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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:47 pm 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
Lol! Yeah well so much for ever understanding anything that is real eh?
It's not that God is a Jerk It's that God is completely absent. With no evidence for the putative deitie's existence there simply can't be any reality to it. That's not subjective that's actual. Today no one anywhere at any time has actually shown us any evidence for anything that is Supernatural. It's all just natural. If you have evidence for something Supernatural please do share. I've got plenty of evidence for the natural and I'm happy to share that.
LOL, At least we're both getting some entertainment out of this.

"The kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you." This is what Jesus is written to have said and it's probable, IMO, he was influenced by Buddhism (similar teaching and Buddhism was preached in the area since about 400 BC). And Psych-ology is in some ways, like a Western version of Buddhism. Moreover, the essence of that is undeniable, PhiloSofee. Of course, I cannot get inside of you and point out times when you experienced God or any spiritual or intuitive sensations. But I can tell you I've experienced this many times and you cannot prove otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:02 am 
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I have no need to prove it hasn't happened. We all have emotional experiences as humans. It is the interpretations that are more interesting. it's all human psychology God has nothing to do with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:47 pm 
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PhiloSofee,
You seem stuck on stage 4 of Fowler's/(stage 3)Pecks chart... skeptical. http://www.psychologycharts.com/james-f ... faith.html You want it to be black or white - all-or nothing. If there is a god, it can't even touch Psych-ology, nor science, nor anything. You don't see how things are more connected than that.

"The kingdom of god is within you." All you experience is within you! Good news and bad news. Bad news is that if you're happy or sad, it's all in your head. Good news is that if life feels bad, you have the power to make it feel better. Carl Jung, who I agree with in this respect, saw no dividing line between psych-ology (study of the soul) and spirituality.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:19 pm 
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Amore wrote:
PhiloSofee,
You seem stuck on stage 4 of Fowler's/(stage 3)Pecks chart... skeptical. http://www.psychologycharts.com/james-f ... faith.html You want it to be black or white - all-or nothing. If there is a god, it can't even touch Psych-ology, nor science, nor anything. You don't see how things are more connected than that.

"The kingdom of god is within you." All you experience is within you! Good news and bad news. Bad news is that if you're happy or sad, it's all in your head. Good news is that if life feels bad, you have the power to make it feel better. Carl Jung, who I agree with in this respect, saw no dividing line between psych-ology (study of the soul) and spirituality.

Ah yes, pigeon hole em and pretend that gives you understanding. One of the oldest tricks in the book. Color me unconvinced. I will confess however, Jung is fascinating. That is not to say he is correct, but what great reading there is in his pages!
It is all or nothing. Either God exists, or God doesn't. Is there such a thing as a middle in there somewhere? If so based on what evidence? You keep quoting the Bible "The kingdom of God is within you." But what does that mean? Why should I accept what the Bible says? They have their own propositions, but why should I accept their views as what is real? Until you show me a reason to place the Bible on a special pedestal, I see no value in accepting what it says. I certainly don't for the Quran or the Illiad. Why should I with the Bible? There is literally no evidence at all that the kingdom of God is even real let alone in anyone. Anymore than there is evidence there is a green invisible dragon inside someone's garage. Without evidence, claims are empty.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:02 pm 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
Amore wrote:
PhiloSofee,
You seem stuck on stage 4 of Fowler's/(stage 3)Pecks chart... skeptical. http://www.psychologycharts.com/james-f ... faith.html You want it to be black or white - all-or nothing. If there is a god, it can't even touch Psych-ology, nor science, nor anything. You don't see how things are more connected than that.

"The kingdom of god is within you." All you experience is within you! Good news and bad news. Bad news is that if you're happy or sad, it's all in your head. Good news is that if life feels bad, you have the power to make it feel better. Carl Jung, who I agree with in this respect, saw no dividing line between psych-ology (study of the soul) and spirituality.

Ah yes, pigeon hole em and pretend that gives you understanding. One of the oldest tricks in the book. Color me unconvinced. I will confess however, Jung is fascinating. That is not to say he is correct, but what great reading there is in his pages!
It is all or nothing. Either God exists, or God doesn't. Is there such a thing as a middle in there somewhere? If so based on what evidence? You keep quoting the Bible "The kingdom of God is within you." But what does that mean? Why should I accept what the Bible says? They have their own propositions, but why should I accept their views as what is real? Until you show me a reason to place the Bible on a special pedestal, I see no value in accepting what it says. I certainly don't for the Quran or the Illiad. Why should I with the Bible? There is literally no evidence at all that the kingdom of God is even real let alone in anyone. Anymore than there is evidence there is a green invisible dragon inside someone's garage. Without evidence, claims are empty.

Jung is fascinating to read.

It is NOT all-or-nothing. Polarized thinking is logical fallacy - and cognitive distortion. This is especially applicable when it comes to God. There are at least as many different interpretations of what God means as there are human beings. You cannot say they all are legit, or they all are wrong. Some make sense, others don't. Let's just say that there is a god ok? Just humor me momentarily. If there is a god, where would you experience god? If there is such a thing as spiritual experiences - where would you experience them? Is anything YOU experience outside of you - in a tree, a church, a temple? Of course not! All you experience is within you. This is fact that happens to be written in the bible. I don't believe in everything the bible says, but if it makes sense as being factual or according to my experience, I don't reject it just because it's in the bible.

I may not wash every time I pray and do so 5 times every day - I don't consider myself Muslim, but if the Qur'an has something that makes sense, I accept "truth wherever it's found"... ie: "And what will explain to you what the steep path is? It is the freeing of a (slave) from bondage; or the giving of food in a day of famine to an orphan relative, or to a needy in distress. Then will he be of those who believe, enjoin fortitude and encourage kindness and compassion." Ch. 90, v 12-17

And from the Torah: "If I am not for myself who will be for me? Yet, if I am for myself only, what am I? And if not now, when?... What is wealth? Being happy with what you have."

These make sense - so do certain things that Socrates and Aristotle said - but I don't think they were perfect and I don't read everything they did as if infallible. I consider what makes sense and incorporate it into my world-view, and don't give much attention to what is less reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:04 am 
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No. It never will prevail! How do you know that what you say is the truth?

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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:24 am 
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Hi Amore,

I can too say they don't all exist. It is perfectly logical to say no gods exist that they are all made up. Here in this assertion you are mistaken. I can logically and realistically say all mythological creatures and beings do not exist.

The gods existing or not honestly is a simple black and white, yes or no proposal. Is Zeus alive and real as described in the ancient Greek texts, or not? Is there anyway to say maybe? What evidence is there that maybe a god is alive and real? I know of none. It is exactly the same with Yahweh or whichever god you wish to advocate for.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:20 pm 
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PhiloSofee,
You can say that about the flying spaghetti monster - that it doesn't exit - but when it comes to other definitions or ideas of God - (like "the kingdom of God is within you" or "God is love") - it is not black-or-white.

Black-or-white is logical fallacy thinking - it's "polarized" (bi-polar) thinking in extremes.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:27 am 
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Amore wrote:
PhiloSofee,
You can say that about the flying spaghetti monster - that it doesn't exit - but when it comes to other definitions or ideas of God - (like "the kingdom of God is within you" or "God is love") - it is not black-or-white.

Black-or-white is logical fallacy thinking - it's "polarized" (bi-polar) thinking in extremes.


That may be, but either the kingdom of god is real and really is inside you or it isn't. Can you find a middle ground for saying eh, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, and is the evidence to justify the maybe? The universe has opposites, and there appears to be nothing we can do about that. If it's polarized thinking, it's going with what is presented to us by reality. What am I missing here?

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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:50 am 
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Amore wrote:
Consciousness is energy and energy never just zaps out of existence - but changes form. So, to me the probability of there being some type of existence after life is greater than not.

The problem is with your premise. Consciousness consumes energy. At first I hoped you were just using the word energy in some new age defined way but then you referred to it changing form so I guess you really did intend to mean joules.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:34 pm 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
Amore wrote:
PhiloSofee,
You can say that about the flying spaghetti monster - that it doesn't exit - but when it comes to other definitions or ideas of God - (like "the kingdom of God is within you" or "God is love") - it is not black-or-white.

Black-or-white is logical fallacy thinking - it's "polarized" (bi-polar) thinking in extremes.


That may be, but either the kingdom of god is real and really is inside you or it isn't. Can you find a middle ground for saying eh, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, and is the evidence to justify the maybe? The universe has opposites, and there appears to be nothing we can do about that. If it's polarized thinking, it's going with what is presented to us by reality. What am I missing here?

Kingdom is "realm" or experience... so yes, the kingdom (realm/experience) is within you. Where else would it be?


Spotlight,
Energy: 1.the strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity. And metaphysics shows that consciousness has the energy (power) to affect influence. If you're going to insult me or any form of ad hominem attack, please don't respond. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the truth EVER prevail?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:58 pm 
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Amore wrote:
Spotlight,
Energy: 1.the strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity. And metaphysics shows that consciousness has the energy (power) to affect influence. If you're going to insult me or any form of ad hominem attack, please don't respond. Thanks.

You were factually wrong. The fact that consciousness has the ability to do something is separate from the need to consume energy in order to do so. A computer can be programmed to affect and influence things it might be programmed to control but it does not have that power when you pull the plug.

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In my mind science could make great leaps forward if it can just get over this nonsense about observed things. - Franktalk
I say there is no such thing as a biological creature. - Franktalk
In time the physical bodies we have will be enhanced to obtain energy directly from nature. - Franktalk


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