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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:42 am 
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antishock8 wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
antishock8 wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
GoodK wrote:
TAK wrote:
I thought it was known that FARMS offers stipends for the work they produce..
I think this has been going on for at least a few years..

http://farms.BYU.edu/sumsem.html


Wow... Good find TAK!


This is old news


No. It's not. This is new news to at least two posters on this board, myself included. The FACT that some apologists get paid now establishes this notion concretely. Now. The questions of which mopologists, how much they get paid, and for what apologia remain to be answered in light of claims by some well-known mopologists that they don't get paid for their efforts.

This is pretty big in light of the link above, and GoodK's assertions.


Yes it is
Old news

Can't help it if you are behind the times.


Are you saying that it's old news that mopologists get paid to do apologia on behalf of the Mormon church?


What Jason is saying is its old news because this is not the first year FARMS has done this. I think it was less in years past than the $36000 total they are offering ($3k each) to 12 academics this year for apologetic work. I would assume most are going to be young educators perhaps CES instructors, who would jump at the chance to come back to YBU for 6 weeks. Since its summer and most are off and the campus less full, I would bet housing and meals are going to be included.

To say FARMS does not pay for content is a lie... their own website confirms it. If they do it here its not s stretch they do it for other work as well. Since they hide the finances proving or disproving is a draw.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:53 am 
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William Schryver wrote:
Chap:

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Although I find DCP an uncongenial phenomenon - since he is the living counter-example to my cherished belief that a university education tends to produce people with a greater than average aptitude for the unfettered search for truth ...

That's right, Chap. The more educated the person, the less likely s/he is to fall for all that Mormon crap.

Unfortunately for your "cherished belief," it encounters exceptions everywhere, doesn't it? Not hardly just DCP, is it? Why, there are highly educated people all over the place who still somehow find Mormonism believable. How could that be? Maybe they didn't get the right kind of education, huh? Maybe you could set them straight.


"All over the place?" You must surely mean in certain geographical locations in North America. Having travelled throughout much of the world, I can assure you that precious few educated people find Mormonism believable. In absolute numbers, perhaps a few million, but in relative terms, a puny, insignificant, utterly trivial share of humanity finds Momonism believable. You are a member of a teeny, tiny, almost indiscernible group of highly educated people who have bought into the con.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:02 pm 
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I suppose it depends on what it means to be paid for apologetic work.

I would guess that, for example, Prof. P spends 30% or more of his productive time on apologetics stuff. Prof. P is paid by BYU, which is fully aware of that he devotes X share of his productive time to apologetics work.

Whether he is directly paid for apologetic work, he appears to be paid at least indirectly for it.

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God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:02 pm 
My friend at BYU said DCP doesn't teach any classes and isn't listed on the course schedule at all... so if he gets a paycheck from BYU, what is it for?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:10 pm 
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William Schryver wrote:
Here Scratchy and GoodK and a small group of intimate friends were pleasantly engaged in another of the now-almost-legendary Shadyville Circle Jerks, and you open the door and turn on the lights.


Will, have you found out what that particular compound word means yet?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:12 pm 
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Mr. Schryver,

Are you stating that mopologists don't earn "one cent" from their apologetic work? What's your position on this issue?

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Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left


Last edited by antishock8 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:20 pm 
Jason Bourne wrote:
GoodK wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
In other words the claim that Peterson and other LDS apologists are PAID to be apologist's seems to be a hollow claim with no evidence to back it up. Scratch must really be disappointed. Such excitement over NADA!


Yes my friend, I suppose we will just have to give the big guy the benefit of the doubt until he owns up to things or we can get a copy of his Income Tax filing.



Hey Goodk...talk is cheap. You made a claim...that you know apologists are paid. Then what do we see? Nothing. Personally I could care less if they are paid. I hope they are in fact. Time is worth something. But here you got old Scratch so excited he is almost having an orgasm. And what evidnce do we see?

None.

You are certain the DCP is paid, Midgely probably is and Sorenson might be? Come on! Cheap rumor monging and innuendo is all you have provided.


Wow Jason. Bad day?

I never said I could prove that they get paid, I know that they do get compensated from personal experience, I don't really care if you believe me or not, nor do I think it is bad thing. I hope they get paid, and get paid well for it.

If you read the thread where this originated from - you will see that I was unaware that FARMS apologists implied otherwise.

Why not go ask DCP yourself if he has honestly never been compensated for any book or review he has published for FARMS.

Report back with your findings. (I'm sure you won't be surprised)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:22 pm 
Dr. Shades wrote:
William Schryver wrote:
Here Scratchy and GoodK and a small group of intimate friends were pleasantly engaged in another of the now-almost-legendary Shadyville Circle Jerks, and you open the door and turn on the lights.


Will, have you found out what that particular compound word means yet?


Let's not tax poor William too much. After all, he's probably tired from researching the term, "circle jerks".

;)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:26 pm 
liz3564 wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
William Schryver wrote:
Here Scratchy and GoodK and a small group of intimate friends were pleasantly engaged in another of the now-almost-legendary Shadyville Circle Jerks, and you open the door and turn on the lights.


Will, have you found out what that particular compound word means yet?


Let's not tax poor William too much. After all, he's probably tired from researching the term, "circle jerks".

;)


I'd just like to say that I used the term "circle jerk" before him.

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... sc&start=0

Just want the world to know I'm being plagiarized!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:31 pm 
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liz3564 wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
William Schryver wrote:
Here Scratchy and GoodK and a small group of intimate friends were pleasantly engaged in another of the now-almost-legendary Shadyville Circle Jerks, and you open the door and turn on the lights.


Will, have you found out what that particular compound word means yet?


Let's not tax poor William too much. After all, he's probably tired from researching the term, "circle jerks".

;)


I find the term "circle jerk" to be highly offensive for its sexism. Women cannot circle jerk. If we are going to insult people, we should not exclude women by virtue of the fact tha they don't have a penis.

Might I suggest that in its place we substitute the gender neutral term "group masturbation?"

_________________
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:37 pm 
Guy wrote:
I find the term "circle jerk" to be highly offensive for its sexism. Women cannot circle jerk. If we are going to insult people, we should not exclude women by virtue of the fact tha they don't have a penis.

Might I suggest that in its place we substitute the gender neutral term "group masturbation?"


*Doing my best to keep a straight face and not let the imagery in my head completely run amok*

Your request is duly noted.

;)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:46 pm 
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Why not go ask DCP yourself if he has honestly never been compensated for any book or review he has published for FARMS.


Why would I do that and why would he answer me?

Quote:
Report back with your findings. (I'm sure you won't be surprised)



It is not I who said they get paid. It was you. Thus the burden of this claim is in your camp.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:46 pm 
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GoodK:

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My friend at BYU said DCP doesn't teach any classes and isn't listed on the course schedule at all... so if he gets a paycheck from BYU, what is it for?

Certainly part of it is for this: http://meti.BYU.edu/

Shades:

Quote:
Will, have you found out what that particular compound word means yet?

Enough to have noticed that, when one is going strong here in Shadyville, Lizzie always seems to find herself right in the middle of it.

I’m sure you are more the kind to lurk in the shadows, consumed by risk-aversion, willing to gratify your urges in a purely voyeuristic fashion.


OK, carry on . . .

(Turns off light switch, closes door, and leaves them again to their debauchments.)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:50 pm 
William Schryver wrote:
GoodK:

Quote:
My friend at BYU said DCP doesn't teach any classes and isn't listed on the course schedule at all... so if he gets a paycheck from BYU, what is it for?

Certainly part of it is for this: http://meti.BYU.edu/


I know... oddly enough he has time to publish books, work on the FARMS review - apologetics.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:51 pm 
Will wrote:
Enough to have noticed that, when one is going strong here in Shadyville, Lizzie always seems to find herself right in the middle of it.


What's the matter, Willy? Can you not take it as well as you can dish it out?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:52 pm 
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William Schryver wrote:
I’m sure you are more the kind to lurk in the shadows, consumed by risk-aversion, willing to gratify your urges in a purely voyeuristic fashion.


How the Hell did you find out?

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--Analytics, 09-11-2019


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:55 pm 
Jason Bourne wrote:
Quote:
Why not go ask DCP yourself if he has honestly never been compensated for any book or review he has published for FARMS.


Why would I do that and why would he answer me?

Because I don't post over there. You do, don't you?

It is not I who said they get paid. It was you. Thus the burden of this claim is in your camp.


I can't prove it Jason. I never said I could. I also probably couldn't prove to you how much money my dad makes, or even prove to you how much money my girlfriend makes... I say I know he gets paid because of what I know from personal experience and because logically, it doesn't make sense for them not to get paid - whether you want to call it a stipend, travel expense, or whatever...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:01 pm 
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liz3564 wrote:
Will wrote:
Enough to have noticed that, when one is going strong here in Shadyville, Lizzie always seems to find herself right in the middle of it.


What's the matter, Willy? Can you not take it as well as you can dish it out?

I'm quite certain that I can't take it as well as you can. I'm sure you've got most of us bested in that department.

Well, everyone except Scratch, that is.

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... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:03 pm 
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GoodK wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
Quote:
Why not go ask DCP yourself if he has honestly never been compensated for any book or review he has published for FARMS.


Why would I do that and why would he answer me?

Because I don't post over there. You do, don't you?

It is not I who said they get paid. It was you. Thus the burden of this claim is in your camp.


I can't prove it Jason. I never said I could. I also probably couldn't prove to you how much money my dad makes, or even prove to you how much money my girlfriend makes... I say I know he gets paid because of what I know from personal experience and because logically, it doesn't make sense for them not to get paid - whether you want to call it a stipend, travel expense, or whatever...


Personal experience: legitimate to post a claim based on that. And interesting.

Logical deduction: legitimate to post a claim based on that. But not very interesting in itself, since the payment or otherwise of LDS apologists is not something we can settle by pure reason.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:08 pm 
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Mr. Schryver,

Are you stating that mopologists don't earn "one cent" from their apologetic work? What's your position on this issue?

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Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:41 pm 
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rcrocket wrote:
I have written for FARMS. I wasn't paid anything.


But, you wrote only one article. Perhaps arrangements are different for those higher up on the totem pole? by the way: were you offered remuneration in any way? I.e., in the form of contributor copies, or anything of that nature?

Quote:
I have arranged for speaking engagement for FARMS directors who are also employed by BYU. The flight expense came out of my pocket. I arranged to pick them up at the airport. Accommodations were on their own nickel (they always stayed with friends or family). They received no payment from me.


And were these speakers engaged in Mopologetics?

Quote:
Similarly, in my professional capacity I have arranged for speakers from universities to speak to professional or business groups. They are salaried at their institutions but don't receive payment from us for seminar participation. The groups I work with, however, do arrange for their hotel room, food and a rental car.


Again, were these speakers engaged in an apologetic capacity?

Quote:
Similarly, I have been a panelist and a presenter at various business groups. I am not paid for what I publish there; I don't get paid for panel participation. My hotel room and travel are comp'd. I have never obtained business as the result of any seminar of which I was a panelist, although one of my motivations for doing this is to attract business.


And no doubt the actions of DCP & et. al. serve a similar "drumming up business" function.

Quote:
I think what the FARMS presenters do is pretty formulaic in academia.


There is even less evidence for this than what GoodK has been claiming. First, the notion that FARMS Review uses normative peer review was exploded. Now it seems that that organization's "business practices" are less than typical as well.


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