It is currently Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:46 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 300 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 15  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 5:43 pm 
midnight rambler

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: St. Eligius
Darth J wrote:
In summary:

If you think OCDroopy is an asshole: you are a leftist.

If you think Will is an asshole: you are apostate.

If you demonstrate that you know what you are talking about and OCDroppy does not: you are a poseur.

If you tell Will that he is being an asshole: you are vindicating his righteousness.

If Will says objectively offensive things, or says things that would make South Park embarrassed: he's defending the Church.

If you call Will names or say offensive things to him: you are persecuting him because he is righteous.

If you are an active, believing member of the LDS Church who thinks Will is a douchebag: you're apostate.

If you are an active, believing member of the Church who interprets the scriptures in a way that conflicts with OCDroopy's AM radio platitudes: you are apostate.

Don't worry, Will. When your own apostasy from the Church's teachings and conducting yourself in a way that is offensive to someone claiming to defend Jesus' true church reach their logical destination, we will forgive and forget. Unlike the judgmental, self-righteous TBM's whose side you still pretend to be on.

"The fact that you continue to consort with the Saints is utterly irrelevant to your faith status, which marks you as one who clearly "stands apart" from them ("standing apart" being the fundamental meaning of "apostasy.")"

By these standards, I am an apostate persecuting Will because of (and thereby vindicating) his righteousness; I am also a leftist poseur.

_________________
--*--


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:31 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 7213
Nimrod wrote:
By these standards, I am an apostate persecuting Will because of (and thereby vindicating) his righteousness; I am also a leftist poseur.


Was there ever any question? ;-)

_________________
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:37 pm 
2nd Quorum of Seventy
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:41 am
Posts: 691
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Of course you're an apostate! The fact that you continue to consort with the Saints is utterly irrelevant to your faith status, which marks you as one who clearly "stands apart" from them ("standing apart" being the fundamental meaning of "apostasy.") A very large proportion of Mormon apostates continues in nominal activity, for a variety of reasons, but primarily (I am convinced) because of the facility it affords them to evangelize unfaith, which they do with patient subtilty.


You have lost all touch will reality.

Why don't you call my Bishop and see how much I "evangelize unfaith" as I serve within my ward? I dare you. No, I double dare you. In fact, I'll make it easy for you.

Stake: Manhattan, New York
Ward: Morningside Heights Ward
Bishop: John Moe

I'm sure you have access to a directory that provides his office phone number. I'm sure he'd be very interested to learn that there is a wolf among his flock. Put up or shut up, Will. Put your money where your mouth is. If you believe I represent a danger to the Church and evangelize unfaith, then you have a moral duty to alert my Priesthood leaders. Please, don't shirk your responsibilities.

My faith: Serve my community and promote the ethics, life, and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Show people that God loves them despite their faults, shortcomings, and struggles. Build people up through the messages in the Bible, Book of Mormon, D&C and PoGP. Use the teachings of the Church and the standard works as a framework for sharing this message.

Your faith: Believe exactly as I do or you are an apostate "standing apart" from the Saints. If you believe differently than I do I will belittle you, use foul language to harass you and attempt to "shame you" into believing as I do.

Dare I say that there are atheists on this board who demonstrate more Christ-like qualities than you do. You represent the worst kind of know-it-all Mormon. Again, I love my Bishop and other ward leaders and members because they are absolutely nothing like you.

You are a small, paranoid little man, Will.

Quote:
As for my allegedly "nasty exterior," it is a characterization rising from a myth created and nurtured by apostates and their sympathizers, thereby clearly indicating that the assessment is much more revealing of them than it is of me. It is not believed by anyone outside of The Great and Spacious Trailer Park©. Rather, the enmity and propaganda directed towards me by the denizens of this place is viewed, as well it should be, as my personal "badge of honor."


A myth? You have demonstrated your nastiness and paranoia right here on this thread! There is no myth. This is fact. There is no propaganda. Your online persona is one of a mean-spirited and paranoid man. I pray that this is only an online persona and that you behave more civilly in real-life. God help your ward and stake members if what we see here is who you really are.

Didn't you mention that you are on the high council in your Stake? May I suggest the next time you visit a ward that you give a talk on circle jerk crackers and the danger they represent to the Church.

Quote:
Again, the stature of a man can be very accurately assessed by the nature of his enemies, even those who insist "I am no enemy."


There goes your paranoia again. Here you have a person (me) complimenting you on your good qualities and encouraging you behave more like Christ and you consider me an enemy.

You have lost all touch with reality.

_________________
My Blog


Last edited by sethpayne on Sun May 30, 2010 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:43 pm 
midnight rambler

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: St. Eligius
Trevor wrote:
Nimrod wrote:
By these standards, I am an apostate persecuting Will because of (and thereby vindicating) his righteousness; I am also a leftist poseur.


Was there ever any question? ;-)

I hate it when you call me out for stating the obvious. ;-))

_________________
--*--


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:43 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:58 am
Posts: 1671
Location: Elsewhere
sethpayne:
Quote:
If you believe I represent a danger to the Church and evangelize unfaith, then you have a moral duty to alert my Priesthood leaders. Please, don't shirk your responsibilities.

Truth be told, I don’t believe you represent a danger to the Church. You're not sufficiently persuasive or charismatic to pose any great danger, except perhaps to your children and other family members.

Oh, to be sure, you do evangelize your particular brand of unfaith. That goes without saying. Your posting record both here and elsewhere, as I have observed it, speaks eloquently to the fact that you do not have a testimony of the divinity of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as embodied in the Church of Jesus Christ. You couch your disbelief in rather ambiguous terminology, much like your hero John Dehlin, but it’s nonetheless very transparent to all but the most obtuse observer. Indeed, in your most recent blog post (the one where you make particular mention of me) you make your stance on these issues perfectly clear.

Simply put, your peculiar way of evangelizing your brand of unfaith is readily apparent in the things you have written over the years. I’m sure it also comes out in your daily conversations with people. It can’t help but come out. You see, Seth, everyone is an evangelist for what they believe. Everyone. You’re no exception to this hard and fast rule. Your methods vary from those employed by others, and may consist of little more than the example of unfaith you set for your family and friends. But evangelize you do, and to the extent your defense of your unfaith is persuasive, then you most certainly do constitute a “fifth-columnist” element within the church.

Now, don’t get me wrong. Were I your bishop, I strongly suspect you would say similar things about me as you say about your current bishop. You might find that shocking for me to say. But I’m sure it’s true. Because I know precisely how I would approach someone like you. I would welcome you. I would attempt to encourage you to do things that might put you in a position to be moved by the spirit of faithfulness. I would express unfeigned love towards you. But I would not fool myself into believing that you were anything other than the “apostate” you are. You see, when I use the word “apostate” as a descriptor for the kind of man who “walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol,” I do so absent any sense of a nefarious connotation. I use it to mean nothing more than precisely what it does mean: one who, by choice, stands apart from the believers in the restored gospel.

That, my would-be brother, is what you do. Even when you congregate with them, you stand apart from them. That is your choice. It is the path you have chosen, and you walk it “in your own way, and after the image of your own god,” which, of course, is no god at all, but merely a variation on a very, very old theme. Its substance is that of an idol, and it is part of the world which will ultimately be destroyed.

Now, as to whether or not I am “a small, paranoid little man,” I can only say that you are entitled to your opinion. I doubt that anyone who knows me would find any resemblance between me and the characterization you employ, but no matter. You’re upset that I have spoken “hard things” to you. I can understand that. Your reaction is therefore to be expected, for, as it is written: “…the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.”

_________________
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 2:37 pm 
2nd Quorum of Seventy
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:41 am
Posts: 691
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Truth be told, I don’t believe you represent a danger to the Church. You're not sufficiently persuasive or charismatic to pose any great danger, except perhaps to your children and other family members.


Thanks Will. There is no doubt that I lack persuasiveness and charisma.

Well, if i don't present a danger to the Church, I certainly represent a danger to my ward, don't you think? Shouldn't you alert my Bishop?

Also, would you like to speak with my family members and see how my evangelism has impacted them? I'd be happy to provide contact information as I am sure they would absolutely love to speak with you.

Quote:
Oh, to be sure, you do evangelize your particular brand of unfaith. That goes without saying. Your posting record both here and elsewhere, as I have observed it, speaks eloquently to the fact that you do not have a testimony of the divinity of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as embodied in the Church of Jesus Christ. You couch your disbelief in rather ambiguous terminology, much like your hero John Dehlin, but it’s nonetheless very transparent to all but the most obtuse observer. Indeed, in your most recent blog post (the one where you make particular mention of me) you make your stance on these issues perfectly clear.


John Dehlin is a good man and I admire his Christ-like charity. I don't think its any mystery that my faith in God is different from many Church members but I do have faith in God and do my best to emulate Jesus of Nazareth. As a Pragmatist I care little for metaphysics but I recognize the power and strength of religious experience.

You are pretty much stating the obvious here.

Quote:
Simply put, your peculiar way of evangelizing your brand of unfaith is readily apparent in the things you have written over the years.


Again, stating the obvious.

Quote:
I’m sure it also comes out in your daily conversations with people. It can’t help but come out.


Yes, you are quite right. My faith does come out in daily conversation. Love God and emulate the live and love of Jesus. Pretty damaging stuff, to be sure.

Quote:
You see, Seth, everyone is an evangelist for what they believe. Everyone. You’re no exception to this hard and fast rule.


Again, you are quite right. I evangelize the love of God and the love of Jesus. Nothing more, nothing less.

Quote:
Your methods vary from those employed by others, and may consist of little more than the example of unfaith you set for your family and friends.


So when I share my belief in God with my family and friends and when I read with them from the Gospels or the Book of Mormon I am perpetuating "unfaith." Got it.

Quote:
But evangelize you do, and to the extent your defense of your unfaith is persuasive, then you most certainly do constitute a “fifth-columnist” element within the church.


So anyone who has doubts about the Church's metaphysical claims is part of a fifth-columnist element? And it is worse if I they actually voice and discuss those doubts. I'm with you.

Quote:
Were I your bishop, I strongly suspect you would say similar things about me as you say about your current bishop.


I very much doubt this. In fact, I not only doubt it, I find the very suggestion absurd.

When I read your posts it is like a candle is being blown out in a dark room. I feel dark and empty. When I see my Bishop I feel the Christ-like love he has for me. Also, my Bishop tends not to employ words such as circle-jerk or refer to struggling or former members as whores etc... He also avoids the use of racial slurs.

Quote:
You might find that shocking for me to say. But I’m sure it’s true.


It is shocking and it is also patently false.

Quote:
Because I know precisely how I would approach someone like you. I would welcome you. I would attempt to encourage you to do things that might put you in a position to be moved by the spirit of faithfulness. I would express unfeigned love towards you. But I would not fool myself into believing that you were anything other than the “apostate” you are.


So you are a man of duplicity. Here you have reservations about being insulting, offensive, sexually crude, and essentially being the antithesis of Christian charity. I don't believe for one moment that you simply flip a switch and "express unfeigned love towards [me]." You have stated here that your online persona is exactly the same as your offline persona. Again, I pray for your Stake and Ward members if the methods you employ to welcome them to the fold even remotely resemble the methods you employ here.

Quote:
You see, when I use the word “apostate” as a descriptor for the kind of man who “walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol,” I do so absent any sense of a nefarious connotation. I use it to mean nothing more than precisely what it does mean: one who, by choice, stands apart from the believers in the restored gospel.


How, exactly, do I "stand apart?" I attend services with my brothers and sisters. I pray with them. I home teach them. I am home taught by them. I share my belief in the love of God and in the power of the Church to help those who suffer.

Quote:
That, my would-be brother, is what you do.


Will, I am not your "would-be" brother. I am your brother in Christ.

Quote:
Even when you congregate with them, you stand apart from them. That is your choice. It is the path you have chosen, and you walk it “in your own way, and after the image of your own god,” which, of course, is no god at all, but merely a variation on a very, very old theme. Its substance is that of an idol, and it is part of the world which will ultimately be destroyed.


How is the view from that Rameumpton?

Again, I'm not sure how you can possibly argue that I stand apart from my fellow Mormons. I support them in their faith and they support me in mine.

Quote:
Now, as to whether or not I am “a small, paranoid little man,” I can only say that you are entitled to your opinion. I doubt that anyone who knows me would find any resemblance between me and the characterization you employ, but no matter.


Ah, but it does matter.

Again, I very much down that William Schryver has an on/off switch. You can't come online and call people whores and then attend Church and be vessel of Christ-like charity.

Quote:
You’re upset that I have spoken “hard things” to you. I can understand that. Your reaction is therefore to be expected, for, as it is written: “…the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.”


I'm not upset so much as I am saddened by the very poor representative of the LDS Church you are. How many people have come here as lurkers or doubters only to see a true believer behave in such an offensive and un-Christian way?

You could learn a thing or two from my saint of a mother.

_________________
My Blog


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 2:47 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 14216
Seth, I was so touched by your tribute to your mother. I believe our reactions towards others who differ from ourselves in some significant way is impacted by how we were raised and loved ourselves. Do we see them as an enemy, or do we see them as someone more like us than not? I think having the steadfast love and acceptance of at least one significant adult in one's childhood is crucial to being able to understand how we're more alike than not.

Eric Hoffer's theory was that people who become black and white "true believers" are, in fact, compensating for a hidden sense of a tainted self. I'm betting he's right more often than not.

_________________
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:06 pm 
2nd Quorum of Seventy
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:41 am
Posts: 691
Location: Seattle, WA
beastie wrote:
Seth, I was so touched by your tribute to your mother. I believe our reactions towards others who differ from ourselves in some significant way is impacted by how we were raised and loved ourselves. Do we see them as an enemy, or do we see them as someone more like us than not? I think having the steadfast love and acceptance of at least one significant adult in one's childhood is crucial to being able to understand how we're more alike than not.

Eric Hoffer's theory was that people who become black and white "true believers" are, in fact, compensating for a hidden sense of a tainted self. I'm betting he's right more often than not.


Thank you for the kind words, Beastie. I feel incredibly fortunate to have been raised by such a kind and caring mom. As I get older, I can see more clearly the influence she has had on the person I have become and on the person I will continue to become.

I am not familiar with Hoffer but it sounds like I need read more about his ideas.

It saddens me that we live in a world of "us vs. them." When we boil things down..... we all really care about the same things: loving others and being genuinely loved.

_________________
My Blog


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:27 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 7213
Hey sethpayne,

If there is one thing I have learned in all of my interactions with online apologists like Will, this is it: you can try to shame them into behaving better, according to your understanding, but if an apostle couldn't do it, then your chances of success are slender indeed.

Also, your tribute to your mother was wonderful. She sounds like a real pillar of her faith community.

_________________
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:44 pm 
2nd Quorum of Seventy
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:41 am
Posts: 691
Location: Seattle, WA
Trevor wrote:
Hey sethpayne,

If there is one thing I have learned in all of my interactions with online apologists like Will, this is it: you can try to shame them into behaving better, according to your understanding, but if an apostle couldn't do it, then your chances of success are slender indeed.


I'm afraid you are right, Trevor. It just bothers me to see true representatives of Christian charity -- of which there are too many to count within the Church -- get drowned out by the offensive and crude behavior of a vocal minority. I fear that others impression of our faith may be shaped by this minority. I suppose then, that I will continue to point out the virtues of Mormonism -- and occasionally offer my opinion on controversial matters -- so as to put forth a more positive view of Mormons to those within my limited sphere of influence.

Quote:
Also, your tribute to your mother was wonderful. She sounds like a real pillar of her faith community.


Thank you. She really is a pillar -- I like the way you phrased that.

_________________
My Blog


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:58 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:58 am
Posts: 1671
Location: Elsewhere
sethpayne wrote:
You could learn a thing or two from my saint of a mother.

I'm sure she wishes you had learned more from her and less from the world that has been your preferred and primary tutor.

In any case, your rhetorical gnashing of teeth is typical of those to whom I represent "the foe." It's almost as though you all read from the same script. You and your friends here are in complete accord on all the points you reference above. I am not surprised, for I know you well, as I know your friends. As I also know myself, and my friends. We are all being gathered into the camps we prefer.

I also know very well why some people are so viscerally offended by me and my words, just as you are now--and it is not to your credit that you have yielded yourself to the spirit that stirs you up to anger against me.

Nevertheless, I will not attempt further to "open your eyes," for I know you will not. At least not now. Your feet are set on the course you have chosen for yourself. Your self-delusion is willful and your rationalizations relentless. You claim to have faith in god, but it is a god of your own creation, whose substance is that of an idol. And both it and you will, absent a mighty change of heart, ultimately fall. I sincerely hope that somewhere along the way, before it is everlastingly too late, the scales of darkness will fall from your eyes, and you will cease to worship your idol god. But if not, it will not be for lack of warning.

_________________
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:04 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 7213
sethpayne wrote:
I'm afraid you are right, Trevor. It just bothers me to see true representatives of Christian charity -- of which there are too many to count within the Church -- get drowned out by the offensive and crude behavior of a vocal minority. I fear that others impression of our faith may be shaped by this minority. I suppose then, that I will continue to point out the virtues of Mormonism -- and occasionally offer my opinion on controversial matters -- so as to put forth a more positive view of Mormons to those within my limited sphere of influence.


I like your general understanding of the Gospel, which seems to center on something like this:

Quote:
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


When it gets down to it, these are some of the most important things. Most of what passes as the Gospel are appendages, as it were, to the few central tenets of the faith.

And, from what I have heard, Will too engages in this religion. He is a very dutiful hometeacher, for example. My take on this problem you raise is that we are seeing Will at his worst. It is difficult to judge. I know that much of what he posts doesn't encourage me to do better, but now and then, when he is not locking horns with critics, but sharing his knowledge of the LDS Gospel outside of his apologetic projects, he really has some interesting, and inoffensive (in the sense of not being insulting, etc.), things to say.

I take comfort in the realization that apologetics and polemics are a very tiny part of Mormonism. Most Mormons are not involved in this at all. Will too has identified himself as one passing through. Good! I would venture to say that his considerable talents would be better applied elsewhere. Not that I am dismissing his KEP work. I am actually refering to the things you are complaining about. I think it would be better for most everyone, including Will, if he absented himself from public online discussions of Mormonism.

Having said that, I offer this is in no way as a disinvitation from MormonDiscussions.com.

_________________
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:12 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 7213
William Schryver wrote:
I also know very well why some people are so viscerally offended by me and my words, just as you are now--and it is not to your credit that you have yielded yourself to the spirit that stirs you up to anger against me.


Who else talks like this? Jesus? I'm asking seriously here. Maybe I am completely wrong, but this strikes me as the rantings of a self-righteous and deluded person. I really don't get it. Maybe Elder McConkie in this stern letters to Eugene England, but, he spoke sternly from the position of apostle, and indeed stipulated that this was the grounds for his frankness.

I am not poking fun, here. I simply cannot remember, ever, any righteous LDS person whom I respected dressing down another person like this in public. And let's be clear here, we know who both of you are. What on earth gives Will the right to judge seth like this? Is he seth's bishop suddenly?

_________________
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:23 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 14216
Trevor wrote:

Who else talks like this? Jesus? I'm asking seriously here.


A vain amateur actor who always imagines himself on stage. Seriously.

_________________
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:58 pm 
2nd Quorum of Seventy
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:41 am
Posts: 691
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
I'm sure she wishes you had learned more from her and less from the world that has been your preferred and primary tutor.


My mother is actually quite proud of all her children. You see, my mothers cares more for how I live my life than for what I believe. She would rather have a son who tries to emulate the life of Jesus than one who resorts to crude and offensive language and tactics in "defense of the faith."

Again, you have lost all touch will reality and are an embarrassment to Mormonism.

Quote:
In any case, your rhetorical gnashing of teeth is typical of those to whom I represent "the foe." It's almost as though you all read from the same script. You and your friends here are in complete accord on all the points you reference above. I am not surprised, for I know you well, as I know your friends. As I also know myself, and my friends. We are all being gathered into the camps we prefer.


Yes, Will, my profession of a belief in God and a call to emulate the life of Jesus is certainly a "gnashing of teeth." Your references to circle jerks, whores, and racial slurs are *exactly* what the Gospel of Jesus Christ are all about. How could I have been so misled for so long?

Quote:
I also know very well why some people are so viscerally offended by me and my words, just as you are now--and it is not to your credit that you have yielded yourself to the spirit that stirs you up to anger against me.


I'm not offended by you, Will. I'm offended by your crudeness, your sexist remarks, your willingness to mock those with whom you disagree etc....

As I've said many many many times: You are an incredibly intelligent man who has a lot to offer the world of Mormon apologetics -- especially in regard to the Book of Abraham. Unfortunately, your crass and nasty exterior too often distract from the intellect that lies beneath.

Quote:
Nevertheless, I will not attempt further to "open your eyes," for I know you will not. At least not now. Your feet are set on the course you have chosen for yourself. Your self-delusion is willful and your rationalizations relentless. You claim to have faith in god, but it is a god of your own creation, whose substance is that of an idol. And both it and you will, absent a mighty change of heart, ultimately fall. I sincerely hope that somewhere along the way, before it is everlastingly too late, the scales of darkness will fall from your eyes, and you will cease to worship your idol god. But if not, it will not be for lack of warning.


Will, it is my hope that one day, when we get to the other side of this life, that you and I can sit down over a beer and laugh about the sheer stupidity of your comment above.

However, it is clear that we will not sway one another on this matter. You may consider me an enemy, but I consider you a friend and a brother in the Church. Granted, you are a friend that is acting like a complete douche at the moment but you are a friend and brother nonetheless.

I know that you will not find this interesting but I wrote a bit about the seeming human need for enemies here.

I am sincere when I say: God bless you.

_________________
My Blog


Last edited by sethpayne on Mon May 31, 2010 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 5:00 pm 
midnight rambler

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: St. Eligius
William Schryver wrote:
You claim to have faith in god, but it is a god of your own creation, ... .
Better a god of one's own creation than of the creation by any other man--including another man named Joseph Smith.

_________________
--*--


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 5:04 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:24 pm
Posts: 3890
Location: La Mancha
sethpayne wrote:
You may consider me an enemy, but I consider you a friend and a brother in the Church. Granted, you are a friend that is acting like a complete douche at the moment but you are a friend and brother nonetheless.

LOL. You are a good guy.

Has anybody compared the Jesus of the D&C with the Jesus of the New Testament? I can see Seth getting along with one and William getting along with the other.

_________________
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 5:06 pm 
midnight rambler

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: St. Eligius
Trevor wrote:
William Schryver wrote:
I also know very well why some people are so viscerally offended by me and my words, just as you are now--and it is not to your credit that you have yielded yourself to the spirit that stirs you up to anger against me.


Who else talks like this? Jesus? I'm asking seriously here.

Kind of sounds like that full-of-himself little brother, Nephi from the Book of Mormon. I think Will is practicing for the day he's the LDS prophet. When that happens, watch out. There will all of a sudden and after a string of spiritually deaf and mute prophets that received no revelation be a rash of revelations. And it will be the hell fire and damnation type of revelation. Might even get a dozen, hell maybe even a score, of new sections in the D&C during his reign.

_________________
--*--


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 5:08 pm 
midnight rambler

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: St. Eligius
Analytics wrote:
Has anybody compared the Jesus of the D&C with the Jesus of the New Testament?

Twin sons of different mothers.

Or perhaps, 1800 years of being resurrected makes one cranky.

_________________
--*--


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 5:32 pm 
2nd Quorum of Seventy
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:41 am
Posts: 691
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
LOL. You are a good guy.


Thanks Analytics. Sometimes I'm a complete douche too. That's why it is so easy for me to spot one. :)

Quote:
Has anybody compared the Jesus of the D&C with the Jesus of the New Testament? I can see Seth getting along with one and William getting along with the other.


Interesting question. The Jesus of the New Testament said forgive your enemies 7 x 70 times. The Jesus in the D&C says you should forgive up to 3 but on the fourth.... well, all hell breaks loose.

However, it should be noted that there are several beautiful and moving passages in the D&C. I just don't think Joseph could escape the rabid puritan New England theology of a vengeful God. It permeates all of his early work.

However, Joseph seems to have become more ecumenical during the Nauvoo period. When it was proposed that a brother be brought before the High Council for believing a false doctrine, Joseph's response was:

“Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be asked out of their church. I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammeled [sic]. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine.”

- Joseph Smith (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 288)

_________________
My Blog


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 6:50 pm 
Trevor,

I just got out of outer darkness, being banned from the board for a few days, compliments of the good Dr. Shades.

I'm beginning to think you may be worrying about loosing the bet. Are you starting to get a little concerned? You should be. Our friend William is getting close to the breaking point. It won't take much more to break him. I can feel it. I see him in my mind's eye.

William, you will be an apostate of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is your destiny. A good destiny. You'll like it, trust me.

Paul O


Top
  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 300 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 15  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 24 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group