Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (Salt Lake City)

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oliblish
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Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (Salt Lake City)

Post by oliblish »

Anyone been to one of these conferences, or know of anyone who has?

My TBM wife wants me to go. She already has tickets. I really don't want to spend my Saturday next week listening to excuses for why it was OK for Joseph Smith to do all of the things he did. But she is going even if I don't. That could be worse...

If I end up going, what are some good questions I could ask Brian Hales or the other speakers that would force them to acknowledge some of the unsavory details that they would otherwise avoid?

I was thinking of agreeing to go if my wife would read some things first. I have a copy of In Sacred Loneliness and maybe she could read a few chapters out of that. Are there other ideas of what I could get her to read before the conference?

I haven't been to a church meeting for close to two years. The thought of listening to 4 hours of polygamy apologetics BS is nauseating.

Here is more info on the event:

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/knowing-joseph-joseph-smith-nauvoo-plural-marriage-slc-tickets-75361679813

Date And Time
Sat, February 15, 2020
10:00 AM – 4:00 PM MST

Location
This Is The Place Heritage Park - The Garden Center
2601 Sunnyside Avenue South
Salt Lake City, Utah 84108

Tickets: $35

Purpose Of The Event

These seminars have been an ongoing and traveling event that have been held in different cities in Utah.

Each one has had different speakers and topics. All have been devoted to the teaching of the history of the early Restoration, and strengthening the faith of those who attend. The purpose has been to teach the most reliable history from the best-informed scholars, and while doing so, confronting and dealing with the tough questions and controversial moments in that history.

Trusted Sources: Anthony Sweat will talk about those sources of history that can and cannot be trusted.
History & Context: Glenn Rawson will take the discussion into the lives and stories of those who lived plural marriage or rejected it. It is not expected that this event will speak for or against plural marriage, but rather make the doctrine thereof and the historical practice and context as transparent as possible.
Revealed Doctrine: Brian and Laura Hales, world-recognized authorities on Nauvoo plural marriage, will discuss the revealed doctrine of plural marriage and the history of its implementation and practice in Nauvoo.
Transparent. Historically Accurate. Faith Building.

In keeping with presenting history in its proper context and answering troubling questions, the theme for this year’s conference in Layton is Joseph Smith and Nauvoo Plural Marriage.

Schedule:
9:00 AM - Doors Open
10 AM to 12 PM - Speakers
12-2 PM - Lunch break/Free time
2 PM to 4 PM - Afternoon Speakers

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moksha
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by moksha »

Will this be an LDS reintroduction of plural marriages or will this simply be an attempt to further lie about the practice and proclaim the virginity of Joseph Smith?

Is this by the same guy who wrote In Sacred Licentiousness?
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kairos
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by kairos »

See if you can bring it down to the moral plane, that is ask "Do you have evidence that Joseph Smith believed he was sinning in any way - coercing by bribing (you and your family will be exalted in the celestial kingdom), lust along with adulterous conduct, guilt for deceiving Emma? Can you opine in your opinion whether Joseph Smith conduct was moral - not a sin?"

Do you believe Joseph Smith really got a command from God on polygamy and there actually was an angel with a flaming sword being the polygamy enforcer?

k

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Dr. Shades
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by Dr. Shades »

oliblish wrote:If I end up going, what are some good questions I could ask Brian Hales or the other speakers that would force them to acknowledge some of the unsavory details that they would otherwise avoid?

Yes: "What are the specific differences, if any, between the way Joseph Smith practiced polygamy and the way Warren Jeffs practiced it?"

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Gadianton
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by Gadianton »

Q1: "Would you have freely given your daughter to Joseph Smith as a bride had you lived in that time and he requested it?"

Q2: If 'yes' to Q1, "If Joseph Smith suddenly received revelation that you were to go on a mission and that while you are away, your wife was to be sealed to him, would you have rejoiced at the call, accepted without reservation, and then rushed to tell your wife of the marvelous news about her upcoming sealing?"
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Dr Exiled
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by Dr Exiled »

Q: The way Joseph Smith practiced polygamy/polyandry, he was able to s__t equally on men and women, was that by design to show how "woke" he was, Mormon style?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 

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Philo Sofee
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by Philo Sofee »

I would ask why the GA's are not the ones doing all these seminars and firesides, since they are honestly the only ones who can actually pronounce true doctrine of the church.
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Holy Ghost
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by Holy Ghost »

I would ask "were these women other than Emma really wives?", pointing out that as late as May 26, 1844, in a Sunday sermon, Joseph Smith volunteered:
What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing
adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

If Joseph Smith himself did not consider them wives, why should we?
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate, Physics

Stem
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by Stem »

How can we justify polygamy when no one who practiced it followed the simple prescriptions laid out in D&C 132? Didn't Joseph marry non-virgins, already married to others? Didn't he marry women without Emma knowing? Also, if Joseph is exempt from the revelation, why did Brigham decide not to follow the revelation?

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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by kamenraider »

If Martha Brotherton was such a slut, then why did Brigham Young want to marry her, and why did Joseph Smith offer to take her if she didn't want Brigham? Why did Brigham Young have her sealed to him by proxy later? If she wasn't really a slut then why did they lie and say she was?
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grindael
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by grindael »

Brian and Laura Hales, world-recognized authorities on Nauvoo plural marriage...



Now they are "world recognized authorities"? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Holy Ghost
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by Holy Ghost »

grindael wrote:
Brian and Laura Hales, world-recognized authorities on Nauvoo plural marriage...



Now they are "world recognized authorities"? :lol: :lol: :lol:

on RedPorn?
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate, Physics

thechair
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by thechair »

Brother and Sister Hales,

Did Joseph Smith's polygamy violate the Golden Rule? Yes or no?

Did Joseph Smith's polygamy violate--and cause others to violate--the second great commandment?

Did Joseph Smith violate the commandment not to covet his neighbor's wife (Ex. 20:17; and see Matt. 5:27-28) when he used his power and authority to steal Zina Huntington Jacobs from her new husband, Henry? (And other wives from their husbands?)

If, as is taught in Temples, the definition of the Law of Chastity is to have sexual relations only with one's lawfully-wedded spouse, and if polygamy was illegal in Ohio in 1831 and in Illinois during Joseph's Nauvoo years, doesn't that make Joseph a serial adulterer?

Should missionaries teach to investigators a short lesson on Joseph's polygamy for the purposes of full disclosure and informed consent before asking for their conversion? Or should missionaries conceal this history?

thechair

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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by candygal »

Holy Ghost wrote:I would ask "were these women other than Emma really wives?", pointing out that as late as May 26, 1844, in a Sunday sermon, Joseph Smith volunteered:
What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing
adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

If Joseph Smith himself did not consider them wives, why should we?
Love this question Profound and gets to the core of who Joseph Smith really is.

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SuperDell
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Re: Knowing Joseph: Joseph Smith & Nauvoo Plural Marriage (S

Post by SuperDell »

Go through The Essay on the church website. The Essay on Polygamy - and frame your questions directly from it.
Any answer deviating from this "official source" - question it with direct references to what it say.
“Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love truth.”
― Joseph Joubert

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