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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:35 am 
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It seems they had sufficient time to halt distribution of the hard copy manuals (holding is mine).
Quote:
Prior to his prepared remarks, Elder Stevenson expressed sorrow for an outdated commentary on race that appeared in a recent church study manual.

“It was mistakenly included in the printed version of the manual, which had been prepared for print nearly two years ago,” Elder Stevenson said, as first reported by Deseret News reporter Tad Walch. “When it was brought to the attention of church leaders late last year, they directed that it be immediately removed in our annual online manual, which is used by the great majority of our members. We have also directed that any future printed manuals will reflect this change.

“We’re asking our members to disregard the paragraph in the printed manual. Now I’m deeply saddened and hurt by this error and for any pain that it may have caused our members and for others.”

https://www.ksl.com/article/46706963/we ... lake-naacp

They knew about it late last year, but still went ahead with the distribution, and didn’t issue any announcement of the offending passage and the request that members disregard it until after the bad publicity?

Quote:
Elder Stevenson then reiterated the church’s position on race, racism and race relations.

“We do condemn all racism, past and present, in any form, and we disavow any theory advanced that black or dark skin is a sign of a curse,” he said.
If you meant that, you’d remove those things you disavow from the Book Of Mormon.

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:49 am 
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Dr Moore wrote:
I wonder what would constitute a recallable offense in printed church manuals.

What if an offensive image had been surreptitiously embedded in one of the picture frames? Would the church recall for that reason?
What if a sneaky writer embedded a nasty vertical text message on the left hand margin, like Schwarzenegger did as governor? Would the church recall for that reason?

Then why not for an offensive piece of disavowed racial doctrine, which has the potential to do far more harm than either of the above.


It speaks volumes to me that the Church would not recall and reprint the manual and take the financial hit. We know they have mountains of money. They would use that money to prop up failing businesses, but they would not show their commitment to fighting racism in their own ranks?

By their fruits, ye shall know them.

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:08 am 
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https://www.ksl.com/article/46706963/we ... lake-naacp

Tl;dr - Elder Stevenson to Utah NAACP on Martin Luther King Day - Whoops. Our bad. Updated it online and told our peeps to ignore it.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:43 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:

It speaks volumes to me that the Church would not recall and reprint the manual and take the financial hit. We know they have mountains of money. They would use that money to prop up failing businesses, but they would not show their commitment to fighting racism in their own ranks?

By their fruits, ye shall know them.


Well what do you expect? The Church is too cheap to hire janitors to clean the toilets. It relies on volunteers to clean the chapel. The Church can't afford to maintain buildings in addition to saving $100 billion for Jesus's coming back party.

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:47 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
https://www.ksl.com/article/46706963/we-are-all-part-of-the-same-divine-family-elder-stevenson-tells-salt-lake-naacp

Tl;dr - Elder Stevenson to Utah NAACP on Martin Luther King Day - Whoops. Our bad. Updated it online and told our peeps to ignore it.

- Doc


So noted. I think that is pretty weak, but I know that there are much bigger fish to fry in the world.

Here's the thing: how someone reacts to problems like this sends a message. This was an opportunity to go far in the other direction to show dramatically that such things will not represent the Church's position going forward. They fumbled this opportunity, in my opinion.

And the excuse that this manual was written two years ago . . . . What does that mean? Is he suggesting that two years ago such language was OK in Mormon circles?

I mean, if he had said the manual had been put together forty years ago, that would be one thing (it would not make much sense, admittedly). But two years ago? Talk about tone deaf.

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:52 am 
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Shulem wrote:
Well what do you expect? The Church is too cheap to hire janitors to clean the toilets. It relies on volunteers to clean the chapel. The Church can't afford to maintain buildings in addition to saving $100 billion for Jesus's coming back party.


Their lack of commitment to the very people Jesus commanded them to care for is evident in so many ways. I don't see how this organization well reflects the spirit of the Savior whose name it bears. The global catastrophe described in scripture is upon us, and it feels like the leadership of the LDS Church is whistling as it walks past the graveyard. I do not see strong leadership in the face of oppression, poverty, illness, and cataclysm. I hear a deafening silence from the COB.

The world is dying, guys. What are you going to do to save it?

So far, it seems like effectively nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:26 am 
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Elder Stevenson- please go to the back of the conference room and face the wall. your explanation is even being questioned by several widows in the Parowan ward. And get your black out redaction pen out and start lining out the curse material- only 2,000,000 more copies to go!

k


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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:45 am 
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kairos wrote:
Elder Stevenson- please go to the back of the conference room and face the wall. your explanation is even being questioned by several widows in the Parowan ward. And get your black out redaction pen out and start lining out the curse material- only 2,000,000 more copies to go!

k


We will never stop quoting the awful racist statements made by past church leaders. It goes to show that what they said back then was uninspired much like what they say today is uninspired.

MormonThink Blacks and the Priesthood

MormonThink Blacks and Race in the LDS Church

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:05 pm 
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by the way is the MADD board offline at the moment?


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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:30 pm 
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So if that section of the Book of Mormon in question is meant to be interpreted as metaphorical, perhaps they could just go ahead and point out all the other bits of the Book of Mormon that are not meant to be literal. I would gladly donate a red marker.

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:47 pm 
God
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If that part of the Book of Mormon is metaphorical or applies only to some stylistic clothing choices, how is that supposed to make it so that they were not "enticing" to the Nephites? I mean if bad style choices kept people from mating, shouldn't the human race have gone extinct in the '80s? I mean, there were guys with hot pink pants who still got action back then...

The curse has to be an actual thing because we are told it will have an actual effect. I don't buy this new apologetic explanation. The obvious explanation is that the author of the Book of Mormon thought that dark skin was ugly and wrote this bigoted view into the text of the book. Mormons would be best served by admitting that scriptures can contain errors and state that this is one. They can even blame the "ancient prophet" if they want to, but continuing to defend racism is only going to cost them their most sensitive and morally upright people.

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:56 pm 
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Nephite & Lamanite!

White & delightsome vs. dark & loathsome.

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Brethren, you may now remove your loin cloths.

Lemmie, no peeking!


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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:52 pm 
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Behold WHITE & delightsome Nephites!

Image

Behold DARK & loathsome Lamanites!

Image

You can be white one minute and black the next! The Book of Mormon really is true!

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:48 pm 
God
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Kishkumen wrote:
Their lack of commitment to the very people Jesus commanded them to care for is evident in so many ways. I don't see how this organization well reflects the spirit of the Savior whose name it bears. The global catastrophe described in scripture is upon us, and it feels like the leadership of the LDS Church is whistling as it walks past the graveyard. I do not see strong leadership in the face of oppression, poverty, illness, and cataclysm. I hear a deafening silence from the COB.

The world is dying, guys. What are you going to do to save it?

So far, it seems like effectively nothing.


They probably don't see what you do. They have 100 Billion reasons to think we live in the best of times. Also, I don't think the Wall Street Journal or Fox News covers what is really happening out there.

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:06 pm 
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Exiled wrote:
They probably don't see what you do. They have 100 Billion reasons to think we live in the best of times. Also, I don't think the Wall Street Journal or Fox News covers what is really happening out there.


I have often heard that the leadership of the LDS Church is not 100% made up of Republicans. Is no Church leader concerned about these problems? Were these issues not once considered “signs of the times”? Would they all remain blind to the many indicators that some massive global change is in the offing?

Setting aside the very real mass extinction currently going on, and the very obvious changes in our weather patterns, what does it say that the Church gives such a tiny percentage of its donations to the world’s poor? I see no effective justification for not heeding the command to do unto the least among us as we would do for Christ.

My standards for what constitutes Christian behavior and identity are apparently quite different from theirs.

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:40 am 
God

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Quote:
LDS leaders are trying to explain away the racist views in their “Follow Me” manual. This manual is based on the racist Book of Mormon, which claims that the American Indians (“Lamanites”) got their skin color from the “cursing” of God.

One verse says, “... the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.” Another verse says that those who mix their seed with the Lamanites will have children who are cursed.

It’s unfortunate that the LDS leaders of today have never stated that biological evolution has caused the many skin colors of earthly inhabitants. I guess they don’t fully accept Darwin’s factual theory.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/letters/ ... t-explain/

It’s a good question. How do LDS Leaders account for black skin if they no longer subscribe to the idea that it is caused by a curse from God?

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:50 pm 
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Bill Reel and Jonathan Streeter join RFM for an in depth discussion of the latest fiasco. Going up tomorrow morning.

"Mormon Racism Revival."

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:22 pm 
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WIKIPEDIA Black people and Mormonism

Quote:
As early as 1908, a church publication stated that blacks could not receive the priesthood because their spirits were less valiant in the pre-existence. Church leaders used this explanation until 1978, when Kimball publicly refuted it; later church leaders have called the explanation a folk belief. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young reasoned that black skin was a result of the Curse of Cain or the Curse of Ham. They used these Biblical curses to justify slavery. Young believed the curse made black people ineligible to vote, marry white people, or hold the priesthood. Successive church presidents continued to use the Biblical curses to justify excluding black men from priesthood ordination and excluding black men and women from the church's temples.

Brigham Young was an evil despot void of basic enlightenment exhibited by an honorable human spirit.

The Mormon Church needs to apologize for the teachings and doctrines passed down by this evil man which were embraced by every Church President until Spencer Kimball finally caved into political pressure.

Evil Mormonism! I, Shulem, rebuke it! Brigham Young -- YOU are disgusting! Evil!

:mad:

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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:46 pm 
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MsJack wrote:
I find the hand-wringing over this kind of strange given that the Book of Mormon so prominently uses dark skin as a sign of disfavor from God.


Yes, and even the fixed up version of this in the online manual is still problematic. This isn't a study manual issue. It is a problem with core LDS scripture and 150 years of the teachings of leaders.

TSCC should just bite the bullet and purge its scriptures and racist teachings. That would be a big overhaul, but anything short of that and these types of issues will keep coming up.


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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:01 am 
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sunstoned wrote:
MsJack wrote:
I find the hand-wringing over this kind of strange given that the Book of Mormon so prominently uses dark skin as a sign of disfavor from God.


Yes, and even the fixed up version of this in the online manual is still problematic. This isn't a study manual issue. It is a problem with core LDS scripture and 150 years of the teachings of leaders.

TSCC should just bite the bullet and purge its scriptures and racist teachings. That would be a big overhaul, but anything short of that and these types of issues will keep coming up.


Wouldn't removing the problematic Book of Mormon passages from the book be tantamount to declaring the book to be fiction and thus alterable at will? I cannot find any expectation that will happen.

You are not even going to get the church to ever declare the priesthood ban to have been a mistake. It wont happen until the whole restoration and authority idea is discarded. Not happening.


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 Post subject: Re: New LDS manual teaches racism. Mistake?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:07 am 
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consiglieri wrote:
Bill Reel and Jonathan Streeter join RFM for an in depth discussion of the latest fiasco. Going up tomorrow morning.

"Mormon Racism Revival."


Burn them down with the truth.


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