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 Post subject: Missionary Charged, Church being Sued in KY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:01 am 
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http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/ne ... 577219.htm

Interesting story out of Lexington. Not only is the missionary named for criminal charges (two counts sodomy, one count attempted sodomy) but the Church is being sued too.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:49 am 
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From the article:

Quote:
"I don't think freedom of religion gives you the right to sexually abuse a minor," Stidham said.


Not unless your name is Joseph Smith.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:51 am 
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Yay for theocratic ethics!

"I can do whatever god tells me to do. If god says its cool, its A-OK!"

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 Post subject: Re: Missionary Charged, Church being Sued in KY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:44 am 
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The article says:
Quote:
In court documents, the church argues that the case should be dismissed. It says some of the claims might be barred by statute of limitations, and that it cannot be held responsible for actions of someone not necessarily under its control.


Not necessarily under its control? Exactly when, in the 2 years a missionary serves, are his actions not under the church's control? Isn't that the point of the mission?

The article then says:
Quote:
Michael Stidham, a Jackson lawyer who represents the mother and son, said he has not seen the church's response to the lawsuit, but that he does not understand how freedom of religion can translate to protection against lawsuits when a member of the church commits a crime.


On the other hand, I don't see how the church can be responsible for actions a member commits, unless the church is in direct control.

I don't think this is a cut and dried case.


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 Post subject: Re: Missionary Charged, Church being Sued in KY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:46 pm 
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harmony wrote:
The article says:
Quote:
In court documents, the church argues that the case should be dismissed. It says some of the claims might be barred by statute of limitations, and that it cannot be held responsible for actions of someone not necessarily under its control.


Not necessarily under its control? Exactly when, in the 2 years a missionary serves, are his actions not under the church's control? Isn't that the point of the mission?

The article then says:
Quote:
Michael Stidham, a Jackson lawyer who represents the mother and son, said he has not seen the church's response to the lawsuit, but that he does not understand how freedom of religion can translate to protection against lawsuits when a member of the church commits a crime.


On the other hand, I don't see how the church can be responsible for actions a member commits, unless the church is in direct control.

I don't think this is a cut and dried case.


actually given the fact that two 19 year olds are often a long way from their mission president there is little real controll over them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:35 pm 
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The only reason I can possibly see the Church being liable in this is instance is the fact that the Church has money and there probably isn't much you could take from a 19 year old, at least not if you want to get paid very quickly. Don't lawyers admit that the purpose of tort law isn't justice as much as to compensate the victim.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:46 pm 
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Where was this guys companion while this was going on?

I had a girl tell a local bishop that I was the Father of her child. hard to do that since I was never without my companion. (Also she was pregnant when we met her, and had just kicked out her boyfriend for being "unhygenic")

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:48 pm 
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Lawyers would never take the case unless someone had deep pockets.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:23 am 
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I thought that any of this awful stuff is Not suppose to happen anymore with any of the Missionaries, since the Church a few years ago raised the bar on righteousness on all the Missionaries who are now going out.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:39 pm 
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I'm not sure how they look at this legally, but the major difference I see between this and the money people were able to squeeze out of the Catholic Church is that Catholic bishops are paid for and supported by the Church. If Mormon missionaries were at least mostly supported by their own family, than how is he different from any other church member out out on a service project. I'm sure torts have have been committed many times by members even when they were about the Church's business. When did we start saying that this justifies taking money from the Church?

Of course I also saw a lot of the Catholic bishop scandals as a money making scam as well even though I'm not Catholic. There is no perfect system to accurately predict and avoid unsavory human behaviors. They know this. They're just looking for a quick payday. In our desire for fairness, we achieve greater unfairness still. Our legal remedies are worse to the overall justice of the gengeral population than the status quo. Why don't we just call it what it is, socialism and the democratic party.

It appears that this missionary who allegedly did this must have been gay as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:06 am 
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What the $*% does freedom of religion have to do with anything? Was this kid one of this mishies spiritual husbands? Wait a minute...the church doesn't like gays. And how can the church say this kid wasn't under its control?

Sick...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:41 pm 
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I say if this kid is guilty we should go pre-Utah on him, go to the law of good old fashion Deseret and castrate the scumbag.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:04 pm 
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If this missionary is guilty, I hope he's punished to the extent possible. But it's probably inappropriate to judge him presently. He denies he's guilty. He's not speaking nor can his companion at the time. This is for understandable legal reasons.

Many times those accused of such crimes are innocent. Many times they are not. Why let our proclivities cloud our judgment. I hope the elder is innocent, but having seen my share of bad apples, I would not be surprised either way. I can say, however, that there's not enough to judge him on now.

If he does turn out to be guilty, the church should also look closely at his partner to see how the abuse could have possibly happened.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:11 pm 
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Confed wrote:
If this missionary is guilty, I hope he's punished to the extent possible. But it's probably inappropriate to judge him presently. He denies he's guilty. He's not speaking nor can his companion at the time. This is for understandable legal reasons.

Many times those accused of such crimes are innocent. Many times they are not. Why let our proclivities cloud our judgment. I hope the elder is innocent, but having seen my share of bad apples, I would not be surprised either way. I can say, however, that there's not enough to judge him on now.

If he does turn out to be guilty, the church should also look closely at his partner to see how the abuse could have possibly happened.


Welcome to the jungle, Confed. :-) How did you happen to find us?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:34 pm 
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Hi, thanks.

I'm on a bunch of other boards (computer, legal, photography) but just drifted in. Not sure I'm cut out for it or here, but we'll see. In the case of this young missionary, I'm surprised by the folks that seemingly want his head on a pole without knowing anything about the case. It's why we have courts. As Robert E. Lee said, "Obedience to lawful authority is the foundation of manly character." Part of obedience is to let it run its course. I think many Catholic priests get the wrong end of the stick as well.

Catch ya later.

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 Post subject: Re: Missionary Charged, Church being Sued in KY
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:01 am 
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Jason Bourne wrote:

actually given the fact that two 19 year olds are often a long way from their mission president there is little real controll over them.


Beyond the mission president there are Apes, ZLs, a DL much closer and a companion all responsible for monitoring his actions and all church ministers, plus strict guidlines what to he is to do including not being alone. I would say the church had much more control than they wish to admit and predict LDS inc. will role over like a fat pig on this one and settle.


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 Post subject: Re: Missionary Charged, Church being Sued in KY
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:30 pm 
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TAK wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:

actually given the fact that two 19 year olds are often a long way from their mission president there is little real controll over them.


Beyond the mission president there are Apes, ZLs, a DL much closer and a companion all responsible for monitoring his actions and all church ministers, plus strict guidlines what to he is to do including not being alone. I would say the church had much more control than they wish to admit and predict LDS inc. will role over like a fat pig on this one and settle.


Of course they will settle. Fighting it would require them to open the books (remember the case in Multnomah county OR a few years ago? IIRC, the judge ordered the books be delivered to his office, so he could determine monetary value. The church settled immediately)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:59 am 
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Why can LDS Inc be held responsible for the actions of a missionary and yet they cannot be held responsible for the actions of their members on September 11th, 1857?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:53 pm 
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Maybe there is a statute of limitations involved? I don't know. Could the families of Sept. 11 victims sue the Islamic sects to which the hijackers belonged? I saw where a California state court awarded a judgment of money to be paid by Suzuki, a Japanese company, to the descendants of Chinese people who had been forced into slave labor during WWII. This only worked because Suzuki had assets in the U.S.

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