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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:43 am 
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Jason Bourne wrote:
But you routinely state how incredulous you are about how LDS persons are so clearly indoctrinated in order believe an obviously lie and fraud. A good percentage of your posts are peppered with such comments.


Let us never forget the posts that assert that Mormons in particular and religious folk in general are lacking in intelligence. That one is such a gem, it should be framed and hung in the dining room of every Christian, right next to their picture of Christ.



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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:55 am 
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Wayneman wrote:
Let's see: 1. Inuyama, Nonami, Yokaichi, Kanazawa, Toyota, and one other, the name of which still eludes me. It was up north though, east of Kanazawa.

Hmm. Would that be Komatsu, Uozu, or perhaps Kenrokuen?

Quote:
But Amani and Materfis were my companions there, I remember. Oh, and Bidulph was the DL.

He and I spent two weeks as co-juniors, so you'll see his name quite a bit in my journal (just do a search on "Biddulph.") Anyway, you were in this mystery area from sometime after March 1991, right?

Also, it appears as though you were companions with Proctor at some point. Where was that, and at what stage of your mission?

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I'm telling you, I was atrocious about keeping a journal :)

Most were.

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I DID like him for at least one other thing, though. He loosened up the music-listening rules for p-day. Smith said no music, except Mo-Tab, and things like that. Ames said, basically, anything which wouldn't chase the Spirit away.

Needless to say, I think we all stretched that one a bit. :wink:

No doubt! Even the mission home staff was listening to MC Hammer.

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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:27 am 
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Quote:
Hmm. Would that be Komatsu, Uozu, or perhaps Kenrokuen?

UOZU! That's it.

Quote:
Also, it appears as though you were companions with Proctor at some point. Where was that, and at what stage of your mission?

I was never companions with Proctor. You may have got that info from the Nagoya Alumni website. Yes, I have him listed as a doryo, but when I filled out my profile (10 years ago), I just listed a bunch of guys I knew, along with my comps.

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No doubt! Even the mission home staff was listening to MC Hammer.

HAAAA. LOL! :lol: That is too funny!

BTW, I mentioned that you are the first person from our mission I have been in contact with.

That is inaccurate. Baggs (you remember him?) called me up about two years afterwards, to try to get me to join some vitamin-selling pyramid scheme.

It PISSED me off! Damn Mormons. :wink:

I was excited to get the phone call (how he got my number, I don't know), but he quickly dispensed with the niceties, and went right into his shpeel.

And Rasmussen (one of my comps in Kanazawa, before he became an AP) actually emailed me once about 10 years ago. I had forgotten all about that. But, honestly, that is about it.

I know you've been in contact with Pres. Smith, but has there been anybody else? Other than your extensive work online, what have you been up to for 17 years?

Oh, and one more thing:

I said earlier that I wasn't here to re-convert you to the faith.

I lied. Get your ass back to church. :razz:


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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Wayneman wrote:
Quote:
Get your ass back to church. :razz

You know, reactivation efforts should proceed more along these lines. I'm sick of the cookies, meals, nice neighbor crap that currently qualifies as reactivation. Wayneman's approach is not only more effective, but much more efficient. If they say no, you simply curse at them, dust your feet off, and go visit someone that is active.


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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:52 pm 
I've occasionally reconnected with a few missionaries from my mission over the years, as well as missionaries who visited when I was a full-fledged liberal apostate. I was surprised to learn recently that one of the latter went on to become possibly Australia's first member of any Parliament, David Gibson (PDF).

So I contacted David after learning about this from Noel (aussieguy55), and we established email contact, and "caught up" after some 17 years or so. David knew I was liberal apostate who occasionally attended Church in the '90s, but I think he was surprised at the depth of my loss of faith. Anyway after two or three emails he never wrote back, which isn't a big deal for me anyway, and he's possibly very busy with parliamentary duties. No skin off my nose; I haven't had home-teachers for 22 years, which isn't a big deal either - don't want them.

I've also had sporadic email contact with the missionary who baptised me, who was about 6' 2" and a wrestler, and in spite of being much shorter, he could never beat me at pulling sticks (an old Joseph Smith game), and we were about even at wrestling, sometimes I'd throw him, sometimes he'd throw me, and we often went to the gym together on his P-days. Mind you, he's still pumping iron, and I think bench pressing something like over 500 pounds, so any more wrestling is definitely out of the question. For me anyway. These days I'd be lucky to throw a goat.

I also went through some old mission profiles the other night to see who's been up to what, and learned that one of our missionaries died in a motor-cycle accident at 51. Another died of stomach cancer, I believe at a much younger age. In spite of so many years, I could still recognise all of the now aged faces. It was interesting to see their families too. And as far as I know, both of my mission presidents are still alive. One was Marvin Wallin, a former manager of Bookcraft. The other, Allen Swan, was among the first Regional Representatives chosen in 1967, IIRC. In that same group was Elder Neal A. Maxwell, who later went on to become an apostle. And of course there was Loren Dunn, the famous (some would say "infamous") Sydney Mission President who "tidied up" the "mess" left by Earl Tingey, who was the MP when I joined the Church. In those days lots of people were saying that Tingey would be an apostle one day, but I think he's an Emeritus General Authority now.

I know this thread is about Wayneman and Shades, but I thought I'd add some of my own reflections. And no, I have no regrets about leaving the Church, nor any desire to return. But I think in some ways "Mormon culture" has rubbed off on me, certainly much more than Catholicism ever did. Sort of like Clayton's, the religion you have when you're not having a religion. I haven't always been popular because of my apostasy, but I've made lots and lots of friends, all over the world, through my now 34 year "Mormon connection". It's almost tempting to say that, like Judaism, Mormonism isn't just a religion, it's a way of life.

It has been an interesting journey.


Last edited by Ray A on Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:56 pm 
Jason Bourne wrote:
Quote:
I don't claim atheism is morally superior to any particular position,


You claim that critical thinking unfettered by the shackles of what you personally view as naïve and silly beliefs is morally superior to moral positions that may have grounding in religious tradition.


Critical thinking and trust in one's own mind is likely to lead to more reliable decisions, better moral choices than non critical thinking and faith and obedience to authority. So for example we have a situation in the other thread in which you are telling Gazelam that his acceptance of church teachings has gone too far and you give an example with yourself, that just because your son is not a Mormon and just because your daughter broke the law of chastity that you still accept them. But Jason, that's not what the Church is teaching you. You have gone against the church teachings. Your critical thinking supercedes the authority of the church in these situations with your kids. Gazelam though does little critical thinking, he tends to accept fully whatever the Church teaches and so it's understandable his position. He's actually a very good obedient Mormon.

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hence I don't possess self righteous smugness


Your most certianly do. Your posts are full of your own sense of indignations and smugness against what you view as indoctrinated antiquated beliefs.


Well then anyone who criticizes anything according to you has self-righteous smugness. You deny the chruch indoctrinates, you deny that religions are based on antiquated beliefs devoid of the scientific knowledge we currently have of the world? Do you really believe in a J. Smith seer stone which glowed words while he looked into a hat. Do you really believe in angels? Yes I do think people are naïve who believe in things like this.

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but I certainly have heard from you how atheism = immorality and religious belief = morality.


No Marg you have not. Not really. I have, at least for quite sometime, refrained from that view and indeed it is not one I hold. So it seems at least in this area your analysis of what a poster's position is, is failing you. Go ahead Marg. Go find posts where I take this position. I think you will be hard pressed to find them. If you do I will apologize for them.


I do remember a discussion with you ..I believe you started the thread, you posted an article that a Dennis Prager wrote. I believe you said that you thought he made a good argument and his argument was something along the lines of 'were it not for religion, countries would be run by totalitarian atheistic dictatorships, like Hitler's Stalin's Pol Pot. And that discussion was within the last year.

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So certainly, you have an attitude of condescending self righteous smugness.


Actually you are wrong again. I don't go around at all stating how non believers are stupid, or lacked religious grounding in their early years so this is obviously why they are humanistic and amoral, or that they have chosen to reject God in order to satisfy their hedonistic lusts and desires and appease their conscience in order to do so. But you routinely state how incredulous you are about how LDS persons are so clearly indoctrinated in order believe an obviously lie and fraud. A good percentage of your posts are peppered with such comments.


Yes Jason, to believe in Mormonism one must be naïve, or credulous, or heavily indoctrinated. There are so many utterly ridiculous aspects to it that I truly can't think of many other explanations. And that's just the way it is Jason. Mormonism is one religion with ridiculous claims, there are many other religions with ridiculous claims. But religions are on a spectrum with some have more and/or greater ridiculous claims than others.

Surely Jason you think some non believers are stupid. And you would make that determination by judging some action they made or something they said. The notion that people shouldn't judge others is nonsense. Judging others is a survival mechanism, if you were unable to judge others your life would be in danger.

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As far as screaming, it seems you are the one doing the bitching



What a profound and intelligent response. I am in awe.


So you do judge others.


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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Wayneman wrote:
I was never companions with Proctor. You may have got that info from the Nagoya Alumni website.

Yep, that's exactly where I got it.

Quote:
Yes, I have him listed as a doryo, but when I filled out my profile (10 years ago), I just listed a bunch of guys I knew, along with my comps.

Poor Madsen must feel left out!

Quote:
BTW, I mentioned that you are the first person from our mission I have been in contact with.

That is inaccurate. Baggs (you remember him?) called me up about two years afterwards, to try to get me to join some vitamin-selling pyramid scheme.

It PISSED me off! Damn Mormons. :wink:

You know what? Biddulph did the exact same thing with me a couple of years after I got home. He got involved with some sort of food and water purification thing; you'd buy these drops to put into your drinks or whatever so that the chemicals, etc. would be counteracted.

Apparently he rose rather high in the organization. Although he lived in Washington State, he came to Utah to give one of their recruitment speeches. He invited me, I declined, then he forgot that he'd already invited me and invited me again. This time I accepted. I listened to the recruitment presentation, then in the mix-and-mingle afterwards I found out that I was the only one who wasn't already involved! When I told him I didn't have much interest he wasn't too pleased. Oh well.

Quote:
And Rasmussen (one of my comps in Kanazawa, before he became an AP) actually emailed me once about 10 years ago. I had forgotten all about that. But, honestly, that is about it.

I attended a student ward one time with my girlfriend. Rasmussen was there; we sat together. He was finishing up law school.

Quote:
I know you've been in contact with Pres. Smith, but has there been anybody else?

The one with whom I've been in most regular contact is Sister Ito (first name Chikako). She was Chandler's junior when she first got to the mission, I think. She was also Fisher's junior at the time of our first Christmas taikai. Sister Ito and I rode the plane home together (she had family in California), so we have that bond, you could say. We met up a few of times here in Utah, too; once we had lunch with President Smith and his wife. She's since gone back to Japan, gotten married, and had two kids, but we've continued to exchange New Year's cards up to the present. I've even called her a couple of times; the first time was to tell her that my chances of going to the Middle East are nil since I finished up my military obligations well over five years before 9/11.

Did you ever know her?

Beyond that, although it's been years, I ran into Frehner in Provo once--he was my first junior--and we've talked on the phone a couple of times.

And since we're on the topic, did you ever know Sister Maruoka? If so, what's your opinion of her?

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Other than your extensive work online, what have you been up to for 17 years?

I started college the Fall semester of 1992, then changed my major a few times before finally getting an Associate's Degree in 1996. I got married in 1995 (my first and only, her second). I worked a number of dead-end or quasi-dead-end jobs from 1992 until about 1997, at which time I settled into my current career. I went back to college from 2001 to 2003 to finish my Bachelor's Degree, working full time at the same time--it was tough (for me).

Quote:
Oh, and one more thing:

I said earlier that I wasn't here to re-convert you to the faith.

I lied. Get your ass back to church. :razz:

Hah! Most people would just as soon that I stay away. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:31 pm 
Nursery

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:42 am
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Quote:
I know this thread is about Wayneman and Shades, but I thought I'd add some of my own reflections.

... Which are very cool, Ray. Thanks for sharing. :wink:

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Poor Madsen must feel left out!

Ouch. Did I really leave him out? I don't think he liked me much anyway.

Quote:
You know what? Biddulph did the exact same thing with me a couple of years after I got home. He got involved with some sort of food and water purification thing; you'd buy these drops to put into your drinks or whatever so that the chemicals, etc. would be counteracted.

Are you serious? Biddulph was the "type" I guess, but he was cool.

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I attended a student ward one time with my girlfriend. Rasmussen was there; we sat together. He was finishing up law school.

Was that in Las Vegas? Or have you been in Utah the whole time?

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The one with whom I've been in most regular contact is Sister Ito (first name Chikako)... Did you ever know her?... And since we're on the topic, did you ever know Sister Maruoka? If so, what's your opinion of her?

I'm not sure... Do you have photos?

Quote:
I started college the Fall semester of 1992, then changed my major a few times before finally getting an Associate's Degree in 1996. I got married in 1995 (my first and only, her second). I worked a number of dead-end or quasi-dead-end jobs from 1992 until about 1997, at which time I settled into my current career. I went back to college from 2001 to 2003 to finish my Bachelor's Degree, working full time at the same time--it was tough (for me).

What is it you do now?

It took me 7 years to get my bachelors in neuropsychology, because I was trying to work full-time while going to school. But since I couldn't see myself doing research and statistical analyses for the rest of my life, I decided to get a credential and become a teacher... The pay sucks, but it is very rewarding.

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I lied. Get your ass back to church. :razz:

Quote:
Hah! Most people would just as soon that I stay away. :-)

You sell yourself short, bro. :smile: But don't worry, I'm not gonna pester you... too much. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:20 pm 
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Wayneman wrote:
Ouch. Did I really leave him out?

Yep.

Quote:
I don't think he liked me much anyway.

What makes you think that? I never noticed any tension between you two.

Quote:
Quote:
I attended a student ward one time with my girlfriend. Rasmussen was there; we sat together. He was finishing up law school.

Was that in Las Vegas? Or have you been in Utah the whole time?

I've been in Utah the whole time. He was going to law school at BYU, which isn't far from me.

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The one with whom I've been in most regular contact is Sister Ito (first name Chikako)... Did you ever know her?... And since we're on the topic, did you ever know Sister Maruoka? If so, what's your opinion of her?

I'm not sure... Do you have photos?


Yes, I certainly do. Although these aren't all the ones I have; they're the ones that are scanned and uploaded so far.

Sister Ito is standing at the extreme left of this shot, wearing gray:
Image

Failing that, CLICK HERE for the official photo. (Care to identify yourself to the other readers here?) Sister Ito is on the second row, third from the left. I don't have any other pictures of her until the next Christmast taikai and, quite literally, the last day of my mission.


As for Sister Maruoka, she's the rightmost sister in this photo:
Image

She's to the upper-right of this shot, wearing the same shirt top:
Image

Here's her on the right:
Image

Here's her to the right again:
Image

Here's her toward the center wearing a red hat:
Image

She looks much better when she wears her glasses, in my opinion. I have a FANTASTIC picture of her that I haven't scanned and posted yet; perhaps I'll do so and post it here later.

EDIT: Here's that picture I mentioned:

Ahh, Maruoka Shimai:
Image

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What is it you do now?

Check your Private Messages and find out. :-)

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It took me 7 years to get my bachelors in neuropsychology, because I was trying to work full-time while going to school. But since I couldn't see myself doing research and statistical analyses for the rest of my life, I decided to get a credential and become a teacher... The pay sucks, but it is very rewarding.

I'm considering getting my own teaching certificate before I retire from here and teaching for 11 years or so afterward (at least). I'm not looking forward to another round of work and school at the same time, though. It stressed me out last time, LITERALLY putting me in the hospital.

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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:21 pm 
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Hey, Shades. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Had a busy week...

But to answer your question, I DO remember Sister Ito. She was companions with Fisher, right? And I could swear they were both in my district, sometime, somewhere...

I'm thinking it was Inuyama?

As for Sis. Maruoka, I never served with her anywhere, but I definitely recognize her as one of several VERY attractive Japanese sister missionaries, which includes her companion in the photos (though I don't remember her name) :smile:

Also, in that photo, where you are on the left in a white t-shirt, and sister Maruoka on the right, with a girl sitting between you...

I swear I recognize that girl in the middle.

Finally, dare I ask why you ended in the hospital, bro? You can PM me on this one :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:36 pm 
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Wayneman wrote:
Let's see: 1. Inuyama, Nonami, Yokaichi, Kanazawa, Toyota, and one other, the name of which still eludes me.

I spent time in Kanazawa and Yokkaichi. Loved them both.

Also, nice pictures, Shades. I examined them closely to see if I recognized any members from my time, in case they were in an area we had in common (don't know if there are any). My assumption is that there has been a fair amount of turnover since '77, and that few, if any, of my converts and associates remained active. I'm very curious, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Another thing:

Has either of you been back to Nippon? I haven't, and it really annoys me, especially since I've been to Europe many times in the last couple of decades. I'm still determined.

In e-mail exchanges, an old companion of mine told me he went back to Nagoya on a business-related trip, conveniently while his son was serving there a few years ago. He said he popped in to visit his son, and even went out with them and tried his door approach.

That was interesting. Can you imagine your dad just showing up while you were there? This guy was always a white-book stickler, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:22 pm 
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Wayneman wrote:
Hey, Shades. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Had a busy week...

That's okay bro. :-)

Quote:
But to answer your question, I DO remember Sister Ito. She was companions with Fisher, right?

Correct. She was also companions with Chandler when she first got to the mission.

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And I could swear they were both in my district, sometime, somewhere...

I'm thinking it was Inuyama?

That's doubtful, since she got to the mission exactly five months after we did. Were you in Inuyama for six months or more?

Quote:
As for Sis. Maruoka, I never served with her anywhere, but I definitely recognize her as one of several VERY attractive Japanese sister missionaries, which includes her companion in the photos (though I don't remember her name) :smile:

The companion you're referring to is Sister Eri Tsukada. She had a steady boyfriend at home, and they got married sometime after she got back. She's got a couple of kids now.

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Also, in that photo, where you are on the left in a white t-shirt, and sister Maruoka on the right, with a girl sitting between you...

I swear I recognize that girl in the middle.

Could be. That's Miki Kato. She converted in Fukutoku.

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Finally, dare I ask why you ended in the hospital, bro? You can PM me on this one :wink:

Oh, I can tell you. I didn't know it at the time but I have acid reflux disease. Stress, or better yet extreme stress, triggers it (I found out). When it first hit me, I was doubled over in more pain than I thought possible for a human body to endure. If it had been even one iota worse, I probably would've taken my own life, THAT'S HOW BAD IT WAS. It turns out I was digesting myself from the inside.

A few more attacks and a few more trips to the emergency room later, after much trial-and-error I finally found a competent gastroenterologist that got me on a medication regimen. I appear to be cured, but of course I'm now done with school and thus am not under nearly the amount of stress I was before. Plus, "cured" is relative; I can't tempt fate by drinking any of my "triggers" except in EXTREME moderation.

krose wrote:
Also, nice pictures, Shades.

Thanks! There are a lot more posted in my missionary journal (link below) that might bring back some memories.

Quote:
I examined them closely to see if I recognized any members from my time, in case they were in an area we had in common (don't know if there are any).

Here are the areas in which I served, in order: Fukutoku, Okazaki, Inuyama, Takefu, and Meito-Kita. Any overlap?

krose wrote:
Has either of you been back to Nippon? I haven't, and it really annoys me, especially since I've been to Europe many times in the last couple of decades. I'm still determined.

No, I haven't been back, dang it, but I want to so badly I can taste it.

Did you know that DCP's son served in Nagoya too?

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"Apparently it takes LDS Inc. about 5 to 10 years to forget how much it hurt the last time it shot itself in the foot."

--Brother of Jerry, Recovery from Mormonism


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 Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:53 am 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Here are the areas in which I served, in order: Fukutoku, Okazaki, Inuyama, Takefu, and Meito-Kita. Any overlap?

I was in Fukutoku-cho (Kita-ku) inside Nagoya. Is that the same place or is it a different city?

I never lived in Okazaki, but went there for conferences and to visit the castle (and see the cherry blossoms, of course) when I was in nearby Toyohashi.

I have better overlap with Wayneman - the two places I mentioned earlier.

It's funny you both mentioned the schemes. Going to college in Cedar City, I met up with a guy I knew from the mission who tried to get me into selling Amway with him.

_________________
"We conservatives have an uncanny ability to know what Ronald Reagan would do at any given time. We're talking about hypothetical Super Reagan, the man who never raised taxes or tripled the deficit, and who knocked down the Berlin wall using his nut sack as a wrecking ball." - Stephen Colbert


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