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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:38 pm 
Valiant B
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It is normal to defend your faith. It is after all the cause of most wars. But it's not just about religion, it's about belief. Trust me, many Atheists would love to wipe religious people off the planet.

Common faith is common reality. Without common reality, others are animals, heathens, infidels. The reason for jihad is this.

A mature soul does learn to accept limited common reality. Mature souls can work patiently with animals, criminals, apostates, etc. But consciousness doesn't like completing perspectives.

In our minds, we are God, we can create any idea we want. In the "agreed upon world" real estate is paid for in blood.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:38 pm 
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Amore wrote:
I agree that often people in this cultish LDS church are taught to shun or put down anybody who presents "inconvenient truths." They have bought something partly healthy and partly harmful, but they are scared to consider the negative aspects, because it would require a lot of changes they just couldn't make. Basically the church is their god - they prioritize the cult over what is really GOoD.

Still, it's not just Mormonism - it's that defending anything that doesn't REALLY make sense, makes one feel threatened and brings out the worst in them.
Same with Atheism, Abortion, Homosexual "rights" etc.
If I lay out logical arguments, with FACTS, people revert to ad hominem attacks (name-calling etc.) because they have nothing better to offer. Instead of addressing the FACTS, they try to attack the messenger.

Some people who are equally illogical fall for it and think, "Oh, yeah, that messenger is stupid."
But those who have some logical skill realize how illogical the person engaging in logical fallacy is, and they consider if the message itself is logical or not.

Good points, Amore. And if you were BIC and all this was bred into you from the moment of your birth, then I think you can just feel threatened and feel the need to put down and shun anyone who disagrees with you and not even know why, it's just deep in your gut. It can make a person deeply, deeply miserable.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:14 am 
Valiant B
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Amore wrote:
I agree that often people in this cultish LDS church are taught to shun or put down anybody who presents "inconvenient truths." They have bought something partly healthy and partly harmful, but they are scared to consider the negative aspects, because it would require a lot of changes they just couldn't make. Basically the church is their god - they prioritize the cult over what is really GOoD.

Still, it's not just Mormonism - it's that defending anything that doesn't REALLY make sense, makes one feel threatened and brings out the worst in them.
Same with Atheism, Abortion, Homosexual "rights" etc.
If I lay out logical arguments, with FACTS, people revert to ad hominem attacks (name-calling etc.) because they have nothing better to offer. Instead of addressing the FACTS, they try to attack the messenger.

Some people who are equally illogical fall for it and think, "Oh, yeah, that messenger is stupid."
But those who have some logical skill realize how illogical the person engaging in logical fallacy is, and they consider if the message itself is logical or not.


Carl Sagan once said, "We are star dust that has taken our own destiny into our hands." Forget that as star dusk, we didn't have hands.

I have seen God enough we go deeper than star dusk. Even so, star dusk is "very specific" compared to the infinite nothingness from which we came. But some star dust become stars, gold, worlds, animals, trees, and eventually, people. But each particle of star dust has a linage, of where it came from, how it became what it is now. That which is gold would not understand how wind works.

But to narrow that down to just people, look at the wide array of people we have. Again, each has a linage of how they got to where they are, how they became what they are.

Me specifically, I come from a group of people that rebelled at the God in the Garden of Eden, were driven out, driven north, where we got cold and put on clothes, and hid our nakedness from our God. Hidden from the sun, we turned white, pale, lacking color, and fought with each other, raided and killed. And eventually, we became stronger others and we dominated the world and oppressed even our own. So some of us fled the home lands to a new place. And it wasn't enough, so when some crazy dude started selling a new religion, we joined. And we moved west and craved our living out of desert and rock.

Now, all of that because we belonged to some cult or another. Cults give us form and identity. Identity is the MOST PRECIOUS thing our soul has. Who we are is the ONLY THING that gives us purpose, cause, reason, destiny, motive, etc. Like stem cells, which contain all the code necessary to be anything, they are worthless/useless until they take a form.

Cults, religions, they are why we come to this planet. Not because one is better than another, but because they give us life. Without cults, we would still be picking berries from the bushes Africa. Without hate, rejection, separation, and self-importance, we would have never left Africa. Adventure is strong, but doesn't move a whole people.

My point is, if you dig deep enough, existence doesn't make sense. Zero, makes sense. Everything else is lies and illusions.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:09 pm 
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Hi SPG,
I agree that groups - or relating with each other - is a big part of what makes life meaningful. Yet, when it comes to cults - as in mind-control and dictating members' underwear, finances, time, what they read etc.... that's not healthy. Don't you think there's a difference between feeling a sense of unity being part of a group... and losing your entire identity - and choice to "general authority" etc?

Ideally, identity is founded on illusions that are more functional than cult-mentalities. Someone once told me that he felt impressed that I was of a particular noble lineage. Logically, I think it's unlikely, but what he told me inspired me to be more noble - more good, and to see myself in a better light. It can help to get some positive sense of identity from others, but if I depended on them, I'd be screwed, because I've also been referred to in much more derogatory terms.

BTW - SPG, it's great you're on this forum. I appreciate discussing things with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:45 pm 
Valiant B
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You sort of answered your own question in this.

What is "healthy" will be eternally debatable. But just like someone telling you that you had a noble linage made you feel special, thus is the purpose of cults. If you have more than one child, you must find different ways to make them feel special, or lie them each of them while the others are no listening.

We make a child feel like they have a special gifts so they will focus on it.

Like a lucky rabbit's foot. You and I know the rabbit foot has not actual power, but if the person believes in it, then it does. Faith is the true power.

While we might consider that humans created the LDS church, there was also energy and spirit involved. The spirit of Mormons was/is uniquely resourceful and useful. Most of the early FBI and secret agents were Mormon, because they could follow orders, keep secrets, stay humble, stay focused, etc. Mormons maintain when most others would quit.

Mormons are unique in the human race, in mostly a good way. Not to say they don't have their issues, but if ____ ever hits the fan in this country, I'm heading to Utah. Mormons can rally like nobody I have every seen and are loyal to a fault. But long underwear, secret symbols, long and many meetings, are just tools to maintain the identity.

You can pick any other religion, (cult) and I could pick it to pieces. Being cynical and cruel gives me that special talent. Religions don't make sense. None of them hold up to rational questions. But, religions were nature's tool to give humans identity. A skin color, or nation, or sex, do not define someone so much as their religion. I can be politically polite to people, but the minute I hear the word "Mormon" I know I have a friend, even though I'm not Mormon, just know a lot about them.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:35 pm 
Valiant B
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Amore wrote:
Hi SPG

BTW - SPG, it's great you're on this forum. I appreciate discussing things with you.


Thanks for the welcome. I see a few old friends and haters. I hope to learn something.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:38 pm 
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SPG wrote:
Amore wrote:
Hi SPG

BTW - SPG, it's great you're on this forum. I appreciate discussing things with you.


Thanks for the welcome. I see a few old friends and haters. I hope to learn something.

Haters will hate. Liars will lie. Not that that's all there is to them, but I'm finally learning to not have unrealistic expectations of people who have shown a habit of dysfunctional behavior.

I hope the tone of this forum improves to at least being more reasonable, not immature personal attacks. I have hope it will, with people like you and other Nomies coming on board this weird ship lolipop. : :mrgreen: (That reference is from a LDS conference where a prophet leader warned everyone to stay on the "good ship" - the church). Anyway, I'm happy you're here, SPG. :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:15 am 
God
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just me wrote:

This survey is slanted to give TBM men higher scores than TBM women. As a TBM woman I got married at 18 yrs old. That precluded me from a mission and is the reason I didn't attend a Mormon school. Not to mention, teacher or counselor is the highest calling a woman can get other than the actual RS/YW/Primary president.

Harumph. I got 60 points and I am not happy about it.


Right. It's not my fault the Mormon church is a sexist organization ran by assholes. :smile:

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"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:49 pm 
God
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Ceeboo wrote:
Your Score
0 points
Your Result
You have Telestial Mormon Cred. If you bag on other Mormons or pretend like you know the full experience firsthand, then your limited cred will be revoked and you will become part of Outer Mo-cred Darkness.

:lol:


Hahaha, you're the only one I scored higher than (I think). I got a 10.

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Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:04 pm 
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But back on topic...

I've seen this too, and in my days of defense as well as my days fresh out of the church, I participated in the assholery. Who am I kidding, Maleficent is my default. Still, I've seen on posts and articles where there is an interaction between LDS and others, that more often than not, when the "outsiders" do not respond to the soft entreaties to trust in the church (or return), eventually the TBMs do indeed get hostile. Take, for example, the article from the SLTribune, about these new lessons that are coming out. The general discussion on the part of those who were not Mormon was about how this was going to be received. Three Mormons in particular, attempted to dominate the comments with pretty much nothing more than condemnation of those who didn't believe like them. And the more we weren't convinced, the angrier they got.

One woman stated that she had every right to defend her faith. But no one started out attacking it, in fact, the discussion was based upon facts about Mormon history that many within the church don't want to think about.

I had people in their 60s tell me that they never heard a general authority say anything bad about black people. Then how do they explain the issues in Brazil prior to the lifting of the priesthood ban? Those missionaries were told not to baptize anyone with one drop of black blood in them. I've even witnessed Mormons who are much older (like, my mom's generation) claim that they never heard anything about the whys behind the priesthood ban, only that it existed, and in spite of the social climate of the day, they followed it blindly.

Why? Even when I was baptized, I still wanted to know the whys behind what I was being taught. Because "cursed skins of darkness" never sat well with me.

When I responded to one telling me story about the young sister who was so glad she found a black man for me to date...there was silence. LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:20 am 
God

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Every group is able to get "angry" when born false witness about, or the perception of being lied about.
It doesn't mean anything as to good/evil, truth/falsehood.

Anti-mormons and liberals don't like getting called on their crap....
Just YouTube it, let alone here anytime I call you all on your crap.

I have my own "forum" now on this forum because you leftist snowflakes can't stand yourselves being exposed, so you all always responded with personal attacks, and then I would after a while attack back your attacks.

So spare us the "it's a Mormon thing". LOL, ____!

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 Post subject: Re: Defending Mormonism brings out the assholes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:26 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
Every group is able to get "angry" when born false witness about, or the perception of being lied about.
It doesn't mean anything as to good/evil, truth/falsehood.

Anti-mormons and liberals don't like getting called on their crap....
Just YouTube it, let alone here anytime I call you all on your crap.

I have my own "forum" now on this forum because you leftist snowflakes can't stand yourselves being exposed, so you all always responded with personal attacks, and then I would after a while attack back your attacks.

So spare us the "it's a Mormon thing". LOL, ____!


Hey Snowflake,

Wasn't that you whining about people being bullies on this board in the Prison Forum like 5 seconds ago?

viewtopic.php?p=1038606#p1038606

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