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 Post subject: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon friends.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:45 pm 
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I remember the first time this young girl came up to me in my old single's ward and pointed out an African brother, who had just borne his testimony.

"There's someone you can date!"

She was all bubbly and enthusiastic like she'd solved one of my biggest life problems or something. Mormon men still look at me like I have a stripper pole hidden in my bedroom. I mean, it's big enough, and I'd love to learn pole dancing (saw a woman attach herself meditation style, halfway up the thing...I gotta learn that), but no...no.

She also used to ask to touch my "velcro-y" hair. Like, seriously?

When I was a member, during Relief Society every Sunday, there were a group of girls who didn't attend. They were all converts, and all black or Hispanic. We can't relate to Young Womens, or all the tales of happy nuclear families.

The church did more damage to me emotionally in five years, than my own family did in twenty. I no longer talk to two of my black LDS acquaintances, one left the church like me, and two still cling. One keeps trying to build bridges with people who aren't talking to their parents and grandparents about their racist views.

I love the side snark they give me. "Thank you [friend's name] for being willing to dialogue. And I'm like bish, it's out of respect for my friend, that I don't rip you a new one. You've had the opportunity to dialogue all along. Please tell me why my beautiful black LDS sisters are either not married (never to marry) or marrying in their 40s. Please tell me why my only choices for dating were some stranger from Ghana, and a man old enough to be my father, who looked at my hips and declared them "childbearing hips."

No, I will not dialogue with this. And I'm baffled by the surprise that this type of stuff is even happening. Not to mention what I go through regularly out here.

Maybe dialogue with this....this....this "mindset" would help me to understand, but it's like trying to talk with my molester, asking him why he needed to touch teenage girls. He knows it's wrong. Why hurt myself?

I fear that my friend is going to get her heart broken over the next four years. She had a problem with the racism in Asia when she lived there, but can't see it in her own church members.

I refuse. I refuse to dialogue. I'm not Token Black.

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:51 pm 
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On top of my long mirror it says, "Black is beautiful." I believe it is. When we were little, my sister and I used to brag to others that we were part black - because in our ancestry, is a woman without a last name - but we now realize she was probably Native American. We wanted to be black. I dated black guys, I hung out with friends of all races. I have mixed race kids and I can tell you that there a lot of people in the church who (mostly subconsciously) struggle with racism. It's in the Book of Mormon!

I don't know where you live, but Utah is very different racially, than many other areas, like where I grew up. Here, if you're not white, you stand out - for good or bad. Where I grew up, it was so common to see so many different races, it was no big deal - people are people - just get on with business -thing.

Utah has a lot of great things - mountains/nature, a lot of areas are family-friendly and safe. But there are also some negative tendencies here - like close mindedness. I've been offended and hurt. I have a Muslim friend who used to feel very offended by dirty looks and she'd frown or look away until she decided to smile back and just prove their dirty look wrong. I admire that, though it can be very difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:11 pm 
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I will say this: living in Utah has been very difficult (I get asked by other black people why I moved here, and NO answer is good enough). However, it woke me up with regards to what is wrong with this nation, when it comes to racism. I won't be going back to sleep.

I'm not sure what it is about my black LDS friends, but I can't stay in a faith that continues to emphasize skin color as a gauge for righteousness. I guess some things have been edited in their canon since about 2013, but I doubt people are going out in droves and buying new quads. The damage has been done, and all these tiny changes aren't doing what a full-on apology would.

One of my former black LDS friends knew what was up from the beginning. But she says she needs to stay. I say she can do as she pleases. It won't be me. Another, all she does is try to pacify her obviously racist friends. SHE knows a lot of different people, but she's one of the few token friends that many of her white Mormon friends has. I can't be that.

I do get a lot of shade and stares out here, but I throw it right back. And those heads dip, and they're a lot more respectful. I'm dealing with too much to begin with each day. Now, if you're starting out nice, you get all the sweetness I can muster. I say hello to (just about) everybody. Same thing with basic pleasantries, and wishing folks a good day. But when you want to glare at me, or you refuse to shake my hand, or you call me outside my name...that's not a good idea.

I think I'm going to just create some (permanent) distance between myself and my black LDS "friends." Because I know a lot of people who know how to reach me on the ground, and yet they do not. When it comes to the Mormons, it's because I'm not Mormon. But that doesn't stop me from being a good person. I refuse to have people hold me at arm's length like that, when I've been a good friend. I always aim to. I don't have the things that attract most people in this society (money, job title, college degree). So my integrity is what I use to wade through this muck called "Western society." I've lost count of the complete strangers who throw me shade, because I'm not in their friends group. Like, some people never made it past high school. I'm grateful for those who know who I am, and the rest...well, let's just say that I'm not going to be making any new friends....

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:02 pm 
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Sam Harris wrote:
I will say this: living in Utah has been very difficult (I get asked by other black people why I moved here, and NO answer is good enough). However, it woke me up with regards to what is wrong with this nation, when it comes to racism. I won't be going back to sleep.


I only knew one black person in the whole time I lived in Utah. This was some time ago and I left Utah in my early twenties. He was a friend and employee of my father's. He would often go with my dad and I on fishing trips. My dad taught him how to fly fish. He got pretty good at it.

I was in my teens then and I always wanted to ask him how he came to live in Utah (he wasn't a Mormon). I was too shy to ask.

I'm still curious about why black people would want to join the LDS church and why they would wish to live in Utah. It doesn't seem to be the most welcoming place for them.

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:22 pm 
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Quasimodo wrote:
Sam Harris wrote:
I will say this: living in Utah has been very difficult (I get asked by other black people why I moved here, and NO answer is good enough). However, it woke me up with regards to what is wrong with this nation, when it comes to racism. I won't be going back to sleep.


I only knew one black person in the whole time I lived in Utah. This was some time ago and I left Utah in my early twenties. He was a friend and employee of my father's. He would often go with my dad and I on fishing trips. My dad taught him how to fly fish. He got pretty good at it.

I was in my teens then and I always wanted to ask him how he came to live in Utah (he wasn't a Mormon). I was too shy to ask.

I'm still curious about why black people would want to join the LDS church and why they would wish to live in Utah. It doesn't seem to be the most welcoming place for them.


When the elders came knocking on my door, I made it clear that I couldn't abide racism in church. At the time, I didn't realize that what I was dealing with whenever I visited a new church, was a combination of colorism and tribal mentality.

Well, the elders told me there was no racism in their church. And I know they were taught about the priesthood ban. If they were from Utah or Idaho, then I know they have at least a handful of racist relatives. It comes with the territory.

Of course, my family never thought I worth being taught anything, so they just watched me go through this circus and be ridiculed.

I think that most black people who end up here either come due to work, due to adoption, or due to being stupid like me, and thinking they understood Mormonism enough to be able to thrive here. I was wrong. So very wrong. I loathe every day I spend in this place. I'm tired of the passive aggression, tired of meth heads everywhere I look, tired of the racism, and tired of the excuses I get from state and city employees, when they're asked to do their jobs. I have a live domestic violence/drug/child abuse situation going on under my feet, and only the police are listening to me so far. I had to email the ombudsman for DCFS. I told them I'll go to the news, if they don't listen. And if this landlord tries to rent that apartment out without cleaning out the meth, I will screw her so badly...I'll stick notes everywhere I can, telling the tenants to test for meth residue. My landlord owns half this city, yet "can't afford" to fix anything. Simple solution. Downsize. Jeez...

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:33 am 
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Sounds entirely like you're projecting....

I have lived all over the place in the church, including now in Utah, and racism is in the anti-mormon and leftist imagination, not reality.
And yes, you can have leftist flawed views even being Mormon, which often drives such people out of the church, because the Gospel is anathema to Leftism.

Even a black Gospel Doctrine Professor at BYUH (the son of the first black 70) can be almost perfect, but also think like a liberal, that just because someone at General Conference or whatever asked them not to sit in the front rows, that they were reserved, and then nobody shows, even he like an idiot thinks it "must have been racism", when all it could have been, is simply the planned party didn't show for whatever reason.

So, if you're looking for it, you'll find whatever you want to see. When you have leftist victim mentality, you're doing nothing but seeing the boogyman.
Wanting to touch someone's hair that is "unique" and not used to for example has ZERO to do with racism.
It has to do with human nature, people being interested and curious.
Same for dating someone of the same race..... it's simply something people generally do, so if someone see's someone that might be good for you, they mention it. Nothing to do with racism.

Leftism and anti-mormonism is a cancer..... it perverts and distorts everything

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:17 am 
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It is quite comical to see faqs trying to call-out someone for having a victim mentality...

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Xenophon wrote:
It is quite comical to see faqs trying to call-out someone for having a victim mentality...


Or projecting. Holy Jesus Chrizzles.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Being an ACTUAL victim and simply mentioning it as FACT is not a "victim mentality".

Learn definitions....

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:06 pm 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
Being an ACTUAL victim and simply mentioning it as FACT is not a "victim mentality".

Learn definitions....

Right, I forgot that only your experiences and life qualify for "ACTUAL victim" status. If someone has had a different experience, particularly one that disagrees with yours, they can't possibly be a victim...

OK then.

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Chap replied? I have had him blocked for so long that I forgot he existed. LOL

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:31 pm 
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But whatever struggles to float his boat...after living out here in this theocracy, I've seen firsthand the lengths people will go to in order to defend this mythology. I leave on Saturday, so it's whatever at this point. I'm just glad to finally be making my escape.

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:18 am 
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Sam Harris wrote:
Chap replied? I have had him blocked for so long that I forgot he existed. LOL


Sorry, is this really about me?

Obviously it is up to SH whom she blocks, but my last contact with her (a good while back) was quite friendly on my part, and she replied to it in a friendly manner. So I am a bit puzzled.

Could SH really mean 'ldsfaqs", to whom Xenophon refers above?

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:38 pm 
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In my own ward, I have seen people be extra nice when we had black members or visitors. I think the reason for this is that they know the potential for racism in the Church, and wish to avert it ahead of time. When ward members know there is support, the haters are less likely to come out of the closet and inflict damage. The same ward presented a much different story back before the racial purity policy was abandoned in 1978. People remember that and do not wish to see a return to those embarrassing displays of unrepentant racism.

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 Post subject: Re: My (struggling but in denial) "token black" Mormon frien
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Sam Harris wrote:
I leave on Saturday, so it's whatever at this point. I'm just glad to finally be making my escape.

Sami, where are you going? Grand Junction? Tahiti? Hobbiton?

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