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 Post subject: Just ran into a blatant morg
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:22 am 
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anyone can say anything on the internet against the church, that doesn't mean its true. you can find stuff showing that thye earth is flat.(i argued scientific review standards, she didn't care) And just because you got it out of a book or from a scientist doesn't mean they properly understand it. Its from god, and god knows everything. So you have to follow it all on faith when there is no evidence. I don't care what they have found or what you say. I know what we (Mormons) believe. All this stuff you are saying about Adam/god or the changes to the Book of Mormon aren't taught, so i know they aren't true. There is only 1 Book of Mormon. I don't know anything about that whole thing about that hill of cummorah stuff, steel weapons/armor, horses, dna, but even without evidence doesn't mean its not true! And about the DNA stuff, ever heard of people migrating.(i couldn't convince her that we could track that too) You are just taking this all out of context. God ordered Joseph Smith to begin polygamy, and then to bring it back. So i don't question it. You should read the Book of Mormon with an open mind, you might learn something.ect ect ect(emphasis addded, parenthesis me)


man.....it was like pounding sand. Anything i said that was contradictory was dissmarrily dismissed as junk. Though i think i convinced her to read the journal of discourses. She didn't believe any of the quotes i pulled from there about blood atonement or the adam/god doctrine.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:39 am 
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Oh yeah, i also brought up the US census buro(stake president?) on Mormon retention rates being around 20-30% after 1 year. Since i offered to bring up the official government website, they use the "you can find anything on the internet" argument. even though i pointed out that the government has nothing to gain or loose from that information.

Nor would she believe me that there have been at least 4 offshoots of Mormonism that survive today. She laughed at me, even as i named them. sad....sad...sad...brainwashed young woman....

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:10 am 
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Sono_hito wrote:
Oh yeah, i also brought up the US census buro(stake president?) on Mormon retention rates being around 20-30% after 1 year. Since i offered to bring up the official government website, they use the "you can find anything on the internet" argument. even though i pointed out that the government has nothing to gain or loose from that information.

Nor would she believe me that there have been at least 4 offshoots of Mormonism that survive today. She laughed at me, even as i named them. sad....sad...sad...brainwashed young woman....


I'm less concerned about people believing in Mormonism than I am about people being so incredibly closed-minded as to not even want to discuss the evidence. To me, that is frightening. At least you've opened her up to the possibility of differing perspectives, which she may not even have acknowledged before talking to you.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:15 am 
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It seems to be a human trait to criticize, chide, and ridicule others about things we tend to dislike most about ourselves.

I don't know that it is a very functional human trait, but I suspect that we do it because there is at least some pay-off (be it a false sense of superiority, or a convenient way of directing attention away from our own vulnerabilities and perceived flaws, etc.)

Imagine how better off we all would be were our efforts (particularly those of a public nature) were focused more on promoting mutual love, value, and respect, rather than criticism, chiding, and ridicule.

Just a thought.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:21 am 
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wenglund wrote:
It seems to be a human trait to criticize, chide, and ridicule others about things we tend to dislike most about ourselves.

I don't know that it is a very functional human trait, but I suspect that we do it because there is at least some pay-off (be it a false sense of superiority, or a convenient way of directing attention away from our own vulnerabilities and perceived flaws, etc.)

Imagine how better off we all would be were our efforts (particularly those of a public nature) were focused more on promoting mutual love, value, and respect, rather than criticism, chiding, and ridicule.

Just a thought.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Did I read this correctly?

Did Wade just admit to being a bigot?


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 Post subject: Re: Just ran into a blatant morg
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:26 am 
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Quote:
All this stuff you are saying about Adam/god or the changes to the Book of Mormon aren't taught, so i know they aren't true.


This is the line that just blows me away and causes people use the label of cult. No need for further discussion with this type of person at this time.

Chris <><


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:29 am 
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It could be worse.

They could say "I know about all of that stuff, and still think the church is true."

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:36 am 
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Bryan Inks wrote:

Did I read this correctly?

Did Wade just admit to being a bigot?


I think he's calling us hypocritical, actually.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:49 am 
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Runtu wrote:
Bryan Inks wrote:

Did I read this correctly?

Did Wade just admit to being a bigot?


I think he's calling us hypocritical, actually.


Eye of the beholder, what?

XD

My personal theory is that in order to be true it must be applicable across the board (board = reality). For Wade's comments to equate to our being hypocritical, it must also equate that he is a bigot.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:49 am 
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Bryan Inks wrote:
Runtu wrote:
Bryan Inks wrote:

Did I read this correctly?

Did Wade just admit to being a bigot?


I think he's calling us hypocritical, actually.


Eye of the beholder, what?

XD

My personal theory is that in order to be true it must be applicable across the board (board = reality). For Wade's comments to equate to our being hypocritical, it must also equate that he is a bigot.


Hadn't thought it, but you're right.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:54 am 
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Bryan Inks wrote:
Did I read this correctly?

Did Wade just admit to being a bigot?


I would have thought a more correct reading of my generic post would have engendered introspective questions rather than questions about me.

Be that as it may, given my own healthy introspection and honest self-appraisal, I must admit that there have been, and to some degree still are, areas of insecurities and irrational prejudices in me that would be in the interest of all parties (especially me) to acknowledge, improve, and correct. I have certainly noticed, since I began working on these issues a while back, a marked improvement in the quality of my life and a more positive influence I seem to have on and with others. I have been made a much better person for it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:03 am 
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wenglund wrote:
I would have thought a more correct reading of my generic post would have engendered introspective questions rather than questions about me.


I would have thought that Bryan's post would have engendered introspective questions instead of questions about Bryan's reading comprehension. What exactly is a "correct" reading of your post, Wade?

Quote:
Be that as it may, given my own healthy introspection and honest self-appraisal, I must admit that there have been, and to some degree still are, areas of insecurities and irrational prejudices in me that would be in the interest of all parties (especially me) to acknowledge, improve, and correct.


I would agree. We all have room for improvement, myself included. I know, far be it from me to be self-critical and introspective. ;)

Quote:
I have certainly noticed, since I began working on these issues a while back, a marked improvement in the quality of my life and a more positive influence I seem to have on and with others. I have been made a much better person for it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


I feel a lot better about life for a variety of reasons. Lately, I feel better that I'm not taking your comments personally. That's a start for me.

Anyway, back to the OP, I'm not criticizing another person, but rather the attitude that is so immediately dismissive of things that don't square with one's beliefs. I've been guilty of that, but hopefully, I'm getting better.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:15 am 
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Runtu wrote:
Bryan Inks wrote:

Did I read this correctly?

Did Wade just admit to being a bigot?


I think he's calling us hypocritical, actually.


Actually, Bryon was somewhat correct. As indicated in my last post, my innitial comments on this thread were designed to envoke introspection, and as such I viewed it as me speaking about myself. And, what I was saying about myself was not so much judgemental or accusatory, but rather evaluative and perscriptive. I saw my past self, and to some degree my current self, in the way that Sono Hito spoke about the woman he interacted with, and I determined for myself that all would be better served were I to find a more loving, valuing, and respectful approach.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:01 pm 
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wenglund wrote:
Runtu wrote:
Bryan Inks wrote:

Did I read this correctly?

Did Wade just admit to being a bigot?


I think he's calling us hypocritical, actually.


Actually, Bryon was somewhat correct. As indicated in my last post, my innitial comments on this thread were designed to envoke introspection, and as such I viewed it as me speaking about myself. And, what I was saying about myself was not so much judgemental or accusatory, but rather evaluative and perscriptive. I saw my past self, and to some degree my current self, in the way that Sono Hito spoke about the woman he interacted with, and I determined for myself that all would be better served were I to find a more loving, valuing, and respectful approach.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Come on, Wade. When have you ever been spurred to "introspection" by anyone else's remarks? You had to come to in on your own, and so does everyone else. So your "lead by example" blather is really more hypocrisy on your part.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:09 pm 
Well, Wade, for what it's worth, I agree with your comments here:

Quote:
It seems to be a human trait to criticize, chide, and ridicule others about things we tend to dislike most about ourselves.

I don't know that it is a very functional human trait, but I suspect that we do it because there is at least some pay-off (be it a false sense of superiority, or a convenient way of directing attention away from our own vulnerabilities and perceived flaws, etc.)

Imagine how better off we all would be were our efforts (particularly those of a public nature) were focused more on promoting mutual love, value, and respect, rather than criticism, chiding, and ridicule.

Just a thought.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


I know...we better make sure that the sky isn't falling...I've agreed with one of Plutarch's statements and one of Wade's statements in the same week! LOL

Seriously...Wade...if you have a moment...read my comments on the "For Plutarch" thread. You might find it interesting.

;)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:24 pm 
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liz3564 wrote:
Well, Wade, for what it's worth, I agree with your comments here:

I know...we better make sure that the sky isn't falling...I've agreed with one of Plutarch's statements and one of Wade's statements in the same week! LOL

Seriously...Wade...if you have a moment...read my comments on the "For Plutarch" thread. You might find it interesting.
;)


I had read them, and they were not only interesting, but they resonated with me as well. In fact, I thought it sufficient enough in itself not to add follow-up comments of my own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Last edited by wenglund on Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:25 pm 
wenglund wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
Well, Wade, for what it's worth, I agree with your comments here:

I know...we better make sure that the sky isn't falling...I've agreed with one of Plutarch's statements and one of Wade's statements in the same week! LOL

Seriously...Wade...if you have a moment...read my comments on the "For Plutarch" thread. You might find it interesting.
;)


I had read ithem, and it not only was interesting, but it resonated with me. In fact, I thought it sufficient enough in itself not to add follow-up comments of my own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Thanks, Wade! :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:08 pm 
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wenglund wrote:
Runtu wrote:
Bryan Inks wrote:

Did I read this correctly?

Did Wade just admit to being a bigot?


I think he's calling us hypocritical, actually.


Actually, Bryon was somewhat correct. As indicated in my last post, my innitial comments on this thread were designed to envoke introspection, and as such I viewed it as me speaking about myself. And, what I was saying about myself was not so much judgemental or accusatory, but rather evaluative and perscriptive. I saw my past self, and to some degree my current self, in the way that Sono Hito spoke about the woman he interacted with, and I determined for myself that all would be better served were I to find a more loving, valuing, and respectful approach.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


That's good to hear, because I had assumed that you were simply trying to minimize criticism of the Mormon woman and imply criticism of the OP.

So, anyway, while you're on an intropsection high, does this mean you're forsaking your "counseling for ex-mormons" project? I'm asking because the "suggestions wanted" thread is sinking to the bottom and I'd asked for your input on something that hasn't been responded to. Thanks, Lucretia


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:29 pm 
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Lucretia MacEvil wrote:
That's good to hear, because I had assumed that you were simply trying to minimize criticism of the Mormon woman and imply criticism of the OP.

So, anyway, while you're on an intropsection high, does this mean you're forsaking your "counseling for ex-mormons" project? I'm asking because the "suggestions wanted" thread is sinking to the bottom and I'd asked for your input on something that hasn't been responded to. Thanks, Lucretia


I think my "introspective high" will position me better to facilitate the self-help offered to ex-Mormons and Mormons alike.

I will check the thread you mentioned and respond as best I can.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:34 pm 
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Now, come on here. Anyone who worships ancient mythological Norse Gods who spend most of their time drinking mead, fighting and carousing in drunken parties at the Asgard Marriot, and chasing gigantic, poisen spitting serpents (when they're not plotting and scheming against each other following their ancient Greek contemporaries) has only limited credibility when criticising the reiligions of others, don't you think?


Loran


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:48 pm 
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Coggins7 wrote:
Now, come on here. Anyone who worships ancient mythological Norse Gods who spend most of their time drinking mead, fighting and carousing in drunken parties at the Asgard Marriot, and chasing gigantic, poisen spitting serpents (when they're not plotting and scheming against each other following their ancient Greek contemporaries) has only limited credibility when criticising the reiligions of others, don't you think?


Loran


Since when do Mormons believe that religious belief determines one's credibility? Sounds like bigotry to me.

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