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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:51 am 
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Vogel:
Quote:
Will, I have not chosen you as an enemy …

Nor I you.

What, pray tell, led you to conclude otherwise?

Quote:
I do not seek the demise of the LDS Church.

Well, I only claimed that you have sought to erode its foundations. Your attempt to rephrase my statement for polemical effect is noted. I stand by my own statement concerning your underlying intentions. I believe they have become abundantly clear over the years. Furthermore, I’m fairly certain that a poll of your “friends” above (Peterson, Welch, and Hamblin) might return a result not entirely consistent with your claim that “I’m no different than some of the leading apologists …,” unless you simply mean that you occupy a place opposite them in the debates over these questions.

Quote:
Why in your world view are those who have a different interpretation of Mormon origins automatically enemies?

They aren’t. There is a distinct difference between a polemical adversary and an “enemy.” Don’t you think so?

Quote:
Is it wise or healthy to make enemies of everyone who questions Book of Mormon historicity or some of Joseph Smith’s historical claims?

To dispute the conclusions of those who argue against Book of Mormon historicity or Joseph Smith’s historical claims is not equivalent to making “enemies.” You, of all people, should understand that concept.

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========================>

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:14 pm 
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harmony wrote:
Dan Vogel wrote:
Will, I have not chosen you as an enemy—that is not my intention. I do not seek the demise of the LDS Church. I only seek to impart information and to raise the level of discussion. Why in your world view are those who have a different interpretation of Mormon origins automatically enemies? Is it wise or healthy to make enemies of everyone who questions Book of Mormon historicity or some of Joseph Smith’s historical claims?


Will's a lightweight, an apologist wannabe with a vulgar vocabulary who craves attention. Why do you care what he thinks?


It's my way of pointing out Will's binary world view.

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:55 pm 
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William Schryver wrote:
Vogel:
Quote:
Will, I have not chosen you as an enemy …

Nor I you.

What, pray tell, led you to conclude otherwise?


Your apparent inability to distinguish between the intentions of various unbelievers.

Quote:
Quote:
I do not seek the demise of the LDS Church.

Well, I only claimed that you have sought to erode its foundations. Your attempt to rephrase my statement for polemical effect is noted.


That statement was not intended as an attempt to rephrase your statement. It is my own statement to distinguish myself from avowed enemies of "Mormonism."

Quote:
I stand by my own statement concerning your underlying intentions. I believe they have become abundantly clear over the years.


And there you have it. Will, the mind reader. Despite the clear statements I have made to the contrary, prescient Will knows better.

Quote:
Furthermore, I’m fairly certain that a poll of your “friends” above (Peterson, Welch, and Hamblin) might return a result not entirely consistent with your claim that “I’m no different than some of the leading apologists …,” unless you simply mean that you occupy a place opposite them in the debates over these questions.


Will, there you go again with your partial quotes and distortions. My point was: they are not always apologists, and I'm not always a critic.

Quote:
Quote:
Why in your world view are those who have a different interpretation of Mormon origins automatically enemies?

They aren’t. There is a distinct difference between a polemical adversary and an “enemy.” Don’t you think so?


It would be nice if you viewed things that way. But I don't think so. To you, I'm more than someone that simply has a different opinion than you. I'm trying to discredit Joseph Smith's prophetic claims and erode the church he founded.

Quote:
Quote:
Is it wise or healthy to make enemies of everyone who questions Book of Mormon historicity or some of Joseph Smith’s historical claims?

To dispute the conclusions of those who argue against Book of Mormon historicity or Joseph Smith’s historical claims is not equivalent to making “enemies.” You, of all people, should understand that concept.


Again, this is not an accurate portrayal of your position.

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:41 pm 
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For multiple reasons the irony meter on my computer has been stuck on full throughout this thread. :lol:

P.S. for the record: as an apologists, I am not ashamed of Will Schryver.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:03 pm 
wenglund wrote:
P.S. for the record: as an apologists, I am not ashamed of Will Schryver.


Will has some entertainment value, but that's about all. He's perhaps the sort of person I'd like to have a drink with in a pub (seriously). But apart from being an attention-whore I think, unfortunately, he's also dishonest. I now firmly believe that he created the Wheat sockpuppet. And he created it as a sort of Dorothy Dixer on Book of Abraham threads. He's also a great divider of people, who can only see in black and white, and sees evil lurking in every criticism of Mormonism, no matter how innocuous or well-intended, and his comments to Dan Vogel show just how divisive he is. Not even DCP will venture there, now, but Will is more than willing to oblige to set the Saints straight on whom they should expurgate and ostracise.

In this category Will is a three star General. Droopy a five-star General.


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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:26 am 
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As a Scratch-certified Key Apologist™ I am not embarrassed by Will either.

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"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo


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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:36 pm 
Bumping for MAD lurkers.


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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:05 pm 
Bumping with this observation. Readers should also note the violent strains behind Schryver’s rhetoric:

William Schryver wrote:
I’ve already got my calling and election made sure, so I really can’t go wrong from here on out unless I shed some innocent blood – and we both know I ain’t gonna find any of that here.


William Schryver wrote:
First of all, you try to tell my beloved 22-year-old "wenchlette" to "shut up and do as you're told." She'd kick your pansy-ass from here to Montana


William Schryver wrote:
And if I ever meet Mr. Scratch on the street, I'll knock him on his ass, pin him to the ground, and stick blades of grass up his nose until he cries.


William Schryver wrote:
Funny you should say that. I was teaching a primary class at the time that photo was taken. (The bishop in our new ward wouldn't dare turn me loose on the adults at that point.) It was a class with 7 extremely rowdy 9-year-old boys and 2 shy girls. I had a great time dealing with them. The boys were really obedient after the first Sunday when I grabbed the worst offender and pressed him against the ceiling and told him he'd better behave or he wouldn't live through the day.
(Emphasis added)

William Schryver wrote:
News to me. I’ve got a great wench … er, sweetheart. She’s one middle-aged baby boomer hottie with all the skills I could ask for – and more. In fact, she could also kick your ass from here to next week – and beyond.



You can add to Schryver’s rhetoric the word “violent” as well as vulgar.

His suspected alter-ego, “Wheat” (another apologist) wrote:

Quote:
As far as Heber C. Kimball's proposed solution to pressing social problems _ sounds good to me. Hang a few gays, prostitutes, child molesters, defrauders, and the like in the public square, and before too long you'll have produced a much more hospitable environment for making and raising families.

Start with the apostates ... (MDB, Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:37 pm)


Deborah must feel charmed by his admiration. Maybe her motto is WWWD.


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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:54 pm 
Bumping it in honor of William Schryver, my dirty mouthed friend. It takes one to know one, and I know William boy is dirty.

Paul O


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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:35 am 
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Except for the cites listed below which are NOT mine, I’ve just read through the first post on this thread and found myself laughing all over again at how funny I can be when I put my mind to it.

As I’ve said many times, I hope people DO read everything I have ever written on this message board. Not only will doing so put the lie to the propaganda campaign that has been waged against me, but it will be entertaining for them as well!

LOL!

Quote:
… a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.

(A quote from the Bible, of course. Proverbs, IIRC.)

Quote:
And now for something completely stupid....
That, and a pair of testicles, of course.

Not that this is even really “vulgar,” but I don’t believe I wrote this. In fact, I’m all but certain I didn’t.

Quote:
No, it’s just because Emma was a champion bitch and no one else would have her except Joseph.

I don’t know where this came from, and it might very well be true, but I didn’t say it.

Quote:
Omg. You're an actor with a mullet from Cedar City, UT? LOLOL. You're a f****in' douche... lolol...

Not me, either.

As for the rest of them, re-reading them this morning reminds me of why it is the campaign to label me as some kind of champion of vulgarity has never succeeded in convincing anyone outside The Great and Spacious Trailer Park©. The allegation has no basis in the facts, and no matter how you try to paint it, my words simply won’t convict me.

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:54 pm 
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Quote:
Will has some entertainment value, but that's about all.


Translation: neither I nor anyone else here stand a chance in a serious debate with him and that makes us feel very put out.

Quote:
He's perhaps the sort of person I'd like to have a drink with in a pub (seriously). But apart from being an attention-whore I think, unfortunately, he's also dishonest.


I've seen not the slightest indication of this...ever.

Quote:
He's also a great divider of people,


So was Jesus Christ. So is Droopy. So is Thomas Monson. Who here wants to be a part of The World, raise your hands.

Quote:
who can only see in black and white, and sees evil lurking in every criticism of Mormonism, no matter how innocuous or well-intended, and his comments to Dan Vogel show just how divisive he is. Not even DCP will venture there, now, but Will is more than willing to oblige to set the Saints straight on whom they should expurgate and ostracise.


Beware they who come crying "unity!" Unity, unless it is unity in righteousness in harmony with correct principles, is for lemmings.

Quote:
In this category Will is a three star General. Droopy a five-star General.


In which case that's "Sir" to you Private.

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:00 pm 
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Droopy wrote:
Unity, unless it is unity in righteousness in harmony with correct principles, is for lemmings.


Lemmings became notoriously famous because of unsubstantiated myths that they commit mass suicide when they migrate. The myth may exist in more variations. In most forms it does not appear to claim a conscious suicide but rather accidental mass death due to various factors. However in popular culture the alleged behavior is usually referred to as "mass suicide" and hence discussed here as "mass suicide myth".

Driven by strong biological urges, some species of lemmings may migrate in large groups when population density becomes too great. Lemmings can and do swim and may choose to cross a body of water in search of a new habitat. This fact and the extremely strong unexplained fluctuations in the population of Norwegian lemmings may have contributed to the development of the myth.

The myth of lemming "mass suicide" is long-standing and has been popularized by a number of factors. In 1955, Disney Studio illustrator Carl Barks drew an Uncle Scrooge adventure comic with the title "The Lemming with the Locket". This comic, which was inspired by a 1954 American Mercury article, showed massive numbers of lemmings jumping over Norwegian cliffs. Even more influential was the 1958 Disney film White Wilderness, which won an Academy Award for Documentary Feature, in which staged footage was shown with lemmings jumping into sure death after faked scenes of mass migration. A Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentary, Cruel Camera, found that the lemmings used for White Wilderness were flown from Hudson Bay to Calgary, Alberta, Canada, where they did not jump off the cliff, but in fact were launched off the cliff using a turntable.

In more recent times, the myth is well-known as the basis for the failed Apple Computer 1985 Super Bowl commercial "Lemmings" and the popular 1991 video game Lemmings, in which the player must stop the lemmings from mindlessly marching over cliffs or into traps.

Because of their association with this odd behavior, lemming suicide is a frequently used metaphor in reference to people who go along unquestioningly with popular opinion, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences. This metaphor is seen many times in popular culture, such as in the video game Lemmings, and in episodes of Red Dwarf and Adult Swim's show Robot Chicken. In Urban Terror, falling to one's death is called doing the lemming thing.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming#Mass-Suicide_Myth

EDIT: Those who have been studying militant cafeteria Mormonism may remember our previous discussion of using pop culture tropes under the pretense of literacy.

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Last edited by Darth J on Wed May 26, 2010 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:09 pm 
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William Schryver wrote:
Let me clarify: now that you've formally joined the rodents here in The Great and Spacious Trailer Park™ you are officially a lost soul. You will burn in hell. There is no hope. Your best option at this point is to eat, drink, and be merry. For tomorrow (as it were) you will be cast into the bottomless pit, with a millstone for a pendant, and A Il Maledetto as your eternal companion.



Post Reference:

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Quote:
Translation: neither I nor anyone else here stand a chance in a serious debate with him and that makes us feel very put out.


Name a single debate Will has won.

Better yet, name a single debate Will has ever finished.

Or name a debate Will has ever impressed you.

And while you're at it, try naming a single debate Will has ever been willing to have over on this forum.

Will doesn't debate. Will can't debate. WIll obfuscates and tries to impress people with rhetoric. He usually does this over at his lecture chair at MADB.

Here is the part where Dafty doesn't answer the questions. Guaranteed.

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:10 am 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Quote:
Translation: neither I nor anyone else here stand a chance in a serious debate with him and that makes us feel very put out.


Name a single debate Will has won.

Better yet, name a single debate Will has ever finished.

Or name a debate Will has ever impressed you.

And while you're at it, try naming a single debate Will has ever been willing to have over on this forum.

Will doesn't debate. Will can't debate. WIll obfuscates and tries to impress people with rhetoric. He usually does this over at his lecture chair at MADB.

Here is the part where Dafty doesn't answer the questions. Guaranteed.

Here are just two examples:

"Haran" Dittograph in Ab2

Interlinear Insertion at Abr. 1:12

Although Kevin Graham is very fond of (and very frequently persuaded by) the counter-argument of "you're just an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about," most people are much more intellectually rigorous in their approach to such things.

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:02 pm 
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I need to correct a very egregious typo in one of my posts above. I said:

Quote:
neither I nor anyone else here stand a chance in a serious debate with him and that makes us feel very put out.


What I meant was "Neither you nor anyone else here stand a chance in a serious debate with him and that makes us feel very put out."

I have no idea how I would fare in a debate with him on the BofA. This is, of course, rather moot, as I have no intention of ever debating him on this subject. It is also true that I do not have the detailed knowledge of many of the textual and forensic issues over which Metcalf, Smith, Graham et al roast themselves to such juicy perfection, but this, again, is moot, given my testimony of that document.

I just wanted to make this clear so that no one here thinks that I consider myself to be in the same intellectual class as the denizens of the Traierpark, whether they be single wide, double wide, or triple wide denizens.

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- Thomas Sowell


Last edited by Droopy on Thu May 27, 2010 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:05 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Quote:
Translation: neither I nor anyone else here stand a chance in a serious debate with him and that makes us feel very put out.


Name a single debate Will has won.

Better yet, name a single debate Will has ever finished.

Or name a debate Will has ever impressed you.

And while you're at it, try naming a single debate Will has ever been willing to have over on this forum.

Will doesn't debate. Will can't debate. WIll obfuscates and tries to impress people with rhetoric. He usually does this over at his lecture chair at MADB.

Here is the part where Dafty doesn't answer the questions. Guaranteed.



Name a single instance in which you have ever engaged in a civil, respectful, intellectually substantive critical debate with anyone, on any subject.

Name one debate you have ever had here that is primarily intellectual and philosophical in nature, and not primarily polemical.

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Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell


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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:07 pm 
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Darth J wrote:
Droopy wrote:
Unity, unless it is unity in righteousness in harmony with correct principles, is for lemmings.


Lemmings became notoriously famous because of unsubstantiated myths that they commit mass suicide when they migrate. The myth may exist in more variations. In most forms it does not appear to claim a conscious suicide but rather accidental mass death due to various factors. However in popular culture the alleged behavior is usually referred to as "mass suicide" and hence discussed here as "mass suicide myth".

Driven by strong biological urges, some species of lemmings may migrate in large groups when population density becomes too great. Lemmings can and do swim and may choose to cross a body of water in search of a new habitat. This fact and the extremely strong unexplained fluctuations in the population of Norwegian lemmings may have contributed to the development of the myth.

The myth of lemming "mass suicide" is long-standing and has been popularized by a number of factors. In 1955, Disney Studio illustrator Carl Barks drew an Uncle Scrooge adventure comic with the title "The Lemming with the Locket". This comic, which was inspired by a 1954 American Mercury article, showed massive numbers of lemmings jumping over Norwegian cliffs. Even more influential was the 1958 Disney film White Wilderness, which won an Academy Award for Documentary Feature, in which staged footage was shown with lemmings jumping into sure death after faked scenes of mass migration. A Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentary, Cruel Camera, found that the lemmings used for White Wilderness were flown from Hudson Bay to Calgary, Alberta, Canada, where they did not jump off the cliff, but in fact were launched off the cliff using a turntable.

In more recent times, the myth is well-known as the basis for the failed Apple Computer 1985 Super Bowl commercial "Lemmings" and the popular 1991 video game Lemmings, in which the player must stop the lemmings from mindlessly marching over cliffs or into traps.

Because of their association with this odd behavior, lemming suicide is a frequently used metaphor in reference to people who go along unquestioningly with popular opinion, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences. This metaphor is seen many times in popular culture, such as in the video game Lemmings, and in episodes of Red Dwarf and Adult Swim's show Robot Chicken. In Urban Terror, falling to one's death is called doing the lemming thing.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming#Mass-Suicide_Myth

EDIT: Those who have been studying militant cafeteria Mormonism may remember our previous discussion of using pop culture tropes under the pretense of literacy.



I'm sorry, I meant to say "Unity, unless it is unity in righteousness in harmony with correct principles, is for liberals.", not lemmings.

The problem is that the these are very closely related sub-species with very little differentiation in habits and instincts.

Whether more myth than reality or not, its the motif that counts here...at least for liberals.

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- Thomas Sowell


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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:21 pm 
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William Schryver wrote:

Based on your reply to Mortal Man over on MAD, I have to say that your argument regarding this insertion achieves new heights when it comes to throwing Joseph Smith under the bus. Your arguments sounds like it will proceed along these lines: Joseph Smith incorrectly assumed that the facsimile had something to do with the Book of Abraham and thus added the interlinear insertion to the Book of Abraham.

I love it! Not only are you tossing Joseph Smith's "mere opinion," you're tossing his cannonized opinion!


Last edited by dblagent007 on Thu May 27, 2010 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:34 pm 
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Quote:
Name a single instance in which you have ever engaged in a civil, respectful, intellectually substantive critical debate with anyone, on any subject.

Too many to count, but the one in celestial forum between Bokovoy and I should suffice in making the point. He left the debate saying I left him with plenty to think about. Anyway, I knew you wouldn't respond to the questions because the fact is you have no evidence of Will being a master debater. Every once in a blue moon he'll throw something out to keep us occupied, and he'll receive numerous refutations. But he never sticks around to defend his thesis until the end. He'll gladly leave in light of conflicting data that he doesn't know how to account for. This is how I generally run him off, and it works every time.
Quote:
Here are just two examples:

Just two examples? They are the only examples, and these are discussions you began by launching into a lecture over at MADB pundits forum. In the first example you tried to debate Brent, but he was too busy debating the maatter with Hauglid in private emails and didn't give you the time of day. So Dan Vogel and Chris Smith made quick mincemeat of your baseless assertion and I provided a response over here, which of course you were careful to avoid. It is also worth noting that you began this thread shortly after the embarrassing FAIR presentation of 2006. This was just weeks after I was banned, and your knowledge level on the matter was pathetically low.

And while you started the "debate" in Sept 2006, your last post was at the end of September whereas Chris and Vogel continued to pummel you throughout Feb of 2007. You never responded to them after September, so that pretty much supports what I said. You don't stick around long once you are refuted. You don't have the intellectual stamina.

In your second example, you started a thread on both boards, which is a first I think(viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3836&st=0&sk=t&sd=a). The funniest thing about it is while I was responding to it over here, you were picking things I had said and citing them over there as something "a critic" just said. And even though you participated in the refutation I provided here, you started dodging me halfway through the discussion and instead picked things you thought you could score points on over at MADB, and used them over there to do so. I presented a half dozen solid arguments for you to address and you never did. Like I said, you don't finish debates. The thread died at the end of November and picked up again in May 2008, which is when it got heated between us. Why? Because you ran back to MADB and lost the courage to come back and face your critics. I started the thread back up responding to things you were saying at MADB, and noted how you were citing me over there as "a critic."

You returned, jumped in and started responding to people like Shade, Trevor s and chap, but you didn't have the balls to address the points I made. Instead, you came here and said, "ignore Graham (who is painfully aware of how irrelevant he has become when it comes to Book of Abraham conversations" and then you posted a giant photo of rednecks in a trailer park. So irrelevant that you're still using things I say to shape your arguments at MADB? You're such an idiot because you cite me and then say I'm irrelevant in the next breath. You can't have it both ways, but my relevancy is not the issue. Just deal with the rebuttal and stop pretending to be a brave apologist.

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 Post subject: Re: William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:53 pm 
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Location: A castellated abbey
Droopy wrote:

I'm sorry, I meant to say "Unity, unless it is unity in righteousness in harmony with correct principles, is for liberals.", not lemmings.

The problem is that the these are very closely related sub-species with very little differentiation in habits and instincts.

Whether more myth than reality or not, its the motif that counts here...at least for liberals.


OCDroopy, in your vastly superior intellect and erudition that so greatly surpasses that of everyone else here, did you by chance ever stumble across anything that explained the difference between a motif and a metaphor?

_________________
And the life of the ebony clock went out with that of the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired. And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.


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