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Let's resist the derailment of this thread? Very interested in the OP.

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To those already disposed to suspect authority, what can be more persuasive than ideas that authority itself rejects? --Michael Barkun


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:28 am 
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Mental will focus on ad hominem and I'll bet that he won't ever address that one of his "PROPHETS" gave a prophecy that the Book of Mormon had PROVEN ITSELF FALSE. (And it actually came true). He'll NEVER discuss that. That would actually be addressing the EVIDENCE, something he never does.

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"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:22 pm 
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grindael wrote:
...You have mischaracterized his argument (no surprise there) because you simply googled "rational" and found something you THOUGHT would back up what you wanted to say. IT DOESN'T. You really are a d***a**.


Sorry Lemmie but I need to jump in and respond to grindael since he is coming back to my post.

grindael, you are caught in a lie, again. I did not google the word rational. I am a runner. I listen to podcasts while running. This was a podcast I listened to while out running recently. If you listen to the whole podcast there are a number of associations that can be made between what this psychologist is saying and our own sense of reality. We can never be completely rational.

I will concede that at times you may be somewhat rational. But I do maintain that you are not able to do what is humanly impossible. :wink:

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:30 pm 
God

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Posts: 6806
grindael wrote:
...if you did destroy the arguments that people raise for their beliefs, it wouldn’t change their beliefs. They would just find other arguments.


I think this was a profound insight.

The whole podcast has golden nuggets of wisdom. After having listened to this brilliant man I am more convinced than ever that I should always keep an open mind to all that is around me. Experientially, spiritually, and in my religiosity. I hope I never fall into the trap of becoming overly dogmatic/inflexable in my positions.

I find it disheartening when I perceive that others are doing so.

BTW, do you never get tired of swearing and calling other people names?

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:29 pm 
Dragon
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Quote:
grindael, you are caught in a lie, again. I did not google the word rational. I am a runner. I listen to podcasts while running. This was a podcast I listened to while out running recently. If you listen to the whole podcast there are a number of associations that can be made between what this psychologist is saying and our own sense of reality. We can never be completely rational.


No, I'm not. The link was a podcast AND a transcript. I'm sure you did google the word rational, because you didn't know anything about what the person was claiming in the podcast. You never listed to it. A few days ago, you were claiming to BE rational, yet you claimed after you found the article/podcast that no one could be rational.

You are the liar. Now you are trying to claim that no one can be COMPLETELY rational. That is not what you initially said. You got it totally wrong. You are still wrong. You are still a liar. This is all a red herring. First, I never claimed to be COMPLETELY RATIONAL. I said I could rationally look at evidence and that you NEVER DO. All this ____ about rationality, is your invention. But that is what you do. Instead of giving a rational reply to the evidence, you take out a snippet and totally go off on a made up tangent claiming to be able to read people's minds and motives something that is TOTALLY IRRATIONAL.

This is a LIE.

Quote:
You are not being rational. It's not humanly possible.


It IS humanly possible to be rational. You are a ____ liar, a troll and only come here to disrupt honest scholarly analysis of evidence.

_________________
"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:35 pm 
Dragon
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Quote:
BTW, do you never get tired of swearing and calling other people names?


No, I don't ever get tired of exposing your lies and immoral behavior, or for that matter any other troll that wants to disrupt my threads.

_________________
"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:36 pm 
Dragon
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:15 am
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Quote:
I find it disheartening when I perceive that others are doing so.


Since you don't operate in the world of reality I find this hilarious.

_________________
"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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