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 Post subject: Arctic Ice Refuses To Melt As Ordered - Leftist Lies Exposed
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:43 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwUhJaQVi-M

As can be seen, Leftists lie blatantly about Arctic Ice Melting. False Prophets exposed clear as day over and over and over again, year after year.

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 Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice Refuses To Melt As Ordered - Leftist Lies Exp
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:38 pm 
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Another denier abuse of data, debunked across the web. https://www.google.com/amp/s/tamino.wor ... a-ice/amp/

Pro tip, faqs, when you ignore the instructions that come with the data, you get a fake graph.

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 Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice Refuses To Melt As Ordered - Leftist Lies Exp
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:12 pm 
God

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LOL... I LOVE how Leftists lie while pretending to debunk the other side.

1. First it's a massive joke that the pro-side is claiming skeptics use "short term" data to make our claims. That's EXACTLY what the pro-side does.

2. Second, the MASIE chart is NOT the same data set as the one in your article. The MASIE chart actually STARTED their Recording in 2006. Further, he was using that chart because he was addressing specific ARTICLES of the dates within that period which said things were going to be end of the world. You clearly didn't watch the video and judge for yourself, but simply believe the Leftist propaganda.

3. Third, as I mention in #1 above, have you asked yourself why their chart only goes back to 1980? It's because if you chart the Arctic Sea Ice Extent for the last 100+ years, you see there has been NO LOSS OF ICE, or at least anything close to the historical record as the below link shows.

Heller has other videos which Chart this very fact. In other words, it's YOU who cherry pick short periods of earths history to push your propaganda. We are the only ones looking at the actual historical records on the science.... ALL of your claims are cherry-picked short periods or "changed/falsified" data. You actually think 1980 is a "long period"?

If you don't like videos.... Read some REAL SCIENCE which debunks your above claim.

https://notrickszone.com/2017/11/30/2-m ... LGZe7.dpbs

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 Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice Refuses To Melt As Ordered - Leftist Lies Exp
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:42 pm 
God

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Deja vu...

viewtopic.php?p=1161577#p1161577

ldsfaqs, 12/24/18, wrote:
Except your "scientists" like to LIE....

Here's the ACTUAL Arctic sea ice extent record... As you can see, it STAYS pretty even, going up and down like is NORMAL. You, Leftists, like to "cherry pick" the data to support your propaganda, and ignorant people like you just believe it because they are "the authority".

Image

Res Ipsa wrote:
Does anyone find it odd that faqs posts a graph of data from a product whose creators specifically warn should not be used to track annual trends in sea ice? https://tamino.wordpress.com/2017/02/02 ... #more-9290

I don’t. Lying about the data is what deniers do.


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 Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice Refuses To Melt As Ordered - Leftist Lies Exp
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:02 pm 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
LOL... I LOVE how Leftists lie while pretending to debunk the other side.

1. First it's a massive joke that the pro-side is claiming skeptics use "short term" data to make our claims. That's EXACTLY what the pro-side does.

2. Second, the MASIE chart is NOT the same data set as the one in your article. The MASIE chart actually STARTED their Recording in 2006. Further, he was using that chart because he was addressing specific ARTICLES of the dates within that period which said things were going to be end of the world. You clearly didn't watch the video and judge for yourself, but simply believe the Leftist propaganda.

3. Third, as I mention in #1 above, have you asked yourself why their chart only goes back to 1980? It's because if you chart the Arctic Sea Ice Extent for the last 100+ years, you see there has been NO LOSS OF ICE, or at least anything close to the historical record as the below link shows.

Heller has other videos which Chart this very fact. In other words, it's YOU who cherry pick short periods of earths history to push your propaganda. We are the only ones looking at the actual historical records on the science.... ALL of your claims are cherry-picked short periods or "changed/falsified" data. You actually think 1980 is a "long period"?

If you don't like videos.... Read some REAL SCIENCE which debunks your above claim.

https://notrickszone.com/2017/11/30/2-m ... LGZe7.dpbs

No, I didn't watch your goofball denier video. I commented on the evidence you provided. Tony Heller is a notorious propagandist who has been proven to be both wrong and dishonest so many times that you have to be either willfully ignorant or completely dishonest to cite him as a source.

The people who produce the MASIE product specifically state that it can't be used for historical comparison like Heller does. The most reliable product we have at tracking arctic ice extent over time is the data produced by the National Snow and Ice Data Center. Here's their link. https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

The NSIDC dataset covers the last 50 years. It is based on images of the arctic. (Pro-tip: there were no satellites we could use to measure ice extent 100 or 4000 years ago.)

The NSIDC website has lots of tools so you can create graphs of whatever data you are interested in. Here's one I did. The data set begins in 1979, and I'm going to use all of it. There's no cherry picking. I've picked the averages per decade (the first decade has a couple extra years because of when the data set began. You can see which average is which in the legend. I've also added the first year, 1979, which is the red line at the top, and this year, which is the incomplete purplish line at the bottom.

ImageImage

It is undeniable that the extent of arctic sea ice has declined significantly over the last 50 years. Except by Tony Heller, other dishonest deniers who actually know better, and rubes like you.

I can also show the trend as a line graph as the average for any month of the year. Here's the graph for September, during which the ice extent typically reaches a minimum.

Image

You posted 13 years of abused data. I've just posted 50 years of reliable data.

As to the paper you linked to, it's behind a paywall. The denier site that posted cherry picked snippets from it doesn't appear to understand what the paper says. Some context: although the data I've presented is as reliable as we have, there is other data. Scientists have made considerable efforts to try and reconstruct sea ice extent farther back in time using the data that we have. Here is a guest post by a researcher at the NSIDC that describe the efforts to go further back in the recent past. https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post- ... story-1850 You can read it yourself, but here's the TL/DR:

Quote:
First, there is no point in the past 150 years where sea ice extent is as small as it has been in recent years. Second, the rate of sea ice retreat in recent years is also unprecedented in the historical record. And, third, the natural fluctuations in sea ice over multiple decades are generally smaller than the year-to-year variability.

Just as climate scientists like Mike Mann have attempted to reconstruct global temperatures much further into the past, the lead author on the paper you cited, Ruediger Stein, is attempting to reconstruct sea ice extent. Both use biomarkers (with Mann, tree rings) to try and reconstruct data from the past. The paper you linked two is one of many on which Stein is an author. This particular one discusses bio markers at two locations in the arctic. (It says so in the abstract.) The purpose of these papers is to help the climate modelers improve their models by looking at how arctic ice extent has responded to temperature increases in the past. All other things being equal, we expect that, the hotter it gets, the less sea ice we will have. But we don't know the mechanics of how that will occur. We don't know the exact mechanisms (currents, wind, jet streams, etc. that will cause the ice cap to shrink. That's what the research is for. It's for something none of you deniers trust: modeling. And it uses the same techniques that Michael Mann and others used to reconstruct temperature -- which you deniers routinely decry as fraud. But when you can cherry pick a graph or snippet of language out of paper that you think refutes global warming -- you treat those same techniques as gospel truth.

Nobody claims that we have less arctic sea ice today than at any time since arctic sea ice first appeared on the earth. The scientists all understand that we are at the tail end of an interglacial period, and that, absent global warming, the earth should be cooling and headed to an ice age in 25,000 years or so. That's the context that you never want to talk about. But we're not cooling -- we're warming because we've been adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere like there's no tomorrow. So, in the context of the climate that we live in, the climate that civilization developed in, and the climate that we built cities and farms and roads and houses based on, the rapid warming we're experiencing, and will continue to experience, is going to ____ our civilization up. That's the issue -- not whether there was less ice in the past.

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― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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