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 Post subject: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rules.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:07 pm 
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1. First while since the new change all of my threads but one have been at least placed on the forum, they've been placed in the "Prison" forum, even though the threads were entirely within the rules and I had posted them in the Paradise forum. No "personal" attacks, nothing against the rules were in those threads I created. Just conservative views, and general negative judgments about groups/ideology, which is no different than liberal views, anti-mormon views and liberal or anti-mormon negative judgements which IS entirely allowed on this forum.

2. Second, I've made several posts in the Paradise forum in response to threads and posts which have completely not been posted, but have also been completely within the rules.

If conservative viewpoints and judgments are not welcome on this forum, then just say so.
Stop being unjust and unfair.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:48 pm 
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You're not being censored. Everything you post shows up on the board.

Perhaps you should take some of the advice you were so ready to dish out to black folks:

Quote:
What are the five biggest issues facing blacks in America? Here’s my list.

Problem #5. The Victim Mentality

Nothing holds someone back more than seeing himself as a victim. Why? Because a victim is not responsible for his situation. Everything is someone else’s fault. And the victim sees little chance of improving his life. How can he get ahead if someone is holding him back? All this makes the victim unhappy, frustrated and angry.

This is how too many blacks see themselves – as victims. So much so that their victim status becomes their primary identity and their ruling ideology. I call it victimology. Unfortunately, many black churches preach this “victimology,” many black parents pass it on to their children, inner-city schools teach it to their students and the black media reinforce it. Meanwhile, the NAACP and other black grievance groups fundraise on it.


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43459

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:53 pm 
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Agreed. Victim mentality. Congratulations faqs for a perfect example of the "biggest issues facing black America."

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:01 pm 
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HINT: If it contains the construction "you liberals," it won't be approved in the Spirit Paradise Forum.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:28 pm 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
1. First while since the new change all of my threads but one have been at least placed on the forum, they've been placed in the "Prison" forum, even though the threads were entirely within the rules and I had posted them in the Paradise forum. No "personal" attacks, nothing against the rules were in those threads I created. Just conservative views, and general negative judgments about groups/ideology, which is no different than liberal views, anti-mormon views and liberal or anti-mormon negative judgements which IS entirely allowed on this forum.

2. Second, I've made several posts in the Paradise forum in response to threads and posts which have completely not been posted, but have also been completely within the rules.

If conservative viewpoints and judgments are not welcome on this forum, then just say so.
Stop being unjust and unfair.


You haven't presented evidence. If you think you have a case to make, present your evidence.

If this is important enough for you to pursue, isolate one issue at a time, copy the examples and link up to them from this thread.

Otherwise, you are speaking in vague generalities.

[/coaching]

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:13 pm 
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faqs,

Riddle me this. You managed to get at least 2 new threads through the queue. One was about animals, and I forget what the other was. You posted the OP's and never returned to the threads.

How come?

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:46 pm 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
1. First while since the new change all of my threads but one have been at least placed on the forum, they've been placed in the "Prison" forum, even though the threads were entirely within the rules and I had posted them in the Paradise forum. No "personal" attacks, nothing against the rules were in those threads I created. Just conservative views, and general negative judgments about groups/ideology, which is no different than liberal views, anti-mormon views and liberal or anti-mormon negative judgements which IS entirely allowed on this forum.

2. Second, I've made several posts in the Paradise forum in response to threads and posts which have completely not been posted, but have also been completely within the rules.

If conservative viewpoints and judgments are not welcome on this forum, then just say so.
Stop being unjust and unfair.

Did you read Dr. Shades' decision?
Quote:
Here's how it will work in practice: Everyone will be able to freely start threads and reply to topics within the new forum. ldsfaqs will also be free to start threads and reply to threads within it, but he'll be on the moderator queue in every other forum.



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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:56 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
HINT: If it contains the construction "you liberals," it won't be approved in the Spirit Paradise Forum.


1. That's not in the rules. Thus you're clearly sensoring me because of my political beliefs.
It would be exactly the same if some anti-mormon on this forum when talking to a group of Mormons on the forum and said "you Mormons" when describing some belief etc. Mormons have. It is a GENERAL statement of identification, not a personal attack.

So, if my saying "you liberals" is against the rules, then so should most anti-mormon and liberal posting if Mormons were actually even talked to on this forum.

2. Further, most of my posts simply say "liberals", they didn't ALL say "you liberals" that you haven't posted.

I've said before, you need to further clarify the rules, because you're being "arbitrary" according to your own made up standards, not what the rules actually say.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:03 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:
1. First while since the new change all of my threads but one have been at least placed on the forum, they've been placed in the "Prison" forum, even though the threads were entirely within the rules and I had posted them in the Paradise forum. No "personal" attacks, nothing against the rules were in those threads I created. Just conservative views, and general negative judgments about groups/ideology, which is no different than liberal views, anti-mormon views and liberal or anti-mormon negative judgements which IS entirely allowed on this forum.

2. Second, I've made several posts in the Paradise forum in response to threads and posts which have completely not been posted, but have also been completely within the rules.

If conservative viewpoints and judgments are not welcome on this forum, then just say so.
Stop being unjust and unfair.


You haven't presented evidence. If you think you have a case to make, present your evidence.

If this is important enough for you to pursue, isolate one issue at a time, copy the examples and link up to them from this thread.

Otherwise, you are speaking in vague generalities.

[/coaching]


1. I can't give "examples" (save one) because they are just not posted by whoever is moderating my posts, so they are gone, all my work into NEVERLAND.

2. I did start to record my threads, because from long experience with the Celestial Forum of my posts not being posted, even though I made sure they were entirely in the rules, but when I saw they were finally posted (but did so wrongly in the Prison Forum), I stopped recording every post/thread I write.

However, though I haven't recorded the several posts I made that he's censored, there was one thread I made, that he didn't even put in Prison (thus entirely deleted from the forum).
Here it is:

Quote:
Liberal News promote a false "assault" story....

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ole-thing/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM0ogLNN_g4

All over liberal media, it was promoted that a Trump supporter "punched a Trump protestor".
However, turns out the story is a lie. Turns out the protestor "assaulted" the man by grabbing his shoulder, and flew his arm around because he thought he was being assaulted by the liberal mob, and she fell down.

This man was blind, and in the middle of a group of fanatics, thus he rightly had fear and reacted when grabbed forcefully.


As you can see, it clearly doesn't break any forum rules in even the slightest degree, yet he or whomever clearly censored it because it made liberals look bad.
One could say my "fanatic" word is negative, but that's a general judgment of a group, an ideology, not anything at all different from anti-mormons and liberals on this forum saying Mormons are "cultists" or conservatives are racist, bigots, homophobes, crazy, and even "fanatics" (though they would more likely apply that to the Mormons).

Thus, it's clear I'm being sensored for my politics.
Not only me, but if you look at Maxine Waters recent thread, it was moved from Paradise to Prison, even though nothing in the post is against the rules.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43509

Clearly, conservative voices are being sensored on the forum.

Since the new rule changes and new forum section, I haven't even ONCE broken the rules.
I've made sure every post only made "general" statements and criticism's, not one single "personal" attack, yet some 10 of my posts have been deleted, at least.

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Last edited by ldsfaqs on Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:08 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Did you read Dr. Shades' decision?
Quote:
Here's how it will work in practice: Everyone will be able to freely start threads and reply to topics within the new forum. ldsfaqs will also be free to start threads and reply to threads within it, but he'll be on the moderator queue in every other forum.



What, you think I'm stupid?
Every time I post I'm told my posts are in mod que, so that's not the point.

The point they are in the mod que, is because Shades believes I break the rules, but clearly I don't (especially now), that I'm in fact being sensored because of my politics, not because of breaking the rules.
The purpose of the mod que is to prevent rule breaking, and encorage "rehabilitation" when one is breaking the rules so they learn not to break the rules.

As can be seen from the above post example, nothing in that break the rules, yet it was censored.
So, what part of this do YOU not understand?

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:18 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
faqs,

Riddle me this. You managed to get at least 2 new threads through the queue. One was about animals, and I forget what the other was. You posted the OP's and never returned to the threads.

How come?


I did post to them (or one anyway) and my posts were deleted, or I should say was in mod que and then went to neverland, thus was never posted.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:20 pm 
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faqs,

Wait, clarify something for me. Are you saying that:

Your posts are also on queue?

Not just your threads?

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:06 pm 
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Okay, backing up the truck here. I think I lost the ability to think for a moment there.

So...your posts and new threads in Prison, fly free. Your posts and new threads in other forums are queued.

That was the deal set forth by Shades.

When I asked for evidence, you don't have any evidence because the posts that were submitted to queue, disappeared into the vortex and you had no copies.

You've supplied an example of a post without the post title. I agree (not having seen the post title) that what I see is Paradise legal. So, I guess Shades will either address it on this thread or that's one that you can take up with him privately.

So, here is what I would do from this day forward.

Whenever you have a new thread or post ready to submit, punch a copy of it into a word document so you have a copy of it to discuss with Shades if it doesn't make it through the queue. If you don't have the ability to do that, and if you have email, use an email draft to store a copy.

I know that sounds like a lot of work, but that's the only thing I think of that will work if you want to go back to Shades and say, "Why didn't this get through?"

Meanwhile, you can still post new threads and posts at-will here in Prison. I know that's not what you want to have happen, but the restrictions were placed on you post-lengthy discussion. I would be less than honest if I didn't say that the restrictions are what I supported during those discussions and I still do.

I can't say exactly how it's going in practice, all I have is your account and you have little to no evidence, and even if you did, my comments hold little value other to let you know that someone is reading what you've written

That said, and I'm just going to put this right out there, for all the times I saw ludwigm complaining about his circumstances, I never once saw (based on his public postings) that he was willing to abide by Shades rulings or try to work through them with Shades. I do see you trying to do that, so I just wanted to acknowledge that effort.

I also don't see you, as I have seen other posters after being pissed off or whatever, come back in here wearing socks or using a proxy server to circumvent a situation and return to posting here. Speaking only for myself, I wouldn't be caught dead doing either of those things and I don't respect it when I see it.

I see you trying to hash this out in public, and while I would encourage you to discuss with Shades directly and privately, I have to say that I respect your effort so far. I don't think I agree with you on each issue, but I think it's a good thing that you're trying to discuss and not simply going off on people about it. I did see that one series of exchanges between you and Shades where it looked like you and he were in the process of negotiation and for some reason, the conversation dropped dead where it sat. I posted about it on another thread here.

Believe me when I tell you, that I know what it's like to be completely silenced and learn that others are discussing you where you cannot respond. But you are not completely silenced and you do have the ability to discuss, so that's at least something to keep in mind.

Okay, I am blathering like crazy now. Long day!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:11 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
You're not being censored. Everything you post shows up on the board.


Everything he posts goes through the queue first and then, if approved, it shows up on the board. He's saying that not everything he's submitted has made it through the queue.

Just clarifying there, RI.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:30 pm 
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One more thing, faqs. I have zero experience with either end of the queue. So when I see you posting in Paradise, as I see you doing right this second, you're submitting posts to the queue.

Then, when do they show up? Do they go back into the chronology of the thread like ludwigm said his were doing?

Or do they appear on the thread when they're released from the queue?

In other words, are they backfilling the thread or are they showing up as current posts in a thread?

You don't have to answer if you don't feel like it, I'm just asking out of curiosity.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:35 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
faqs,

Wait, clarify something for me. Are you saying that:

Your posts are also on queue?

Not just your threads?


Yes, all posts and threads in all other forums are que'd save Prison (and I'm guessing the other hell holes which I never post to because they are hell holes).
Yes, this is the "policy" Shades said he would do. I had been able to post in Terrestial, but his new banning of me even banned me from there, and i had been following the rules in that forum. I've also been following Celestial rules forever, though I rarely post there, when I have, my posts usually aren't posted, and I'm even MORE careful there, to be 100% non breaking of the rules, yet I was still sensored, and not told why, and was in the que for like the last 2 years or something, never removed, even though I've been posting there problem forever.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:43 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Okay, backing up the truck here. I think I lost the ability to think for a moment there.

So...your posts and new threads in Prison, fly free. Your posts and new threads in other forums are queued.

That was the deal set forth by Shades.

When I asked for evidence, you don't have any evidence because the posts that were submitted to queue, disappeared into the vortex and you had no copies.

You've supplied an example of a post without the post title. I agree (not having seen the post title) that what I see is Paradise legal. So, I guess Shades will either address it on this thread or that's one that you can take up with him privately.

So, here is what I would do from this day forward.

Whenever you have a new thread or post ready to submit, punch a copy of it into a word document so you have a copy of it to discuss with Shades if it doesn't make it through the queue. If you don't have the ability to do that, and if you have email, use an email draft to store a copy.

I know that sounds like a lot of work, but that's the only thing I think of that will work if you want to go back to Shades and say, "Why didn't this get through?"

Meanwhile, you can still post new threads and posts at-will here in Prison. I know that's not what you want to have happen, but the restrictions were placed on you post-lengthy discussion. I would be less than honest if I didn't say that the restrictions are what I supported during those discussions and I still do.

I can't say exactly how it's going in practice, all I have is your account and you have little to no evidence, and even if you did, my comments hold little value other to let you know that someone is reading what you've written

That said, and I'm just going to put this right out there, for all the times I saw ludwigm complaining about his circumstances, I never once saw (based on his public postings) that he was willing to abide by Shades rulings or try to work through them with Shades. I do see you trying to do that, so I just wanted to acknowledge that effort.

I also don't see you, as I have seen other posters after being pissed off or whatever, come back in here wearing socks or using a proxy server to circumvent a situation and return to posting here. Speaking only for myself, I wouldn't be caught dead doing either of those things and I don't respect it when I see it.

I see you trying to hash this out in public, and while I would encourage you to discuss with Shades directly and privately, I have to say that I respect your effort so far. I don't think I agree with you on each issue, but I think it's a good thing that you're trying to discuss and not simply going off on people about it. I did see that one series of exchanges between you and Shades where it looked like you and he were in the process of negotiation and for some reason, the conversation dropped dead where it sat. I posted about it on another thread here.

Believe me when I tell you, that I know what it's like to be completely silenced and learn that others are discussing you where you cannot respond. But you are not completely silenced and you do have the ability to discuss, so that's at least something to keep in mind.

Okay, I am blathering like crazy now. Long day!


1. I did have "one" I saved, a thread I created, and I posted it for you.
The first "sentence" in the quote is the "thread title".
Well, shades hasn't really responded to the two other times we've discussed this stuff, other than the above very short and very non-detailed explaination of his "rules" which apparently only exist in his own mind.

2. Ya, I'm saving them all now.

3. Well, I did have "one" piece of evidence. Further, I also already told you about the many thread put into Prison at the beginning which clearly didn't break the rules, he just grab almost every thread of mine for the first few pages of OT and put them in Prison, that clearly was his "standard", that is me posting was his standard. Ya, I could go through them all, but I'm bored and likely won't.

4. Thanks for the support, reasonablness, and fairness.... :)

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:48 pm 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
faqs,

Wait, clarify something for me. Are you saying that:

Your posts are also on queue?

Not just your threads?


Yes, all posts and threads in all other forums are que'd save Prison (and I'm guessing the other hell holes which I never post to because they are hell holes).
Yes, this is the "policy" Shades said he would do. I had been able to post in Terrestial, but his new banning of me even banned me from there, and i had been following the rules in that forum. I've also been following Celestial rules forever, though I rarely post there, when I have, my posts usually aren't posted, and I'm even MORE careful there, to be 100% non breaking of the rules, yet I was still sensored, and not told why, and was in the que for like the last 2 years or something, never removed, even though I've been posting there problem forever.


Yes, I got it figured out in the next post I made. I didn't know you were on queue for Celestial.

Well, I guess I stay with my current advice that I posted above, including using that one post you put here to create a dialogue with Shades about it.

I personally love hell holes, I hardly ever post in Telestial because I don't care about it at all. I'll probably post here in Prison, because it's not LDS related. One of my favorite hell holes to read is the BBQ Pit on The Straight Dope Message Board.

Here's a link if you want to see crazy hell hole:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?s=5fe33ce5ec36e32628acd826202fb217&f=5

I know, I'm warped. I admit it.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:55 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
One more thing, faqs. I have zero experience with either end of the queue. So when I see you posting in Paradise, as I see you doing right this second, you're submitting posts to the queue.

Then, when do they show up? Do they go back into the chronology of the thread like ludwigm said his were doing?

Or do they appear on the thread when they're released from the queue?

In other words, are they backfilling the thread or are they showing up as current posts in a thread?

You don't have to answer if you don't feel like it, I'm just asking out of curiosity.


Ya, they go in the chronology (i.e. when they were created)..... which they likely should, but it's a pain, because conversations aren't good then.

Frankly, I wish Shades would just create clear rules since he's clearly applying different rules to me that he doesn't apply to liberals or anti-mormons on the forum.

I mean, I mean, things are ultra clear here on me needing to follow the rules, so there was simply no need to put me in que.
There was even no need to create the forum.... Shades could have simply said, "Hey Allen, I'm now applying Terrestrial Rules to the OT Forum, so you must abide by them". Well, actually he could have made an Official thread announcement in OT, so everyone get's the rule, and I would have immediately complied, especially when I wasn't ever the one to first cause "personally" attack anyone.
So, like I said in the other thread, it's clear my being considered the "bad guy" so badly on this forum, is because of my politics, not because I was actually breaking any rules, which rules didn't even exist for the OT forum. So, I don't get the 'retroactive" enforcement. He seems to base it on Terriestrial or whatever also, but again, I had been following the rules, but again, he's clearly applying a different standard to me than others.

Tell me what the actual rules are, and I'll follow them.... There is absolutely zero need for me to be "que'd".
My threads while often negative, were always general, thus entirely within the rules.
It's only when people started personally attack, then I would snipe back. People not liking my politics and general criticisms of ideology's and those who hold it, aren't something within this forums Rules. If they are, then they need to be stated. But of course, he won't state that, cause it will ban most anti-mormons posting's.

So, clarity is needed fully.... If he wants to ban conservatives to their own forum, then just say so.
Otherwise, free me up to post, and clarify the actual rules, and not apply double standards.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:00 am 
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1973.....? Boy that's an old board.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm being censored..... because of my politics, not rule
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:21 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
4. Thanks for the support, reasonablness, and fairness.... :)


Hey, no problem. Like I said, I know what it's like to have your freedom to post taken away or in your case, put on hold not knowing what post will get through.

I remember, and I think it's been since I returned to the board, there was a good discussion going on in Terrestrial about the Book of Abraham and if I am not mistaken, I either asked if Shulem (Paul O.) couldn't be allowed to post on it (I think posts were being directed to him where he couldn't respond), or I might have actually started pitching posts down to him in Telestial or created a thread there, so he could answer them.

I might be misremembering, but I remember the situation at least. Otherwise, I think his Telestial posts are offensive as hell and yet I get why he does what he does and I'm also the poster who helped him come out to the board way back when.

So yeah, I have no problem shifting gears depending on the situation at hand. Boy is that an understatement!

Anyway, even though I was one of the voices that asked outright for these rulings, I can still relate to your end of the deal. Ultimately, I hope things go well for you and for this board as a community. I think things were getting out of hand and at least for now, there's a breather going on.

Speaking of breather, I have a long day head tomorrow so I'm getting off the board for the night and possibly the rest of the weekend. Some of my people back East are going to be calling tomorrow to talk to me. Long conversations ahead. I'm out of here.

ETA: Oh I had that bit about Shulem slightly off. Someone created a thread about him, I said it was bad form or whatever and the whole thing got jettisoned down to Telestial. At least I was close. Sort of. Maybe not. Whatever!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37902&hilit=Shulem

Quote:
Don't worry Jersey Girl. Paul is here. I can handle anything. I can rebuke my adversaries and prevail mightily in the name of any name I can come up with.


:lol:

And here's the one about Book of Abraham.

viewtopic.php?p=914802#p914802

See, I do stuff like that.

_________________
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb


Stay close to the people who feel like sunlight ~ Arsu Shaikh


Last edited by Jersey Girl on Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:47 am, edited 6 times in total.

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