Reflections on the ?????Apology Letter?????

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_malkie
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _malkie »

Deleted uncharitable remarks
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
_Kishkumen
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _Kishkumen »

Hey, malkie!

I am familiar with DCP’s cv. Please let me know what you are trying to get at here. Much appreciated!
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Lemmie wrote:Your conclusions fit well with a post I ran across while reading an old MDDB thread:
Kristian

Posted February 12, 2013

Let me add one more points:

I am sorry Dan was dismissed as the editor of the review in the way he was. I want to say that publicly and without reservation. It was (in my opinion) a managerial blunder that caused great pain to a great-hearted man. I called Dan from Rome when he was in Switzerland and said as much to him, and tried to effect some sort of reconciliation after Dan sent his resignation letter. I'm sure I sound flippant and dismissive in my posts (part of the game it seems to me), but please believe me when I say that I feel nothing but sorry about the pain Dan suffered over this dismissal, and everyone I've spoken to at the Maxwell Institute feels the same way. I wanted to say that so we can talk about the issues that remain. I don't want you, Dan or anyone else to think that I am anything other than saddened by the visceral blow dished out to Dan by his dismissal from the Review.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/599 ... 1209222784


Thanks very much for digging that up, Lemmie! Yes: I remember Dr. Heal posting on MDD and elsewhere around that time. My recollection--correct, it turns out--was that he was attempting to put out fires. Notice his careful language: "visceral blow dished out to Dan by his dismissal from the Review." He doesn't *blame* anybody. Earlier in his post, he mentions a "managerial blunder" (and even qualifies it by saying "in my opinion"), but where does he aim this? At Bradford? Samuelson? Holland? He doesn't name names. And as we know from Morgan Davis's letter, and from Peterson and Midgley and the Mopologists, there was a lot more ill will here than Heal seems willing to admit. To this day, Midgley et al. *hate* these people: Midgley, in these past few days, has still been popping off about how it was Heal, Davis, Bradford and Griffing who "conspired" to effect this "change of direction." He still blames them, to this day. The Mopologists seem to have failed to realize just how many people they had pissed off. The "Four Wisemen" (as it were: and yes, I am now revising upwards from three), seemed to realize just how much of a PR disaster this had become, and they made moves to do the right thing, and clearly the Brethren agreed with them (with the caveats I raised above, of course).
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Kishkumen wrote:The part about the land grab is what I have heard from multiple sources on BYU campus. Although Mopologists have denied it in times past, I feel pretty confident that this is at least a big part of the story behind the movement of FARMS onto BYU campus. Their building was right on the edge of campus, maybe 20 yards from a campus street winding around the center of campus.


I'm still convinced that many of the things I laid out in this old thread are pertinent to the discussion. As you will recall, back in the 1990s, FARMS was on pace to raise something like $7 million, and, per the Tanners, they were planning to erect an actual ziggurat to house their operation. It was at this same time that the LDS Church leadership apparently decided that they needed to step in and absorb this into BYU: i.e., what Hamblin, in the quote Lemmie cites, describes as "a land grab and control of donations." I agree with Hamblin: I think that's why this happened.

In that same thread, there is an interesting--and, to my mind, prescient--quote from an interview with DCP:

Daniel Peterson wrote:``In some ways, we are already part of BYU. Almost everyone on the board is a member of the BYU faculty,'' Peterson said. Still, the group ``did enjoy being independent, rather like being an entrepreneur.''

University officials have promised FARMS scholars that they will not interfere in the editorial policies or administration of the group, but Peterson wonders if FARMS' members will feel as free to engage in speculation and discussion of Mormon scripture.

``FARMS has often had a polemical edge and we are curious to see how or whether that will be accommodated,'' he said. ``The minute I write something offensive, we'll see if I get a call.''


It took more than 15 years, but we ultimately got an answer.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_malkie
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _malkie »

Kishkumen wrote:Hey, malkie!

I am familiar with DCP’s cv. Please let me know what you are trying to get at here. Much appreciated!


Deleted attempt to justify a snarky and uncharitable remark.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
NOMinal member

Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
_malkie
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _malkie »

malkie wrote:
Kishkumen wrote:Hey, malkie!

I am familiar with DCP’s cv. Please let me know what you are trying to get at here. Much appreciated!

Hey Rev.

...

If you think that my comment is unfair to Prof P, then I'm amenable to deleting it.

Actually, you've made me realise that my comment was not intended charitably, so I'm going to remove it anyway.

Thanks!
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Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
_moksha
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _moksha »

No matter which way this went down, I imagine almost everyone misses the classic FARMS pineapples and durian fruit. The good news is that durian fruit is still available at the Interpreter.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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