Ed Goble wrote:That's what I thought. They used the wrong samples when archaeology is clear that they were ancient Canaanites, not modern Jews. I challenge you to actually admit that you have no evidence for continuity of ancient Canaanite DNA in the modern Askenazi and Sephardic populations. You people don't need to talk down to me like I'm an idiot when I see to the obvious and to call you out on the obvious. Nothing else but samplings of ancient Canaanite DNA will do, period. No other sample is acceptable. Otherwise the foundations of your claims are categorically flawed. Archaeology is absolutely clear on what population the native Americans must be compared to.
Meaning no disrespect, but it is unlikely that you would be posing such questions, or making such uninformed statements, if you had spent more time reading the relevant science and less time reading fact free apologetic nonsense. While Dr. Southerton may well extend you the courtesy of further explanation, I would point out that the reasons your main ill informed question and expressed concerns are irrelevant have been addressed on this board more than once by Dr. Southerton and others. Nonetheless, here goes again - step by step.1.
Simply put, population genetic analyses show very clearly that the pre-Columbian Amerindian populations in the New World derived exclusively
from groups that lived in relative isolation in northeastern Asia for thousands of years prior to migrating to the Americas - long enough to accrue genetic markers unique to that relatively isolated population. This is settled science.*2.
Starting some 20,000 years ago, climatic conditions became such that members of these groups living in Siberia and Beringia could begin migrations into the Americas via the Bering land bridge (via Beringia). There is evidence for migration over land as well as just offshore along the coast.
These groups all carried genetic markers accrued during the Beringia "hold up" period prior to the climatic shift that allowed further eastern migration. This means that pre-Columbian Amerindian populations all carried specific genetic markers from the time of their ancestors in Northeast Asia.3.
As stated upthread, it is possible to determine the time when a specific genetic mutation enters a population. Also as stated, there is no evidence that Old World genetic markers, not already in the pre-migration Beringia population DNA, entered the Amerindian population prior to the time of the arrival of the first Europeans**
in the New World in the 15th century. 4.
As Physics Guy pointed out, it doesn’t matter if one is looking for markers from Askenazi, Sephardic or Cannanite populations. Any one of them, or any genetic markers from Europe, the Middle East, or anywhere else but via Beringia, would have been detected as "foreign" in terms of the time they entered the Amerindian genome prior to the 15th century CE.*** 5.
As Dr. Southerton has pointed out, the overwhelming evidence for no additional Old World DNA insertion events into the Amerindian genome before the time of Columbus comes from decades of extensive analysis of mitochondrial DNA (mt
DNA) and somatic DNA in general. 6. Most importantly
, these conclusions reflect the strong and well supported position of mainstream scientists fully engaged in, or contributing to, population genetics. The data base in support of the mainstream science view is large indeed and grows each year with technical advances and increasing amounts of genetic test data readily available.
_______*Elsewhere on this board are numerous references to peer reviewed publications, including comprehensive review papers on the subject and even a description of the genetic markers carried by 9,000 year old Kennewick man, that support the simplified general narrative above. I could find and list them for you, but given that you seem unwilling to even read the outstanding book mentioned in the OP, I fail to see the point.** And yes, we know that Vikings arrived in the Canadian Maritimes before the 15th century. However, the best documented genetic interchange from this encounter ended up with Amerindian DNA migrating to Europe by way of an Amerindian female pregnant with a Viking child who returned to Europe, and not the other way around. Descendants of that Amerindian female currently living in Europe - and there are many of them - are readily identifiable by genetic markers inherited from her.***Physics Guy could have rightly claimed that specific DNA markers, including those from now extinct subspecies (e.g., H. sapiens neanderthalensis) can persist in the human genome for well over 30,000 years instead of just 3,000 years. If you are of mainly European descent, it is more likely than not that you have Neanderthal DNA in your genome, even though Neanderthals went extinct as a subspecies some 40,000 years ago.