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 Post subject: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:22 pm 
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Faith- 1) complete confidence in someone or something.
2) strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
3) The confidence which produces action towards a goal, despite the uncertainties of life and reality.
all right, I made up the last one myself. I'm looking for discussion on a faith definition which can build understanding between conflicting viewpoints. Anyone.......?


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:03 am 
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"Belief in something for which 51% or more of the evidence is against."

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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:02 am 
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I suppose we should at least mention the classic LDS scripture in Alma 32:21
Very likely Joseph Smith, himself, wrote:
And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

It's not a bad definition, but it comes off as almost a tautology. Plus, we all have known people with a ton of faith in things which are thoroughly not true. I will grant that faith can be an excellent motivator to work on some hard task, but it seems to be a very poor indicator of actual truth.


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:04 pm 
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Faith - When you have no observable support for what you want to believe.

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― Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize Winner, 'Thinking, Fast and Slow'


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:51 am 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
"Belief in something for which 51% or more of the evidence is against."


This rings a bell for me..... especially since I honestly feel there is a 1-5% chance there is a Mormon God, but belief in him makes the universe even crazier than it already is. My 51% faith leads me to explore various religions as time permits- I find the topic fascinating, and hope for Grace. God bless us, every one


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:14 am 
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Religious faith is a mechanism that allows some to survive in a world where reality is just to difficult to face.

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"Doubt is uncomfortable, certainty is ridiculous." --Voltaire


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:47 am 
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Bike275 wrote:
Religious faith is a mechanism that allows some to survive in a world where reality is just to difficult to face.


I like this also......I have FAITH that it is true. Thanks, Bike. :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:27 am 
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I have a question wrote:
Faith - When you have no observable support for what you want to believe.

I like that, (& DeconBlue's 3rd definition) especially when I think of faith in self or in others. "All have faith, but not all are conscious of having faith."


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:35 pm 
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No, no, no.

Faith is magic. It is consciousness based.

First element of faith is desire. Before you can have faith, you must want something.

Next is hope. Hope is the catalyst the connects you to the method.

Next is method. The method to obtain is how you get what you want.

Many started life wanting family and friends. They developed the faith to get it. We believed in God because we wanted family and friends forever. But, we lost hope in the method and thus lost faith.

But.....how many still want it, if they could believe again?


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:39 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
"Belief in something for which 51% or more of the evidence is against."


Image

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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:42 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
"Belief in something for which 51% or more of the evidence is against."


That's pretty close to mine: belief in something for which there is no evidence or for which the preponderance of the evidence is against.

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​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:36 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
"Belief in something for which 51% or more of the evidence is against."


Image

The thing is, knowing is just illusion.

Like, you can get your telescopes and stuff and look out there and make your guesses. But that is what it is, guesses. Some are better than others, some use mathematics, but you don't know for sure.

Like looking into a mirror, some people see a their reflection, some people see shiny glass in a frame.

There is a "spirit of knowing" that is still a mystery to me. I felt it once, but even then, I knew that I didn't know everything about the situation. Just that I felt like I knew.

My point is, just because we can see it doesn't mean that we understand it, nor infinite relations to things.

I believe and I want to believe. The minute I think I know something, is when I stop trying to learn more.


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:36 am 
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SPG wrote:
My point is, just because we can see it doesn't mean that we understand it, nor infinite relations to things.

I believe and I want to believe. The minute I think I know something, is when I stop trying to learn more.

Good points. Even things that seem superficially straight forward, can have many components not so obvious and may be a result and cause consequences that are also illusive.

I also see truth in not being too cocky about what we think we know. Yet, living paralyzed with skepticism and doubt is not really living. It's a ever-changing, persistent balance that's ideal. I liked some symbolism Robert Downey Jr. used to describe how he kept grounded but also creative... Like a plant with roots but flexible on top.


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:39 am 
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A model of how we work, is slowly forming in my head.

At our core, we are God, infinite, eternal, without boundaries, etc.

But somehow, each one of us are. The minute we want to socialize with someone, we have to agree on the reality.

But on some higher level, greater beings get together to create the "platform." In a sense, we met in their virtual world. There are rules, that we didn't particularly make, but agreed too. We might know a rule, but might not know how it affects others.

But, we came to this world because we wanted something. We are not here by happenstance. We wanted something, we hoped to get it, and now are working out the method to get in.

But, what sort of things would an eternal being want? What sort of things would an all powerful and eternal being want, that it cannot get where it's at?

My theory is, it wants things that cannot be created in truth. It wants things that might withstand truth after a time, but cannot be created in the infinite, eternal, abyss of all knowing.

But, if you went to another world, the rules might be different. How life develops could be infinitely variable.

But how we get along is "agreement." But an agreement doesn't exactly define what something actually is. Just because two or more agree that something is a dog. . . . doesn't really make it a dog. Just because we call something a planet or blackhole, doesn't actually make it those things. Maybe to me, or us, it is a planet and we might mistake that idea as a fact. Like, it is a "fact" that we live on a planet. Yet, there are whispers that we living in some sort of 2D hologram.

With illusion, anything is possible.

What might be real in the illusion is the love we have. Even when the illusion is over, we can still have that love.

So, the idea is that we can live true principles within the illusion. This is one of the reasons I defend Mormonism. Sure, its an illusion. But there are true principles within the faith that can and do bless peoples lives. We think because we can see the illusion, that everything about it is false. But, so to is everything else we see false. A nation only exists because we agree it does. One person cannot be a nation.

People question if Mormonism is true, deciding that it is not, leave. Well, that same thing is happening to America in general. Were our forefather noble men or scheming opportunists that jumped on a chance to take the colonies from England?

I don't think I heard Columbus Day mentioned once this year. I think they threw in a Jewish holiday this year in our school system. A hero of the past, now a scum.

Some say that faith is "confidence." And I agree, but again, confidence in what? I have confidence that the sun will come up tomorrow, but I also expect it too. Expecting is a form of wanting, even if what you are expecting you really don't want.

When people say, "I believe the church is false", I wonder, what did you want from it? They might reply, "what does it matter? I don't want anything from it, because it is false."

That is like standing by a river and saying, "this is not drinking water." I would say, "then you are not thirsty." Obviously, we might disagree a little, but we all know, if someone was truly thirsty, the river would somehow be drinking water."

There are those, I think, that want to believe in the church, but just can't. The requirements of "all or nothing" make it too much. But, also, what did you want from it? Can you get it some other way?


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:40 pm 
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Faith is what you fall back on when your arguments against reality don't work.

See my sig line.

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This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:52 pm 
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A different but similar way to look at it.

Reality is someone else's opinion that the majority agrees with.


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:08 pm 
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SPG wrote:
A different but similar way to look at it.

Reality is someone else's opinion that the majority agrees with.


I dunno, I think there are many realities that are not a matter of opinion. Of course, that's just my opinion. :wink:

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This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:05 pm 
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Quasimodo, :lol:

SPG,
If someone is thirsty enough, they'll drink...like in the true story, 127 Hours. Similarly, if someone is desperate enough, they will find a way to have faith. Most of us have probably had moments like that. What I want is to have the most ideal faith possible, but what is that?

A lot of people I know have faith in things I deem wrong (like Jesus as human sacrifice/scapegoat). Yet, sometimes, the way they focus on and apply their faith, it really works for them. And isn't that what matters? Since it's all illusion - all our limited subjective views can be ideal, as long as they are functional illusions that are good for us & others.

Lately, I've been praying & meditating about feeling loved and better self esteem - independent of my mom who hasn't been nice to me. I was hiking earlier and taking in all of the beauty. This wind came, making it rain leaves - sun sparkling on the water - so beautiful. I thought, you could interpret this or anything in many different ways. Einstein said "There are only two ways to live your life: as though nothing is a miracle, or as though everything is a miracle." Who's to say one interpretation is wrong, especially if it helps you psychologically and even physiologically?


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:35 pm 
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Quasimodo wrote:
SPG wrote:
A different but similar way to look at it.

Reality is someone else's opinion that the majority agrees with.


I dunno, I think there are many realities that are not a matter of opinion. Of course, that's just my opinion. :wink:


Your opinion, exactly.

Truth is infinite, thus so is reality. Whatever we are experiencing is a very limited form of reality.

Whenever uou say. "This is reality, there are hundreds and thousands of little threads that will lead to different realities.


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:57 pm 
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Good evening Amore.

I believe that there is a consistency to consciousness. I'm believe that there an exact science. In other words if someone had gone through the exact same experiences as you they would see life same way.

However, because consciousness goes so deep it would be impossible for two Souls to be exactly the same. No one in the universe sees the universe exactly like you do. Even God cannot see the universe exactly as you do. God may know how you see the universe but because he has so many other perspectives the universal does not seem the same to him. In other words you are the only one in existence that can experience your experiences the way that you do.

Even though some methods of faith can apply to a wide group of people faith is still an individual effort. Only you can find the method that is right for you. There are countless methods that are all valid in the pursuit of happiness. One is better than another only because of the individual that it applies to. There is a song lyric that asks "if you are so happy why are you so damn sad?"

There are people that are only be happy when they're miserable. I don't know if it is a permanent thing but the only way they can deal with life as if they're being punished. But if it gets them what they want who am I to judge?


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 Post subject: Re: definitions of faith
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:30 pm 
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SPG wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:
I dunno, I think there are many realities that are not a matter of opinion. Of course, that's just my opinion. :wink:


Your opinion, exactly.

Truth is infinite, thus so is reality. Whatever we are experiencing is a very limited form of reality.

Whenever uou say. "This is reality, there are hundreds and thousands of little threads that will lead to different realities.


And, of course, this is your opinion. You sound confident in it. :smile:

I agree that reality is probably infinite. I think truth can be subjective. I think we each decide what the meaning of truth is. Reality exists despite whatever we wish to believe.

I do not agree that there are multiple realities. Just the one. Knowing what is true is very difficult. I think knowing the full scope of realty is impossible for us poor, mear mortals.

Reality doesn't care what you think. I do, though. Thanks for responding!

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This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.


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