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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:42 pm 
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RI I believe that you watched the 2 hour video and I believe your notes are accurate.

This here: ETA: I also think the Chaperones’ handling was very poor. They should have separated the students from the BI’s by moving them farther up the steps. The BI’s were itching for a confrontation, and a student or group could easily have been sucked into something ugly.


Made me wonder what school administrators were thinking when they approved a trip for minor aged students to DC to attend an anti-abortion rally.

Going to DC to visit the Smithsonian and other points of interest, sure. Okay.

Didn't the school (and parents) actually place the students in possible harm's way to start with by sending them to a controversial politically charged rally?

Or have I got that fact wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
From all that I've reviewed, if I'd had a son or daughter in that crowd, we'd be having a long talk about native culture. If Sandmann were my son, I'd be embarrassed that I'd raised a kid that thought treating another human the way he did was acceptable. Sandmann saw Phillips coming well before they met face to face. He knew Phillips was leading his folks toward the Memorial. All he had to do was show common courtesy, and let the old native guy with a drum through. That's all. After watching him in the tapes, I find his PR statement utterly unbelievable. The kid acted like a dick.

It’s that simple. Good recap.


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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:52 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
RI I believe that you watched the 2 hour video and I believe your notes are accurate.

This here: ETA: I also think the Chaperones’ handling was very poor. They should have separated the students from the BI’s by moving them farther up the steps. The BI’s were itching for a confrontation, and a student or group could easily have been sucked into something ugly.


Made me wonder what school administrators were thinking when they approved a trip for minor aged students to DC to attend an anti-abortion rally.

Going to DC to visit the Smithsonian and other points of interest, sure. Okay.

Didn't the school (and parents) actually place the students in possible harm's way to start with by sending them to a controversial politically charged rally?

Or have I got that fact wrong?


Boy, that’s a tough one, Jersey. I think the risk was pretty low. I might be forgetting, but I don’t recall violence at this protest in the past, and haven’t heard of any connected with this year’s march. I think there’s value in experiencing the right to peacefully protest.

So I wouldn’t fault the school for sponsoring the trip.

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Last edited by Res Ipsa on Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:54 pm 
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Markk wrote:
One give away is that the person on the left, who is not smiling, is Adrien Bonner, 3 or 4 time World Champion, and pound for pound one of the best fighters (Boxer) in the world. They don't have shirts on, and the back ground shows a person getting hit in the face...and that the smiling boxer... Eloy Perez, was knocked out by Boner and then tested positive for cocaine.

With a little home work you can find out the truth, as we did with the "MAGA" kids...

This is the video of the picture you pasted...that shows it was not a stare off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbeJxKnoK9I

Just like with the Kids, you jumped the gun without the facts.

Uh, Markk, I was pointing out that there was plenty of context in the picture to know that the two people are fighters engaged in a stare-down. I don't think it is possible to be more obviously sarcastic. I was using that simple fact to note that it is possible without special mind-reading powers to know from context if a person standing there smiling is engaged in a passive-aggressive stare-down. Honor is arguing in replies to me there there that I'm unfairly assuming the basis for his stare down is racist motivation, though I've said no such thing. I said he's being a jerk while he's surrounded by racial taunting and should, in retrospect, feel bad about it and apologize.

It doesn't matter if you intend to make a racist statement with racial taunting or not in calling it racial taunting. Mock chanting and tomahawk chops is explicit racial mocking. Maybe the Florida Secretary of State wasn't trying to be racist when he dressed in blackface as a Hurricane Katrina victim, but what he did was nonetheless racist. It's bad and people who do it should feel bad.


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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:00 pm 
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The chaperones should've been able to pick up on not responding to street preachers' taunts. So should people of high-school age, but if that fails, that's what the chaperones are supposed to be there for - to tell the teens to ignore the trolls. If they were allowing it because they thought it was fun or amusing, that was a mistake.

But, because our country has some serious problems, those kids are now hero-celebrities and at least one of them probably can craft a niche' career out of his status. So, as it turns out, the chaperones did a bang up job 'cause 'Murica.


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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:09 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
The chaperones should've been able to pick up on not responding to street preachers' taunts. So should people of high-school age, but if that fails, that's what the chaperones are supposed to be there for - to tell the teens to ignore the trolls. If they were allowing it because they thought it was fun or amusing, that was a mistake.

But, because our country has some serious problems, those kids are now hero-celebrities and at least one of them probably can craft a niche' career out of his status. So, as it turns out, the chaperones did a bang up job 'cause 'Murica.


There was definitely a lost teachable moment there. Trolls aren’t confined to the internet.

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:37 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Uh, Markk, I was pointing out that there was plenty of context in the picture to know that the two people are fighters engaged in a stare-down. I don't think it is possible to be more obviously sarcastic. I was using that simple fact to note that it is possible without special mind-reading powers to know from context if a person standing there smiling is engaged in a passive-aggressive stare-down....

huh...you wrote...

I don't know how you can say people in that picture are MMA fighters. They could just be engaging in a smile-off. There's really no way to know because apparently context clues can't help us determine what's happening with people's body language.

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:38 pm 
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Markk wrote:
EAllusion wrote:
Uh, Markk, I was pointing out that there was plenty of context in the picture to know that the two people are fighters engaged in a stare-down. I don't think it is possible to be more obviously sarcastic. I was using that simple fact to note that it is possible without special mind-reading powers to know from context if a person standing there smiling is engaged in a passive-aggressive stare-down....

huh...you wrote...

I don't know how you can say people in that picture are MMA fighters. They could just be engaging in a smile-off. There's really no way to know because apparently context clues can't help us determine what's happening with people's body language.

It is so painful when the guy who’s wrong doubles down...

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:29 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:

Says the guy who has gleefully posted about punching his wife.

It really fascinates me the immorality of some people...

1. You and others falsely accused me by stating "I likely beat my wife, which is why she's divorced from me". So I provided every single instance of ANY sort of touching of my wife as evidence that I don't "beat my wife". There was no "glee" in that you immoral slimeball. You however clearly have "glee" by continually bearing false witness of others even when corrected over and over again. Your "character" is truly one of the lowest of humanity, while virtue signaling that YOU have the "real" character.

2. As I've stated over and over again, simply gently pushing my wife away with an open semi-close fist due to her closeness to me (thus not enough time to open with an upward or side palm, if you actually knew anything about striking people) with only enough force that she simply stepped back with one foot when she was attempting to strike me, is not me "punching my wife". It's called "self-defense" with the least amount of force used possible.

And the other incident also doesn't qualify because my wife was in a severe emotional state in which her safety and that of others was imminent, when she was millisecond's from putting an SUV in gear when she had no drivers license, as well wasn't a very good driver yet in our practice, thus it would have irresponsible of me to allow someone to potentially get killed simply because of your ignorant PC, so I had no choice but to do a "quick tap" on my wife's chin to distract her so I could take the keys preventing her from putting the car into drive because it was already started.

Again, I'm an expert Martial Artist, there was no "striking" of my wife, absolutely ZERO "power" was involved, and they were extreme situations, which happen in real life compared to your fantasy land. Especially if you knew anything about people hitting other people, especially in spousal situations, they don't "tap" them and "gently push" them when "hitting" them. Man you're a royal slimeball.... truly an evil human being.

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:32 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
From all that I've reviewed, if I'd had a son or daughter in that crowd, we'd be having a long talk about native culture. If Sandmann were my son, I'd be embarrassed that I'd raised a kid that thought treating another human the way he did was acceptable. Sandmann saw Phillips coming well before they met face to face. He knew Phillips was leading his folks toward the Memorial. All he had to do was show common courtesy, and let the old native guy with a drum through. That's all. After watching him in the tapes, I find his PR statement utterly unbelievable. The kid acted like a dick.

It’s that simple. Good recap.

Actually, it's not, look at my "Timeline" video on the previous page, it's an ACTUAL "recap".

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:36 pm 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
canpakes wrote:
It’s that simple. Good recap.

Actually, it's not, look at my "Timeline" video on the previous page, it's an ACTUAL "recap".

He got it right. Your timeline changes nothing about that.


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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:41 pm 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
Again, I'm an expert Martial Artist ...

OK, so you’re a guy who punches his wife and is a bad liar. Apologies for not originally including the second part.


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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:12 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
I'm responding directly to what you yourself have stated. You called into queston the handling of military records and student records. You get comparisons right?

I suppose there is a possibility the records were hacked by the Russian Government and released to allied conservative partners as part of an ongoing operation against the United States.

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:24 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
Who does get to have power? Well off kids from private schools.


Aaaaand there it is. It always comes back to power. Post-modernism, folks! Where right and wrong are filtered through a perceived power structure. Since the teen committed a facecrime and is guilty of being potentially powerful he must be destroyed now before it's too late.

Holy ____...

This mindset is pretty ____ evil, RI.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:44 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
Honor is arguing in replies to me there there that I'm unfairly assuming the basis for his stare down is racist motivation, though I've said no such thing. I said he's being a jerk while he's surrounded by racial taunting and should, in retrospect, feel bad about it and apologize.


EAllusion wrote:
Quick question Honor:

Suppose instead of being a Native American, Nathan Phillips was black and signing a Christian hymn. And suppose instead of a MAGA hat, it was a Confederate flag hat. And suppose instead of tomahawk chops, the kids were pretending to eat fried chicken and watermelon while they mocked his signing and laughed at him. Do you understand why the teen doing a passive-aggressive stare down surrounded by his peers doing that would be a bad thing? Do you see why he might want to apologize for how that came off instead instead of claiming to be a innocent victim and selfless hero valiantly trying to defuse a tense situation in silent prayer?

Note how the separation you claim above to be meaningful only shows up when you want to explain this is what you were saying, but when one reads what you were saying it generally lumps the kids and racial motivations together such that the "passive-aggressive stare down" takes on the same motivation as the kids who were doing the tomahawk chop? Maybe it's how you think you were putting your perspective out there but it isn't how it was being presented.

You also make way too much out of saying I didn't watch the viral video and have no interest in doing so. That over the weekend as the story exploded, responses being extreme and polarized, and the articles coming out to discuss it painting an evolving picture left a pretty clear image that the video wasn't helpful but mostly at the heart of the problem seemed clear. Subsequent, longer videos from different perspectives being reported on have fleshed out the picture but I feel no need to watch 2-3 hours of video to get a better understanding when every angle that I've seen covered across the spectrum overlaps in ways that leaves one with a pretty good idea of what was going on. Res Ipsa's efforts in watching and reporting on one of the longer videos, which I appreciate, still just confirms other reports, didn't suddenly illuminate that the kids were acting out of Nazi-like racial animus but more or less behaving poorly in a very average, dumb teenage boys way that really included a mixed bag of reactions and behaviors. I've said it before and will repeat it, having grown up with very similar peer group, seeing how they acted as teens and how they've grown up and evolved in different directions as adults, I'm not on board with assigning anything more to them than bad teenage judgement. On the other hand, I assign a lot of responsibility for making this the ____ show it is to the people online behaving rather poorly, on both sides but specifically you when it comes to this board. Some people like Kevin commented on their own misjudgments and acknowledged them. With you, we're getting A Beautiful Mind moment where the history of race relations in the US, underlying motives of Trump supporters, and all sorts of other newspaper clippings swirl around together to point to the deeper hidden facts about what significance this event holds. Because it can't be treated as a radical group antagonizing people, dumb teens engaging because teens, Philips and his group reacting to what they saw as rising tensions with drumming and song while moving between the parties, the one kid in the MAGA hat not moving out of the way but acting like a teen boy who doesn't want to show he backed down at least for a moment, kids from Kentucky reacting to a Native American drumming by doing something they associate with that which most probably lack the experience or knowledge to see as insensitive, etc., etc., etc. It can't only be that. So...

Image

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:32 am 
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Quote:
and the articles coming out to discuss it painting an evolving picture left a pretty clear image that the video wasn't helpful but mostly at the heart of the problem seemed clear.


That was a bad read on what was occurring there, though. Further video evidence may have helped clear up bad assumptions people were helping themselves to, but the core complaint people initially had and that was discussed in this thread doesn't change at all with more footage. The video is not ambiguous in this regard. Interpretations are, but that reflects not the difficulty in interpreting the video, but the willingness of some people to read implausible explanations into it due to ideological biases. It is not even remotely plausible that the kids taunting Phillips were actually joining him in solidarity. The video makes that as clear as day. That people are out there saying, "Eh. It could be seen that way..." doesn't prove how ambiguous the footage is. It proves how biased people are.


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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:41 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
Who does get to have power? Well off kids from private schools.


Aaaaand there it is. It always comes back to power. Post-modernism, folks! Where right and wrong are filtered through a perceived power structure. Since the teen committed a facecrime and is guilty of being potentially powerful he must be destroyed now before it's too late.

Holy ____...

This mindset is pretty ____ evil, RI.

- Doc


Jesus, Doc. You really need to get a grip. Breathe into a paper bag or something. Then, as a calming exercise, go back through what I’ve written and try and find where I said the kid should be destroyed. Spoiler: you won’t find it. It’s totally weird to watch you push positions you make up in your head onto others. It’s also disingenuous as hell.

Go back and read what I wrote instead of twisting into something you want to attack. I didn’t offer a rationale for destroying a kid. I offered an explanation for why people would take more of an interest in one group over another. Just like I take more interest in Trump as opposed to the President of Denmark — one has much more power to affect my life than the other. How you jumped to destroying a kid’s life is, to borrow your word, looney.

Whatever “it” is, it doesn’t all come back to power. But if you flat out deny that power has anything to do with human relationships, then you’re the proverbial bumpkin that just fell off the turnip truck. And I’ve never gotten the impression that that’s who you are.

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:43 am 
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RI,

We don't have precrime units, yet.

Quote:
Who does get to have power? Well off kids from private schools. Like our newest Supreme Court Justice. They will have access to power. They have a shot at being Reps and governors and senators and presidents.


Between this and your racial purity comments I think you've done a fine job establishing your ethics. Thanks for that.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:49 am 
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Doc -

Your own posting history belies you sincerely believing the position you are taking. Why, just recently you posted about Roger Stone being arrested on an indictment, but have failed to post about the 1000's of other indictments issued today. We both know why this is the case, and it is not because you are a postmodernist who wants to see children's lives destroyed.

People aren't particularly concerned about the racial taunting of street preachers because everybody already recognizes what they are doing as bad and they are a tiny, tiny fringe group of people with no influence. It's not even enough for you to hear posters in this thread say, "Yeah, they're bad." You want a big production of it, but you don't explain why and you give every appearance of that desire coming from interpreting things in terms of in-group/out-group associations.


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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:55 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
RI,

We don't have precrime units, yet.

Quote:
Who does get to have power? Well off kids from private schools. Like our newest Supreme Court Justice. They will have access to power. They have a shot at being Reps and governors and senators and presidents.


Between this and your racial purity comments I think you've done a fine job establishing your ethics. Thanks for that.

- Doc


You’re unhinged, Doc. The only person talking about pre-crime units is you. I used to think your ____ attack mode was an act. Now I’m beginning to wonder whether all this flat out dishonesty isn’t the real you after all.

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 Post subject: Re: MAGA kids are Jerks
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:01 pm 
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EAllusion,

Discussing anything with you is an exercise in endlesss recursive semantics. It's like arguing with a third wave feminist, only far more pointless. We already have a clear picture of your deal, whether or not you actually ever stake out a personal position because you need weasel wording and philosophical gaps.

We get it. You despise the system because you don't have the power to which you feel entitled. Eeeeeeeverything comes back to power. Cool.

Meanwhile, back in the real world where real people operate, we're discussing why a teen is guilty for standing there with, as so many Leftists put it, a punchable face while an adult walked up to him and banged a drum in his face.

In every reality that ever existed, except in your power structure fantasy world where the kid is already guilty due to his perceived current privilege, inherited past racial & socioeconomic crimes, and future crimes of possibly becoming successful, an adult walking up to a kid and banging a drum in his face would merit a sort of 'wtf grow the ____ up old man' reaction from sane people.

Grow up.

- Doc

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