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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:42 am 
wenglund wrote:
moksha wrote:
So Wade, do you have a preliminary plan for creating this listening post? How about a mission statement?


Hi Moksha,

Rather than creating a mission statement, I though I would craft a brief description of what the site is about, and include it as a part of the home page header (just under the site name). Here is what I have thought of so far:

"A self-help discussion board for LDS and former members to internally heal, repair and improve relationships, and become their best selves."

What do you think?

Besides the Guiding Principles and the Step-by-Step Process that I posted earlier in the thread, I also intend to include a notice in the header that will go something like:

"Notice: If you are suicidal, please call the Suicide HOTLINE. And, if your personal and relationship issues are significant enough to require a licenced professional, please contact LDS Family Services.

Additionally, I hope to include pages that explain Cognitive Behavior Therapy and Choice Theory and how each can be used in self-help ways. Also, as previously mentioned, I intend to have a resource page that the participants may be involved inp compiling and providing reviews and endorsments.

If things go as hoped, I will at some point include an Events Page (get togethers, conventions, etc.) as well as a Testimonial Page (for people to post their successes).

Can you or anyone else think what else may be useful?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


This sounds like a solid approach, Wade. One additional suggestion I would make is that in addition to including LDS Family Services, I would also include a link recommending competent psychologists in various states. Maybe Harmony or Truth Dancer would have that type of information handy. I'll look for a link myself when I'm feeling better.

The reason I suggest this is that if you're dealing with former members of the Church, some of them may not be too keen on LDS Family Services. It is a good organization, but I have also read accounts on RfM of people having had problems with them, which was part of the reason for the sourness with the Church. Just a thought. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:46 am 
GIMR wrote:
Runtu wrote:
Thanks. You too. What really sucks is that this is my normal day off (I work 4 days, 10 hours a day), and here I am in bed.


Aww, that sucks. You a football fan? SuperBowl Sunday this weekend...get better before then...

I have a barrage of doctors appointments over the next two months...I hope all these tests amount to nada. It was so funny, I went to get my physical yesterday, and the doc went to draw blood, and usually it hurts, but this time I felt nothing, so like a fool, I looked. Well, the doc had a bad collection tube, and it wouldn't draw blood. Combine that with not having eaten yet, and I almost fainted! I don't usually faint! Well, I did once in ROTC, but I was legitimately sick. And then there was the time one of my annoying aunts was yelling at me, and I just didn't feel like listening to her. Apparently fainting was a good way out...

But man, I felt like a punk...


Yikes, Runtu and GIMR! Sorry you guys are sick, too! Runtu, I know how you feel. Friday is my normal day off, too. My teaching schedule at the college is Monday through Thursday. What sucks is that because of weather issues, I have to schedule three make-up days which will end up being on Fridays, so my last Friday off for the term, I'm sick.

OK...enough bitching and moaning...LOL I'm off to try to get my 3 year old to take a nap so I can go back to bed. LOL


Last edited by Yoda on Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:47 am 
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liz3564 wrote:
This sounds like a solid approach, Wade. One additional suggestion I would make is that in addition to including LDS Family Services, I would also include a link recommending competent psychologists in various states. Maybe Harmony or Truth Dancer would have that type of information handy. I'll look for a link myself when I'm feeling better.

The reason I suggest this is that if you're dealing with former members of the Church, some of them may not be too keen on LDS Family Services. It is a good organization, but I have also read accounts on RfM of people having had problems with them, which was part of the reason for the sourness with the Church. Just a thought. :)


That is an excellent thought. I will start researching it as well.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:05 pm 
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Hey there, Wade---I had some revision advice.

wenglund wrote:
moksha wrote:
So Wade, do you have a preliminary plan for creating this listening post? How about a mission statement?


Hi Moksha,

Rather than creating a mission statement, I though I would craft a brief description of what the site is about, and include it as a part of the home page header (just under the site name). Here is what I have thought of so far:

"A self-help discussion board for LDS and former members to internally heal, repair and improve relationships, and become their best selves."

What do you think?


I think that's an inaccurate description of what you're trying to do. It should say something more like, "A discussion board to get "recovering" Mormons to shut up and quit whining, and to admit that the Church is always right, only the members are wrong."

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Besides the Guiding Principles and the Step-by-Step Process that I posted earlier in the thread, I also intend to include a notice in the header that will go something like:

"Notice: If you are suicidal, please call the Suicide HOTLINE. And, if your personal and relationship issues are significant enough to require a licenced professional, please contact LDS Family Services.

Additionally, I hope to include pages that explain Cognitive Behavior Therapy and Choice Theory and how each can be used in self-help ways. Also, as previously mentioned, I intend to have a resource page that the participants may be involved inp compiling and providing reviews and endorsments.


My offer to volunteer my services still stands.

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If things go as hoped, I will at some point include an Events Page (get togethers, conventions, etc.) as well as a Testimonial Page (for people to post their successes).

Can you or anyone else think what else may be useful?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Not at the moment.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:08 pm 
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What do you think of these?: Cognitive Behavioral Therapist Search, Find A Therapist, National Therapy/Counseling Referral Services

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:43 pm 
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Mister Scratch wrote:
Hey there, Wade---I had some revision advice.

wenglund wrote:
moksha wrote:
So Wade, do you have a preliminary plan for creating this listening post? How about a mission statement?


Hi Moksha,

Rather than creating a mission statement, I though I would craft a brief description of what the site is about, and include it as a part of the home page header (just under the site name). Here is what I have thought of so far:

"A self-help discussion board for LDS and former members to internally heal, repair and improve relationships, and become their best selves."

What do you think?


I think that's an inaccurate description of what you're trying to do. It should say something more like, "A discussion board to get "recovering" Mormons to shut up and quit whining, and to admit that the Church is always right, only the members are wrong....


Hi Scratch,

I recognize that this is really about you desparately needing some attention, and your willingness to go to whatever lenghts in order to get it. So, please know that you have been noticed by me and that you are loved. Please also know that there are productive ways of meeting your human need for mutual love, value, and respect, which I hope to make available on my proposed site.

In the interim, though, perhaps you and Plutarch can help each other feel wanted and needed by interacting with each other. And, if need be, I am fine with the two of you getting together on the common ground of thinking me an "idiot" (perhaps you could even start a thread to that effect).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:54 pm 
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Liz, GIMR and Runtu, perhaps you have contracted one of those nasty viruses from the internet. Eat plenty of chocolate. That always helps.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:55 pm 
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Hi Scratch,

I recognize that this is really about you desparately needing some attention, and your willingness to go to whatever lenghts in order to get it. So, please know that you have been noticed by me and that you are loved. Please also know that there are productive ways of meeting your human need for mutual love, value, and respect, which I hope to make available on my proposed site.

In the interim, though, perhaps you and Plutarch can help each other feel wanted and needed by interacting with each other. And, if need be, I am fine with the two of you getting together on the common ground of thinking me an "idiot" (perhaps you could even start a thread to that effect).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-



Wade, the above is exactly what people are talking about with regards to feeling a bit queasy about your idea.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:09 pm 
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wenglund wrote:
GIMR wrote:
One danger point, however. DO NOT set time periods on people's healing. I say this, because some people heal faster and some slower than others, and for those who don't see the "results" in the time period set, that may have disasterous consequences. I think guarantees past personal peace of mind are too much. You see, we live in a world where the only control we have is over what WE do. That must be emphasized.


I hear what you are saying. However, I think it important to understand that the time periods are not intended to be gaurantees, but rather reasonable GOALS that are set by the individual for themself (with some assistance from the facilitator). This is actually standard practice among Cognitive Behavioral Therapists. The rationale in doing it is at least two fold: 1) it is hope-inducing (it lets the participant know that there is an end to the tunnel, and that the end is not way off in some unforeseeable future), and 2) it gives them a target to shoot for.

It may surprise you how quickly people's lives and relationship can improve given the right interventions--this is particularly true for the kinds of low-level personal and relationship issue the site will be addressing.

However, I think it wise to post notice with step 5 that the time-frame is not a gaurantee, but a goal to strive towards; that the acheivement of the goal is dependant upon personal effort; that failure to achieve the goal is okay; and that revising the goal is also okay.

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It'll take me some time, but if you like I can compile the list of stuff I have worked with.


That would be greatly appreciated. And, if it is of any help, you don't need to compile an exhaustive list, just some of the more helpful items.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Hey Wade,

I still feel a bit iffy about the time period thing, but if you are willing to place time periods on certain goals like, for instance, having a time set apart each week for an old hobby I enjoy, or getting up the courage to have a talk with my spouse, then these things I can understand. I guess I don't understand what you are putting a time constraint on exactly.

My situation took a long time. I suffered with depression for 20 years. My situation is called dysthymia, a long, mild depression which can turn into major depression at intervals. There was never a point for me personally where I thought I would be in a certain place guaranteed by a certain time. I have been disappointed too many times for that.

Each new year and each birthday, I take stock of my life. And there are a few things that haven't changed. For a long time I chose to be upset about those things instead of looking at the goals I had met. There is one last thing I'm hoping to do on the major change front, and that is gain the financial independence to move out of my mom's house. I've been trying for years, and each time I moved in the past it was not successful.

If I had used a time guarantee on this situation before, I would have been elated when I did move (which I did three times), devestated when I had to move back (which I was each time, especially when my father died). Now, I don't focus on time constraints. It'll happen. My goal is my own place by my next birthday, about six months away. I have plans in place, steps I'm taking. But if all else fails, I have the money to get a roomate. Good enough.

I'll compile my list of stuff this weekend. Mind you, some of this is kind of unorthodox (I once took a look at some "angel affirmation cards" *grin*), but who knows what will work for whom.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:41 pm 
Master Mahan

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wenglund wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:
Hey there, Wade---I had some revision advice.

wenglund wrote:
moksha wrote:
So Wade, do you have a preliminary plan for creating this listening post? How about a mission statement?


Hi Moksha,

Rather than creating a mission statement, I though I would craft a brief description of what the site is about, and include it as a part of the home page header (just under the site name). Here is what I have thought of so far:

"A self-help discussion board for LDS and former members to internally heal, repair and improve relationships, and become their best selves."

What do you think?


I think that's an inaccurate description of what you're trying to do. It should say something more like, "A discussion board to get "recovering" Mormons to shut up and quit whining, and to admit that the Church is always right, only the members are wrong....


Hi Scratch,

I recognize that this is really about you desparately needing some attention, and your willingness to go to whatever lenghts in order to get it.


No, that's not it, Wade. I really, truly just think that you need to be totally frank about what your website is up to. How, for example, to you propose to "internally heal, repair" loyal, TBM LDS? You don't, do you? See, what I think is that you think TBMs can do no wrong. This really has nothing to do with TBMs, or the Church. This is really your own personal battering ram with which to attack disaffected members, and ex-mos.

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So, please know that you have been noticed by me and that you are loved. Please also know that there are productive ways of meeting your human need for mutual love, value, and respect, which I hope to make available on my proposed site.


As much as I enjoy being condescended to by you, my darling Wade, I sincerely doubt that "mutual love, value, and respect" will be any part of your new site.

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In the interim, though, perhaps you and Plutarch can help each other feel wanted and needed by interacting with each other. And, if need be, I am fine with the two of you getting together on the common ground of thinking me an "idiot" (perhaps you could even start a thread to that effect).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Unlike you, I don't start threads personally attacking other MormonDiscussions.com posters.

Anyways, here's a key question I think you should address before you go any further: What is wrong with TBMs, and what problems of theirs do you aim to correct?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:42 pm 
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Hey, I've been sick, too. This gives a whole new meaning to "computer virus".

(or did someone already make that joke and I was too lazy to read it?)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:56 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Liz, GIMR and Runtu, perhaps you have contracted one of those nasty viruses from the internet. Eat plenty of chocolate. That always helps.


LOL, that reminds me of when my mom first got on the internet, she opened email from everyone, not understanding the danger of viruses. At the time I had a cushy IT job, and she thought I was messing with the computer. The thing blue screened every time we turned it on. We finally had to put it down, and she still thinks I'm the reason it died. Strange, my laptop works fine...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:59 pm 
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beastie wrote:
Hey, I've been sick, too. This gives a whole new meaning to "computer virus".

(or did someone already make that joke and I was too lazy to read it?)


LOL, we're still hacking out the conspiracy theories over here...

You feeling better? I'm praying for complete and robust health by monday. Because I can't be feeling like this and listening to old people complain that we didn't collect their trash on trash day. I work as a dispatcher for my city's trash guys. These people actually CALL IN if you miss their trash collection. Which isn't really possible if you put it out on time and correctly.

Question guys: do they have a number you can call in your city if the trash guys miss your house?

Did you know that it's a hobby for some elderly folk to run after the trash truck in the mornings? I've heard stories from the athletes themselves...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:56 pm 
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GIMR wrote:
Quote:
Hi Scratch,

I recognize that this is really about you desparately needing some attention, and your willingness to go to whatever lenghts in order to get it. So, please know that you have been noticed by me and that you are loved. Please also know that there are productive ways of meeting your human need for mutual love, value, and respect, which I hope to make available on my proposed site.

In the interim, though, perhaps you and Plutarch can help each other feel wanted and needed by interacting with each other. And, if need be, I am fine with the two of you getting together on the common ground of thinking me an "idiot" (perhaps you could even start a thread to that effect). Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Wade, the above is exactly what people are talking about with regards to feeling a bit queasy about your idea.


If people are going to be made queasy about my proposed board by the rather mild way in which I addressed Scratch's "acting out" on this thread, then perhaps they aren't ready for the board I proposed. And, I am fine with that. I am creating a service that I believe has the potential of greatly benefiting people, but if some don't view it that way, and they are apprehensive or disinclined to participate, then that is their choice.

Over the last several days I have considered the distinct possibility that very few, if any, RFMers or even some of the former and unbelieving saints here, will be inclined enough to participate. I think the lack of trust in me is only part of the issue (very minor in my opinion). But, I think even more so, they are not ready for my Guiding Principles. I think the payoff they have been getting from externalizing their issues (blame game, victimology, teeth-nashing, etc.) may be far too high for them to want to look inward. As odd as it may seem, they prefer the heated battles, vindictiveness, mud-slinging, fragmenting of families, denegrating foes, etc., over mutual love, value, respect, peace, and joy--particularly if the latter means their having to look and change inward. Like Dr. Laura has said, some people are intent on carrying around their bags of poop, and may even stick their hands in it and stur it up from time to time. Sure, the poop stinks and is off-putting to others. But it is their somewhat warm and familiar poop. It is what they know and are used to, and for that reason they tend not to want to get rid of it.

Maybe, though, there are some people out there who are hurting and grieving, who may yearn to be closer to their families, who wish to have a helping hand in rise up from the dust of pain and misery, who only want what is best for all, and who desire functional ways to love and be loved, to value and be valued, and to respect and be respected, enough so that they won't find the least pretense to distrust, and are willing to do what ever they need to to achieve those more lofty and mutually productive goals. If so, I will be pleased to be of service to them at my proposed web site.

In otherwords, I am cautiously optimistic.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:14 pm 
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wenglund wrote:
GIMR wrote:
Quote:
Hi Scratch,

I recognize that this is really about you desparately needing some attention, and your willingness to go to whatever lenghts in order to get it. So, please know that you have been noticed by me and that you are loved. Please also know that there are productive ways of meeting your human need for mutual love, value, and respect, which I hope to make available on my proposed site.

In the interim, though, perhaps you and Plutarch can help each other feel wanted and needed by interacting with each other. And, if need be, I am fine with the two of you getting together on the common ground of thinking me an "idiot" (perhaps you could even start a thread to that effect). Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Wade, the above is exactly what people are talking about with regards to feeling a bit queasy about your idea.


If people are going to be made queasy about my proposed board by the rather mild way in which I addressed Scratch's "acting out" on this thread, then perhaps they aren't ready for the board I proposed. And, I am fine with that. I am creating a service that I believe has the potential of greatly benefiting people, but if some don't view it that way, and they are apprehensive or disinclined to participate, then that is their choice.

Over the last several days I have considered the distinct possibility that very few, if any, RFMers or even some of the former and unbelieving saints here, will be inclined enough to participate. I think the lack of trust in me is only part of the issue (very minor in my opinion).


Actually, I think this is probably the major issue. Continue reading to find out why.

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But, I think even more so, they are not ready for my Guiding Principles. I think the payoff they have been getting from externalizing their issues (blame game, victimology, teeth-nashing, etc.)


This sort of labeling isn't exactly shining example of "mutual love, value, respect, peace, and joy", Wade. Do you not see the irony of your approach here? Once again, you are proving me right: your Mormon Shrink messageboard is really just about you, and making you feel better, so your feelings about your "most precious and dear" Church don't get hurt anymore.

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may be far too high for them to want to look inward. As odd as it may seem, they prefer the heated battles, vindictiveness, mud-slinging, fragmenting of families, denegrating foes, etc., over mutual love, value, respect, peace, and joy--particularly if the latter means their having to look and change inward. Like Dr. Laura has said, some people are intent on carrying around their bags of poop, and may even stick their hands in it and stur it up from time to time. Sure, the poop stinks and is off-putting to others. But it is their somewhat warm and familiar poop. It is what they know and are used to, and for that reason they tend not to want to get rid of it.


This is a classic. And what would your "bag of poop" be, Wade?

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Maybe, though, there are some people out there who are hurting and grieving, who may yearn to be closer to their families, who wish to have a helping hand in rise up from the dust of pain and misery, who only want what is best for all, and who desire functional ways to love and be loved, to value and be valued, and to respect and be respected, enough so that they won't find the least pretense to distrust, and are willing to do what ever they need to to achieve those more lofty and mutually productive goals. If so, I will be pleased to be of service to them at my proposed web site.


Look, Wade: I just think you should be very careful with all of this. You wouldn't want to be deceptive about what your site claims to be or do.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:21 pm 
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Just out of curiosity, is there any unbeliever or former member participating here who genuinely wishes to heal and/or repair relations with believing members, and who is willing to abide my Guiding Principles?

I thought I would present the offer first to my board buddiers here prior to setting up my proposed board.

Besides, I think it would be good practice, and may even give cause to hope for my intended enterprise.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:04 pm 
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wenglund wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is there any unbeliever or former member participating here who genuinely wishes to heal and/or repair relations with believing members, and who is willing to abide my Guiding Principles?

I thought I would present the offer first to my board buddiers here prior to setting up my proposed board.

Besides, I think it would be good practice, and may even give cause to hope for my intended enterprise.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Count me out. My relationships are okay. I don't have any problem with your Guiding Principles, as far as they go, though. You didn't respond when I suggested before that you concentrate on believing Mormons who genuinely wish to heal and/or repair relations with unbelieving members, and as I said before, many Mormons would benefit by your Guiding Principles. That would be better practice for you, in that if you gained some credibility with your fellow believers you might gain some credibility with us.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:35 pm 
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Lucretia MacEvil wrote:
Count me out. My relationships are okay. I don't have any problem with your Guiding Principles, as far as they go, though. You didn't respond when I suggested before that you concentrate on believing Mormons who genuinely wish to heal and/or repair relations with unbelieving members, and as I said before, many Mormons would benefit by your Guiding Principles. That would be better practice for you, in that if you gained some credibility with your fellow believers you might gain some credibility with us.


I apologize for not responding to your suggestion. I had read it, thought about it, and formulated a reply, but apparently neglected to post it.

While I think both sides would benefit from the interventions, the reason that I chose to concentrate on former members and unbelieving members, is because, unlike believing members, they currently, and for some time now, have web sites devoted to the challenges faced by loss of faith (none of the sites, in my view, take a functional and healthy approach to meeting the challenges, though). And, over the years that I have been discussing Mormonism on the internet I have encountered many who have faced, or were facing, those challenges. Whereas, on the otherhand, I don't recall but maybe one or two instances of where believing saints have, in cyberspace, raised issue with how to deal with the challenge of family and friends losing faith. So, it is simply a matter of pragmatism in concentrating on an existing audience rather than attempting to create a new one. I am merely offering an alternitive to meet the more evident and accessible, current need.

Besides, I had hoped to gain access to believers and their challenges through addressing the challenges of former members--the reverse from what you suggested.

As intimated previously, however, I doubt that there are many former member (angry or grieving or otherwise) who would be open to my interventions (you being a case in point), regardless if someone else that they may trust was to implement them. I suspect the same may be true, to a lesser degree, of believers. So, it is not as though I am expecting a great rush anytime soon from either side. I just thought I would toss out the offer just in case.

Thanks for letting me know, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:51 pm 
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wenglund wrote:
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:
Count me out. My relationships are okay. I don't have any problem with your Guiding Principles, as far as they go, though. You didn't respond when I suggested before that you concentrate on believing Mormons who genuinely wish to heal and/or repair relations with unbelieving members, and as I said before, many Mormons would benefit by your Guiding Principles. That would be better practice for you, in that if you gained some credibility with your fellow believers you might gain some credibility with us.


I apologize for not responding to your suggestion. I had read it, thought about it, and formulated a reply, but apparently neglected to post it.

While I think both sides would benefit from the interventions, the reason that I chose to concentrate on former members and unbelieving members, is because, unlike believing members, they currently, and for some time now, have web sites devoted to the challenges faced by loss of faith (none of the sites, in my view, take a functional and healthy approach to meeting the challenges, though). And, over the years that I have been discussing Mormonism on the internet I have encountered many who have faced, or were facing, those challenges. Whereas, on the otherhand, I don't recall but maybe one or two instances of where believing saints have, in cyberspace, raised issue with how to deal with the challenge of family and friends losing faith. So, it is simply a matter of pragmatism in concentrating on an existing audience rather than attempting to create a new one. I am merely offering an alternitive to meet the more evident and accessible, current need.

Besides, I had hoped to gain access to believers and their challenges through addressing the challenges of former members--the reverse from what you suggested.

As intimated previously, however, I doubt that there are many former member (angry or grieving or otherwise) who would be open to my interventions (you being a case in point), regardless if someone else that they may trust was to implement them. I suspect the same may be true, to a lesser degree, of believers. So, it is not as though I am expecting a great rush anytime soon from either side. I just thought I would toss out the offer just in case.

Thanks for letting me know, -Wade Englund-


As long as you see the problem coming from only one side, your idea is doomed to failure. But then, you already know that.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:16 pm 
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wenglund wrote:
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:
Count me out. My relationships are okay. I don't have any problem with your Guiding Principles, as far as they go, though. You didn't respond when I suggested before that you concentrate on believing Mormons who genuinely wish to heal and/or repair relations with unbelieving members, and as I said before, many Mormons would benefit by your Guiding Principles. That would be better practice for you, in that if you gained some credibility with your fellow believers you might gain some credibility with us.


I apologize for not responding to your suggestion. I had read it, thought about it, and formulated a reply, but apparently neglected to post it.

While I think both sides would benefit from the interventions, the reason that I chose to concentrate on former members and unbelieving members, is because, unlike believing members, they currently, and for some time now, have web sites devoted to the challenges faced by loss of faith (none of the sites, in my view, take a functional and healthy approach to meeting the challenges, though). And, over the years that I have been discussing Mormonism on the internet I have encountered many who have faced, or were facing, those challenges. Whereas, on the otherhand, I don't recall but maybe one or two instances of where believing saints have, in cyberspace, raised issue with how to deal with the challenge of family and friends losing faith. So, it is simply a matter of pragmatism in concentrating on an existing audience rather than attempting to create a new one. I am merely offering an alternitive to meet the more evident and accessible, current need.

Besides, I had hoped to gain access to believers and their challenges through addressing the challenges of former members--the reverse from what you suggested.

As intimated previously, however, I doubt that there are many former member (angry or grieving or otherwise) who would be open to my interventions (you being a case in point), regardless if someone else that they may trust was to implement them. I suspect the same may be true, to a lesser degree, of believers. So, it is not as though I am expecting a great rush anytime soon from either side. I just thought I would toss out the offer just in case.

Thanks for letting me know, -Wade Englund-


Sure, ex-mormons have sites where they gripe and carry on, but have you ever once seen one of them say, "oh, gee, if only a TBM would offer some counseling to us, that's what we really need?" I honestly can't imagine how you get the idea that an ex-Mormon would choose your particular services over the many available if he did in fact require counseling. If I were you, though, I wouldn't attach the meaning to this refusal that you seem to be attaching, i.e., another failure of ex-mormons to know what's good for them.

On the other hand, believing Mormons are supported by what they read and hear in church every week to the effect that leaving the church is wrong and so ex-mormons are wrong. They are much less likely to recognize their own failure to deal with their emotions on the subject because they believe that they are, by default, in the right, but if you were on my side of the fence you'd see how angry and defensive they are and your Guiding Principles, elementary as they are, might help them get onto a higher path, at least as a beginning. Mormonism is quite bereft of good sound emotional understanding and Mormons need it. If you think you have something to offer in that regard, offer it to your fellow TBMs. As a rule, I believe that ex-Mormons have broadened their horizons to an extent where they don't so much need your assistance because 1) it is highly suspect of having an agenda and 2) ex-mormons, at least those who have had enough time to process, aren't in the naïve state they were as Mormons and wouldn't likely have much to learn from you.

I really tried to make that sound a little less blunt, but don't really know how.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:22 pm 
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Another note. I re-reviewed your Guiding Principles and have this comment, as a psychiatrist wanna-be myself: The basis for for implementing those principles would seem to me to be a sound understanding of personal emotions in order to make the wisest choices regarding them.

If you don't mind, humor me by defining the following (and I know you really love defining so this should be fun for you):

Anger
Boredom
Jealousy
Guilt


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