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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:58 am 
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Shulem wrote:
Jesus f*****g Christ!

Sunstoned ain't interested in hearing how sorry u people are for his loss. Who the f*** are u people to him, anyway? He doesn't need to hear about how sorry u are or how it must be so hard.

He wants to hear you say, "f*** THE Mormon CHURCH"!

Now get on with it u drippy people and start saying the right s***! This is the telestial board and if u f*****s aren't willing to abide a telestial glory then get the f*** out of this board and get your asses up in the terrestrial! We don't need u down here, so f*** off!

We don't need f*****g Tommy flowers, candy, and sappy b***s*** down here!

Jesus! f***! Christ!


The thought did occur to me that when sunstoned said " f*** god, f*** Jesus, f*** tom moson, f*** everybody.", that me might have been alluding to this discussion board. In other words, "____ all of this, my IRL is more important." Of course, I can't say for sure because he hasn't returned and I doubt that he will for a very long time, if he ever does.

In any case, he made the post on this board knowing that others would read and respond to it. The posts here are response to a horrific tragedy and you don't know any more than anyone else what he wants to hear us say.

Unless, you're a mind reader.

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:00 pm 
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hyrle wrote:
Sunstoned - I've lost a son too. The circumstances were totally different, but I understand acutely how that loss feels. It rips out a piece of your heart that never fully heals, but I promise you that time does ease the burden. You will learn to remember the good, but for now it's understandable to be angry.

So yes, ____ the church if they had any part in the pain that drove your son to use drugs. ____ them all with a spiked ____ bat.

But Shulem... ____ off. Even telestial people need someone to ____ listen.


____ the church for all its judgmental ways and for all the pain and misery it has caused. The LDS cult has ____ over a lot of lives and wooed countless people with promises that are nothing but dreamy fairy dust.

And ____ you too, hyrle.

I'm not a mind reader but I can interpret things how I like. I really don't think sunstoned wanted to hear a bunch of sappy "I'm so sorry" from board members here in the telestial forum. I don't think that was the purpose of his post. He basically was tossing a grenade at the church and telling them to go to hell.

That's pretty much it. I tossed my grenade too. The rest of you f*****s should do the same. I think that would make sunstoned feel better. Not this sappy s*** from people trying to appear all understanding and nice. That's just f*****g s*** down here in telestial.

Furthermore, don't you all think that sunstoned is smart enough to know that things get better as time passes and he processes his grief? What? Do you think that sunstoned is that stupid to not know this basic ____? You ____ don't need to be saying that ____ in his moment of anger! It talking down to someone and is not going to make him feel better.

:evil:

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:23 am 
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Wow.
Yes, the church is financially corrupt and has taught a lot of cognitive distortions.
Must we continue applying such thinking distortions - especially when it is most needed to think clearly?

I can understand people jump to conclusion and blame others and other distorted thinking when they're going through trauma and grief. But if you're not going through something like Sunstone has, there's no excuse, except your addiction to the false sense of power you feel in clinging to anger and trying to make the church response-able for every bad thing that happens to you.

I could have ended up like Sunstoned's son. Some friends I hung out with did. I was at a drug-dealer's house, paranoid with everyone else there when a knock came at the door. Their little daughter peeked out the window and screamed, "The cops are here!!" We frantically flushed the drugs down the toilet...and finally opened the door to find 2 LDS missionaries. Everyone was relieved, except me. It was a reality check. I thought, "What the hell am I doing?" Soon after that, and considering what I really wanted, I did a 180 - changed my life and have never touched drugs since.

I'm not saying the church is my savior - but in a way it was in that moment. It's also been my curse of shame - haunting, undeserved shame that is a bitch to shake. Nothing is 100% good or 100% bad. If we think it is all or nothing - that's polarized/bi-polar thinking. And the reason so much evil is in this world, inside and out of the church is because of the human tendency to blame someone else - make someone else pay, instead of empowering ourselves and taking response-ability. Don't be shunning & blaming as the church is - rise higher. Take any good from the church and let go of the bad. Let it go and move on. It's the only sane way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:30 pm 
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thank you all for your kind words. I don't know you in real life but I feel a connection with all of you. I do feel your love and concern. Today would have been my sons birthday. We had a cake and honored his memory.

My son was a good person, but make choices that in the end caused his death. We did everything we could for him, but I guess it wasn't enough.

We held a private ceremony for him. I couldn't bear to have a Mormon funeral and deal with the questions from members, and the bishop's mandatory Sunday school plan of salvation speech, and the funeral potatoes.

I am not sure why I am posting this. I know I am rambling, but since I left that church I have few friends and no family to talk to. Thank you all.


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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:31 am 
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Oh you came back!

sunstoned wrote:
thank you all for your kind words. I don't know you in real life but I feel a connection with all of you. I do feel your love and concern.


We can certainly feel a connection with each other around here. Our personalities come through in our posts. It's a community. You might not appreciate everything your neighbor does or says, but you're gonna respond when s/he's going through something rough. When someone tells us about a great loss, such as you did, our words might seem insufficient, but the underlying truth is that we want to help.

Quote:
Today would have been my sons birthday. We had a cake and honored his memory.


What a beautiful way to memorialize your son! Always do what your heart tells you to do, sunstoned.


Quote:
My son was a good person, but make choices that in the end caused his death.


Addiction is a horrible thing for a person to deal with and of course, for the people who love them. I have 2 recovering drug addicts in my extended family. They are still the good people that they were but something pulled them into addiction.

Quote:
We did everything we could for him, but I guess it wasn't enough.


We all can only ever do what we know to do, sunstoned. Sometimes we don't know what to do and people like your son don't know what to do either. Our family lives with regret. "Why didn't I notice that?" "I wish I had a chance to..." "I wish he had told me, I would have tried to help".

It's not that it's your fault for not doing enough, it's the human experience when we lose someone we love suddenly. Some things are out of our hands.

Quote:
We held a private ceremony for him. I couldn't bear to have a Mormon funeral and deal with the questions from members, and the bishop's mandatory Sunday school plan of salvation speech, and the funeral potatoes.


You chose what would bring peace to your family under the circumstances. I'm so glad you had the courage to go your own way and do what was best for your family.

Quote:
I am not sure why I am posting this. I know I am rambling, but since I left that church I have few friends and no family to talk to. Thank you all.


Well, I think you are posting this because you knew someone would read it and respond. One of the best things about a board like this is that when you need to get some feelings talked out, you can say whatever it is you need to say here and we're not going to be the people you have to face every day.

You have probably lost loved ones in death prior to this. But I just wanted to remind you that for right now, while you might find yourself naturally dwelling on your son's death, the circumstances surrounding your loss, and all of the emotions connected to that. But one day, while those thoughts and feelings will never go away entirely, some of it will fade into the background so that you can dwell on your son's life. The boy that he was and the joyful and proud parts of him. You might even find yourself doing things that you used to do with him, to feel close to him and to remember that he did live.

It takes a long while to get there. But you will.

Jersey Girl

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:45 am 
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Thank you, Jersey Girl! I have been struggling with what would be an appropriate response to sunstoned. I guess others on this board have been having the same trouble. You have said it beautifully for all of us.

Sunstoned, Jersey Girl has summed up what I would have liked to say, but couldn't find the words. Please know that you will always have friends on this board and we will always be here for anything you would like to share.

Peace,
Quasi

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:07 pm 
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sunstoned,

I wanted to say a couple more things to you in the hopes that you check back here and just in case no one in your life is saying them to you. As I said previously, our family dealt with complicated grief. That's a whole 'nuther animal than what you might call a typical grief pattern.

Do you know about the stages of grief such as denial, bargaining, anger, acceptance...those? They do not happen in a neat and tidy way. You don't necessarily move through one stage to the next, like you're ticking off the boxes. More often than not, and certainly in complicated grief, the stages tend to loop around and repeat themselves as you process over time. It's good to be mindful of that for you and your family members. What you see as a setback in recovery in yourself or a family member, is really just their individual processing, and god knows there's a lot to process when something like this takes place.

The other thing I wanted to say is in your defense. There are going to be people that say to you "It's been 6 months or it's been a year...isn't it time that you...?"

sunstoned, do not pay attention to people who tell you what time it is. Your mind and your heart, and that of your family members aren't on a schedule.

The clock belongs to you.

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Last edited by Jersey Girl on Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:08 pm 
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Quasimodo wrote:
Thank you, Jersey Girl! I have been struggling with what would be an appropriate response to sunstoned. I guess others on this board have been having the same trouble. You have said it beautifully for all of us.

Sunstoned, Jersey Girl has summed up what I would have liked to say, but couldn't find the words. Please know that you will always have friends on this board and we will always be here for anything you would like to share.

Peace,
Quasi


Oh.

You're welcome. She's not all smart ass.

:-)

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:34 pm 
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sunstoned wrote:
thank you all for your kind words. I don't know you in real life but I feel a connection with all of you. I do feel your love and concern. Today would have been my sons birthday. We had a cake and honored his memory.

My son was a good person, but make choices that in the end caused his death. We did everything we could for him, but I guess it wasn't enough.

We held a private ceremony for him. I couldn't bear to have a Mormon funeral and deal with the questions from members, and the bishop's mandatory Sunday school plan of salvation speech, and the funeral potatoes.

I am not sure why I am posting this. I know I am rambling, but since I left that church I have few friends and no family to talk to. Thank you all.

Sunstoned, we are a community, and have been for years. :smile:

My PM box is always open to you, and I know that many others here feel the same way. You are not alone, my friend. :biggrin:

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:36 am 
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Sunstoned,
I wish I could give you and your family a hug.
At least, I can share this piano piece:

Return to the Heart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2uXeq0UrWw


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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:05 pm 
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Well, I believe that LOVE is the most important attribute in the universe and through LOVE a person can be happiest.

I always feel my best when I feel love and compassion. I think love is wonderful and powerful. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 9:41 am 
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Sunstoned,

I didn't post earlier because I wasn't sure if condolences were trite. I live in Salt Lake City near downtown. If you need an ex-Mo to talk to or vent at let me take you to lunch. Anyplace you'd like. My dime.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 7:57 am 
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Sunstoned,

I have been gone from the board for about 6 weeks which I do quite regularly since I returned and scanned all the posts and found this my heart sank for you and your family. I am truly sorry for your loss. I can't say anything that can add to what has already been said. I just know for a fact that there are some very nice people that are on this board. I regard them as family. It is strange to feel so close to so many people that I have never met. I actually feel closer to many on this board than I do many of my extended family. I just will say that this family of sorts is here for you.

Tator

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 5:31 am 
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Sunstoned - I don't usually read Telestial, but ... If I could do anything to help, I would. I'm probably not anywhere near you at the moment, unfortunately.

The rest of us:

A church that is not there for somebody in this situation, and which has evidently ensured that Sunstoned's family isn't there for him either is an organization that sounds more like a scared and arrogant sect than a church.

And how long does the 'war on drugs' have to go on, and at what cost in lost and destroyed lives before political leaders gather the courage to say 'This policy was supposed to solve the drugs problem, but it is obviously doing more harm than good. Maybe we can find another way - one that will, no doubt, still do some harm, but will do more good?' But in the age of sound-bite politics, they will probably never dare.

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 9:03 pm 
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Chap wrote:
Sunstoned - I don't usually read Telestial, but ... If I could do anything to help, I would. I'm probably not anywhere near you at the moment, unfortunately.

The rest of us:

A church that is not there for somebody in this situation, and which has evidently ensured that Sunstoned's family isn't there for him either is an organization that sounds more like a scared and arrogant sect than a church.

And how long does the 'war on drugs' have to go on, and at what cost in lost and destroyed lives before political leaders gather the courage to say 'This policy was supposed to solve the drugs problem, but it is obviously doing more harm than good. Maybe we can find another way - one that will, no doubt, still do some harm, but will do more good?' But in the age of sound-bite politics, they will probably never dare.


Chap,

I'm going to assume heroin here. I think there's more going on than just the failure of the war on drugs. There are uncounted numbers of people being put on opiate derivative pain killers these days such as oxycotin and these Rx's are ultimately leading to heroin addiction due to the effects of opiates on the brain. I think that's one of the reasons why we seem to be seeing record increases in heroin usage/addiction.

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 9:05 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sunstoned,

I didn't post earlier because I wasn't sure if condolences were trite. I live in Salt Lake City near downtown. If you need an ex-Mo to talk to or vent at let me take you to lunch. Anyplace you'd like. My dime.

- Doc


Considering our very early interactions here on MormonDiscussions.com, I could have never imagined myself saying this.

You're a good soul, Cam.

And I mean that sincerely.

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 9:38 pm 
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sunstoned,

I still look for you every day I open this board and think about you and your family. This kind of grief is messy. As others have said, there are some good folks on this board, and I hope that you take someone up on their offer to call or meet up if you think it will help. I will share with you something I don't think I have shared on this board previously. When our family encountered trauma perhaps similar (though not the same--it could never be exactly the same, though likely similar in terms of sheer shock--no anticipation, no time to adjust.) as yours, I had someone from the very day after the tragedy happened, who was willing to listen to what was going on. They were willing to hear my unedited guts and the unvarnished truth of what we were experiencing as it was happening.

It was a poster from this board, sunstoned.

That person no longer posts here, but they consistently made themselves available to me via phone for months on end. I was in a situation of constant and continuous around-the-clock caretaking. I needed someone for "me" and that poster is who I had. I'll never forget how they extended their self to me and never cease to be grateful for helping me keep my own head above water.

sunstoned, I hope that there is someone like that for you and for your family members. The thought that you and your family might be in isolation and alone in your grief, burdens me. I think there are others here who fear the same for you.

I want so much to hear that you and your family members have friends who help to meet your needs for support right now, knowing that each person's needs can be different. You know, those fearless friends who aren't afraid to see or hear the mess of grief, who are willing to step in and walk alongside of you. Someone who can see or hear what you need and try their best to give it.

And I hope that no one in your family will let appearances or perceived expectations stand in the way of reaching out if you or they need help.

And again, my private messages are all yours should you feel like you want to drop in. You can say anything to me any way you need to say it. You can let it fly however it comes out. You have my word on that.

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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:28 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Chap wrote:
Sunstoned - I don't usually read Telestial, but ... If I could do anything to help, I would. I'm probably not anywhere near you at the moment, unfortunately.

The rest of us:

A church that is not there for somebody in this situation, and which has evidently ensured that Sunstoned's family isn't there for him either is an organization that sounds more like a scared and arrogant sect than a church.

And how long does the 'war on drugs' have to go on, and at what cost in lost and destroyed lives before political leaders gather the courage to say 'This policy was supposed to solve the drugs problem, but it is obviously doing more harm than good. Maybe we can find another way - one that will, no doubt, still do some harm, but will do more good?' But in the age of sound-bite politics, they will probably never dare.


Chap,

I'm going to assume heroin here. I think there's more going on than just the failure of the war on drugs. There are uncounted numbers of people being put on opiate derivative pain killers these days such as oxycotin and these Rx's are ultimately leading to heroin addiction due to the effects of opiates on the brain. I think that's one of the reasons why we seem to be seeing record increases in heroin usage/addiction.


That seems to me yet another reason to treat heroin addiction as a purely medical problem (as it was once in some countries, and not unsuccessfully), and to eliminate the need for those suffering from addiction to buy what they need from criminals.

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I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:33 pm 
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Sunstoned,

Have thought about your OP often since first seeing it. I just didn't know what to say. Still don't.

Although very late to this thread, I am truly sorry for your loss. It is hard to think of any trauma in life that even comes close to the death of one's own child.

I hope your pain is beginning to subside - or at least being diluted by numbness.

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DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 7:41 pm 
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DrW wrote:
Sunstoned,

Have thought about your OP often since first seeing it. I just didn't know what to say. Still don't.

Although very late to this thread, I am truly sorry for your loss. It is hard to think of any trauma in life that even comes close to the death of one's own child.

I hope your pain is beginning to subside - or at least being diluted by numbness.


Same.

So sorry Sunstoned.

Peace,
Ceeboo


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 Post subject: Re: my son is dead
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:54 am 
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I have a daughter with a borderline personality disorder. I don't know whether she is dead or alive or where she is from one day to the next. For me, not knowing is worse than grieving her death. I get no closure.

So sorry for your loss, Sunstoned.

The drug epidemic is nationwide, although Utah is one of the states hit hardest by opiate overdoses and addiction.

Too many are dying all over this country, and our youth at a terrifying rate. I wish I knew what the answer is to curing the epidemic.

And to save our children from this scourge.

A young woman who used to work in my office lost her mom several years ago to lung cancer. Then around two years ago, one of her sisters and her sister's boyfriend were found sitting upright in their shared Buffalo apartment with needles in their arms. They killed themselves because they didn't want to live any longer.

Two more made the statistics. And when does it end? God help us.

Condolences to you and yours. We aren't supposed to bury our children. Tears for you.


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