It is currently Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:06 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 267 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 13  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:44 pm 
Seething Cauldron of Hate
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 7173
Mister Scratch wrote:
I've told you why I've been critical of you: it's because I think that apologetics, as led by you, is really, truly an evil enterprise. It needs to be shut down.

We disagree, on many levels. I don't "lead" apologetics, for one thing. And I think it's perfectly absurd to describe the FARMS Review, let alone the writings of Jack Welch and Stephen Ricks and Kevin Barney and Brant Gardiner and John Clark and Blake Ostler and the scores of other "apologists" out there, as evil.

Mister Scratch wrote:
Also, I object to the way you treat others on the various messageboards.

I believe in vigorous discussion, but I've never fallen to anything like the level of many here on this very board for whom you've never had a word of criticism.

Mister Scratch wrote:
And what are we to make of the ways you treat Mike Quinn, Robert Ritner, James White, Tal Bachman, Harmony, and countless other people?

With regard to Mike Quinn and Robert Ritner, most of what you say about how I've treated them is pure fiction. With regard to Tal Bachman, I've never responded to him in the spirit with which he's treated me from the beginning, nor said even a portion of what I could. James White? A long history. He gives at least as good as he gets. Harmony? I'd finally had enough of her claiming that I was indifferent to the oppression of Afghan women, unconcerned about burnt-out schools, serene about murdered schoolchildren. I've never said anything remotely so horrific about her, and never would.

Mister Scratch wrote:
In the end, you'll just say, in some way, shape, or form: "They deserved it!"

I've done nothing to Quinn or Ritner or Bachman. Did they deserve my doing nothing to them? Probably.

Mister Scratch wrote:
Well, so did you. You get what you give, Professor P.

I've never done anything to anybody remotely like what you've been doing to me for the past three years.

Mister Scratch wrote:
I'll simply end by informing the rest of the posters here about your little "taunting" game some time back.

I'll admit that I had some fun with you. I didn't seek out any information about your whereabouts or identity, but it came to me unbidden. And after three years of your relentless Scratchoscopies, during which you criticized my employment contract, my personal finances, my income, and my taste in music and literature and art, and twisted my every word to make me look cruel and hypocritical, and the like, it was genuinely amusing to see how upset you immediately became at the mere thought that somebody might possibly know something about you. You plainly preferred to do your character assassination from deep cover. Yet I never outed you, never actually said what I knew, never revealed your whereabouts, nothing.

Mister Scratch wrote:
he was using this information to try and attack me. Probably nobody noticed, but that's what he was up to.

Hardly.

Mister Scratch wrote:
So: he was using ill-begotten information to try and shut me up, or to exact revenge against me.

Subtly dropping passing mention of an obscure and inobvious reference to the Trojans or to Gould Hall (or whatever it is) into a post isn't a very powerful method of shutting anybody up, let alone of "exacting revenge."

Mister Scratch wrote:
This ought to answer the question of whether or not he peddles people's IRL information in an unethical fashion.

I think it does. Had I actually wanted to reveal your IRL information, I would have outright said what I knew. As it is, I doubt that very many even noticed those obscure passing references in a relative handful of posts, and I doubt that, if they had, they would have known what to make of them.

Mister Scratch wrote:
Did I deserve this kind of treatment?

Oh, yes indeed. And then some.

Mister Scratch wrote:
In any case, thus ends Mister Scratch.

Well, I didn't ask you to leave, but I can't truthfully say that I'll miss you if you really do. I invited you to stick around and post on substantive topics unrelated to attacking me, but I guess that doesn't interest you. (Sadly, your reaction was predictable.)

I'll be surprised, candidly, if you really stay away. I expect that you'll be back, even if not under the moniker of Mister Scratch. If you do come back, though, your distinct hoofprint -- your intense personal loathing of me and of Mormon apologetics -- will be immediately apparent.




.

_________________

http://mormonscholarstestify.org
http://mormonscholarstestify.org/category/testimonies

I quote dead people.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:38 pm 
Mister Scratch wrote:
Did I deserve this kind of treatment? Maybe so. But, it doesn't matter. In any case, thus ends Mister Scratch.


Too bad. You're an effective foil.

I have also come to believe you are more than one person.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:21 pm 
Regional Representative
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 666
I almost feel bad for saying it -- since I genuinely, really and truly think DCP's a decent fellow and happen to like him a good deal -- but if Scratch is really gone, heartbroken doesn't begin to cover it. I love Scratch. He's funny, clever, and incapable of being un-entertaining. And as a fan of the surreal and the absurd, Scratch certainly kept me fixed (no offense there, buddy). I'm much more a lurker than an active participant on this board, and it has always been Scratch that keeps me coming back. With him gone, I honestly don't know where I'll waste my workday. All the other boards suck precisely because Scratch doesn't post on them.

I'll be wearing a black armband on each arm and taking a week-long vow of silence in observance of Scratch's departure. Mister Scratch, please reconsider. But if this is it, just know you have a fan in Dwight Frye.

I'll close by quoting my all time favorite bit of Scratch's writing:

Well, this is all very fascinating. Really, it has caused me to push away from my keyboard momentarily as I nod gravely and press my fingers together in a steeple shape. In my mind, I say, "Yes, it's all beginning to come together now."

:lol:

To borrow a line from Eugene Levy in A Mighty Wind, I know that I will always think of you fondly, dear Scratch, every time I see a rose. :cry:

Goodbye, Mister Scratch. God be with you till we meet again.

_________________
"Christian anti-Mormons are no different than that wonderful old man down the street who turns out to be a child molester." - Obiwan, nutjob Mormon apologist - Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:25 pm


Last edited by Dwight Frye on Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:31 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 7213
Dwight Frye wrote:
I almost feel bad for saying it -- since I genuinely, really and truly think DCP's a decent fellow and happen to like him a good deal -- but if Scratch is really gone, heartbroken doesn't begin to cover it. I love Scratch. He's funny, clever, and incapable of being un-entertaining. And as a fan of the surreal and the absurd, Scratch certainly kept me fixed (no offense there, buddy).


Yeah, I don't almost feel bad for saying it. I genuinely feel guilty for saying it: I adored Scratch's writing. I came to disagree with what he was doing, and sick man that I am I still found some of his writing hilarious. I'm right there with you, DF, on the whole surreal and absurd aspect. I have said it on multiple occasions, but I'll say it once more: it was like having our own Andy Kaufman on MormonDiscussions.com. The departures from reality were just too sweet.

_________________
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:44 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:05 pm
Posts: 11832
In contrast to all the sobering reflection regarding the leaving of Scratch I'd like to offer this tribute:

Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!
Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead. She's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Witch is dead!

_________________
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:36 pm 
Apostle

Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:56 pm
Posts: 761
rcrocket wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:
Did I deserve this kind of treatment? Maybe so. But, it doesn't matter. In any case, thus ends Mister Scratch.


Too bad. You're an effective foil.

I have also come to believe you are more than one person.


I believe DCP and Mister Scratch are the same. Daniel takes on the Mister Scratch persona when tightening his cilice.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:40 pm 
Apostle

Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:56 pm
Posts: 761
The Nehor wrote:
In contrast to all the sobering reflection regarding the leaving of Scratch I'd like to offer this tribute:

Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!
Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead. She's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Witch is dead!


Most members call this Choking the Bishop. Your words are appropriate for you, though.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:52 pm 
Founder & Visionary
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:07 pm
Posts: 13763
Location: Shady Acres Status: MODERATOR
Mister Scratch wrote:
I'll tell you what: I've said before that I'd retire if you'd simply apologize or demonstrate some accountability for your less-than-admirable behavior. This time, I'll make a different offer: if you do genuinely think I'm a bad person, that I'm insane, or "hostile," or whatever else, then say so, in direct terms, and I'll depart for good.

C'mon, Mister Scratch; you made it WAY too easy!

I considered chiming in and telling you so beforehand, but I unfortunately moved on instead. If you really are gone, then I regret not having said something.

Happy trails to you. Feel free to PM me anytime.

_________________
"Belief is driven by psychology, not intelligence."

--Analytics, 09-11-2019


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:57 pm 
Seething Cauldron of Hate
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 7173
Dr. Shades wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:
I'll tell you what: I've said before that I'd retire if you'd simply apologize or demonstrate some accountability for your less-than-admirable behavior. This time, I'll make a different offer: if you do genuinely think I'm a bad person, that I'm insane, or "hostile," or whatever else, then say so, in direct terms, and I'll depart for good.

C'mon, Mister Scratch; you made it WAY too easy!

I was puzzled by that, too. Surely he knew what I think of him. I've said it scores of times.

Perhaps, for some reason, he was looking for an excuse to leave?

_________________

http://mormonscholarstestify.org
http://mormonscholarstestify.org/category/testimonies

I quote dead people.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:07 pm 
Regional Representative
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 666
Daniel Peterson wrote:
Perhaps, for some reason, he was looking for an excuse to leave?

As much as the idea saddens me, I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps whatever knowledge of him you have (or whatever he believes you have) was enough to make him too uncomfortable to continue posting -- as Scratch, anyway. I hope whoever he is, he finds his way back.

_________________
"Christian anti-Mormons are no different than that wonderful old man down the street who turns out to be a child molester." - Obiwan, nutjob Mormon apologist - Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:25 pm


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:51 pm 
Hermit
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:12 pm
Posts: 9077
Location: Cave
Well, this is interesting. My father virtually commits suicide and not so much as a goodby note. The way he kept his word though, is certainly a devastating blow.

_________________
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero


Last edited by Gadianton on Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:36 am 
Founder & Visionary
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:07 pm
Posts: 13763
Location: Shady Acres Status: MODERATOR
Daniel Peterson wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
C'mon, Mister Scratch; you made it WAY too easy!

I was puzzled by that, too. Surely he knew what I think of him. I've said it scores of times.

Perhaps, for some reason, he was looking for an excuse to leave?

Considering how easy he made it, that's about the only theory that makes sense.

MISTER SCRATCH: If you're reading this, who will inherit your "informants?"

_________________
"Belief is driven by psychology, not intelligence."

--Analytics, 09-11-2019


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:11 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 7213
Gadianton wrote:
And Trevor, why are you so conflicted over liking Scratch?


Because he is clearly talented and I find his writing very entertaining, but there was something disconcerting about his fixation on DCP. More to the point, I don't believe that his characterization of Mopologetics was fair or accurate. For the most part, I don't think that people, even Mopologists, are as dark as Scratch painted them.

Gadianton wrote:
Why don't you drop your sockpuppet, "Trevor," and reveal the real you that so many of us know and love?


I can't tell whether you think I am actually a sockpuppet or you are using the term to tell me that I have changed from the person you used to know and love.

Gadianton wrote:
Why not give Peterson (ok, my one and only slip) reason to doubt his "suspicions"?


You lost me on that one.

Gadianton wrote:
You know, I kind of think you took Peterson's heaping praise a little too enthusiastically. He used to praise little ole me like that too my friend, years ago, because I sided with the apologists when I believed critics were being unfair with them. I learned though, as you may not learn, who knows, that this is a very one way friendship. When you're getting kicked in the nuts by an apologist, don't expect him to come running to your defense. But expect him to absolutely love it (and your intellect will raise substantially in his view) when you break ranks with a critic and defend him. Well, he certainly had some wonderful things to say about you when you left the forum a while ago, about your wisdom and so on. Wow, he can be an easy mark sometimes...


Well, I think you have it wrong here. You may recall Scratch's discussion of the motivations of apologists. It was in the course of that thread that my perspective on apologists changed. The pieces fell into place, so to speak, and I no longer felt the same way about apologists or how I was behaving toward them. Was it nice to be complimented? Sure, but it has little to do, in the end, with how I got here. I have no great illusions about Daniel being my buddy. He really isn't here to make friends. In fact, my guess is that my shift from acting like a critic has insured that Daniel will hardly interact with me at all. I understood that very well at the time. He has been very forthcoming about what interests him on this board. The exit of Scratch will probably mean a decrease in his level of participation.

_________________
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:43 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:05 pm
Posts: 11832
Gadianton will pick up his father's sword and continue the crusade....assuming he's not actually Scratch already.

_________________
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:08 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 9589
So Scratch is gone. I find it strange that Scratch would bow out so quickly. I think that he may have been afraid that his identity would be revealed.

However, Farms/Maxwell Institute are becoming an integral part of the LDS church. They may be independent but their mission will be greatly expanded in the future as apologetics becomes more important to Salt Lake. Already the LDS church is engaged in apologetics by enlisting Youtube for Mormon Messages. More will surely follow.

I can see a day when apologetics will have its own department inside the church office building. And yes, I can see the LDS church hiring apologists to do the work on the internet and in publications. It will become more important as the internet takes on a more important role.

Daniel is just one cog in the maching of apologetics. He is the most vocal on the internet but there are many more with him ready to come to the church's defense. It is growing all the time as GAs begin to ask members to join the battle on the internet.

_________________
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith


Last edited by why me on Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:13 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 9589
Trevor wrote:
The exit of Scratch will probably mean a decrease in his level of participation.


I don't think so at all. Daniel will most likely be appearing more frequently on this board and his posts will be better in bring forth apologetics.

_________________
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:16 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:35 pm
Posts: 18195
Location: Shady Acres Status: MODERATOR
why me wrote:
Trevor wrote:
The exit of Scratch will probably mean a decrease in his level of participation.


I don't think so at all. Daniel will most likely be appearing more frequently on this board and his posts will be better in bring forth apologetics.


Can I interest you in some ocean front property located in Phoenix Arizona?

_________________
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:22 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 9589
harmony wrote:

Can I interest you in some ocean front property located in Phoenix Arizona?

To my knowledge Daniel posts on two boards: this one and MAD. On this forum he has been replying to attacks against him. If these attacks cease, you will see Daniel engaging people in good apologetics. And that in the end is what it is all about.

_________________
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:52 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 7213
why me wrote:
I don't think so at all. Daniel will most likely be appearing more frequently on this board and his posts will be better in bring forth apologetics.


I suppose you could be right. We'll see what happens.

_________________
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:04 pm 
Famous Potato
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:38 am
Posts: 1417
Location: Idaho
Maybe Scratch just got a belly full of it. He posted this previously.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8592&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=63

Stendahl's Rules
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:30 pm

Quote:
Yes. Of course. I'm sure one day I will grow weary of scoring endless points against you. You could probably put an end to it by following your own advice and displaying some humility, but, obviously, you are incapable of that.Of course you can't. Just like you can't imagine why anyone might take issue with your Mopologetics, or your online behavior. You're just a perfect little angel who never condescends, and who never does anything remotely objectionable.


If Dr. Dan wanted Scratch out of his business, Scratch gave him many opportunities. Just like one of the many examples below. It’s just that Dr. Dan doesn’t post substance and couldn’t or wouldn’t answer the questions. Dr. Dan can’t put up or shut up, anyone notice how long his “basta” lasted. He left in huff like a pre-schooler rather than answer a challenge that would have rid him of Scratch.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8704&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=21

Scratch and DCP. Will it ever end?
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:52 am

Scratch wrote:
Quote:
Hey, I'll tell you what. You claim to take my criticism "very seriously," so I'll offer you yet another bargain. If you want to cop to feeling badly about an item that appeared in FROB, then I'll end my "career." And I'm not talking about a bit of punctuation, or some minor typo or editorial blunder (the "Metcalfe is Butthead" thing can count, though). I am talking about a case of gross misrepresentation, or hyper aggression, or something of that nature. If you want to admit (at last!) that you realize that some of these publications were extraordinarily wrong-headed, then I'll quit posting.

Do we have a deal?


Dr. Dan can’t even cop to the “Butthead” ordeal, go figure.

_________________
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably.
bcspace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:29 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 7213
Pokatator wrote:
If Dr. Dan wanted Scratch out of his business, Scratch gave him many opportunities.


Yes, but he handed Daniel one opportunity he knew would be taken. Obviously, he wanted out for some reason. Anyone want to do a Scratchoscopy on Scratch? Offering the sinister theory for the reasons behind his exit from MormonDiscussions.com?

_________________
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 267 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 13  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dr Moore, Majestic-12 [Bot] and 43 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group