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Did RMN signal a path to revelation on marriage equality?
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 Post subject: Did RMN signal a path to revelation on marriage equality?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:39 pm 
Endowed Chair of Historical Innovation
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:19 pm
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Location: HSB 201 ... -laws-god/

Nelson's recent BYU speech was edited, post delivery, to remove the line "God has not changed his definition of marriage" from the talk. I think it fair to assume the revision was absolutely necessary -- to avoid confusion or accusations of dishonesty -- due to polygamist doctrines and practices (both historic and as presently allowed for in the temple). It especially merited editing, ironically, since this portion of the talk appeared immediately following such bold declarations as "we [prophets] are commanded to teach truth" and "we [prophets] will always teach the truth!"

I highlight one section from the revised text because it could, potentially, be viewed as leaving open the possibility for an anticipated future revelation changing to the definition of heavenly sanctioned marriage.

Emphasis added by me.

Nelson wrote:
For example, let’s consider the definition of marriage. In recent years, many countries, including the United States, have legalized same-sex marriage. As members of the Church, we respect the laws of the land and abide by them, including civil marriage. The truth is, however, that in the beginning—in the beginning—marriage was ordained by God! And to this day it is defined by Him as being between a man and a woman.

Again, we know this segment of the talk was edited before online publication.

Therefore, the wording will certainly have been carefully reviewed and re-reviewed for clarity and intent.

Nelson didn't have to add "to this day" as a qualifier. He could have been significantly more definite -- "It is defined..." or he could have sealed the deal forever with "It is and will always be defined..."

But he didn't. He instead made the statement as indefinite as we have ever seen. "To this day, it is defined..."

I would cautiously proffer that Pres Nelson just quietly left a window open. If he did, and if he meant to do it, then why? Is it possible that through the crack is visible, for the first time in church history, a prophetic hint at the path leading to adoption of full marriage equality in the church?

I'm sure there will be plenty of opinions on this matter. And unfortunately, if history rhymes, we won't know the answer for another decade, or two, or three.

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 Post subject: Re: Did RMN signal a path to revelation on marriage equality
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:22 pm 
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Location: Koloburbia
If God gave overly harsh information on this topic in the past, then the Brethren can make caring supplications to the Big Guy on behalf of those his Church was commanded to smite with rhetoric. It is clearly written in The Five (totally unchangeable) Truths.

Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace

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 Post subject: Re: Did RMN signal a path to revelation on marriage equality
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:12 pm
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Maybe, not to mention he says “god defines” like he’s the Oxford dictionary or something.

If there were real commitment, he’d say it’s written before the foundations of all the worlds, and if God We’re not to honor it, he would cease to be god.

But I wonder how much it matters. The church is driven by profits, they’d like to get in good with their right-wing neighbors, but taking one for the team on SSA hasn’t worked. deeper then that, they’re such a bunch of old-timers, they’d never get past their instinct that it’s a horrible sin. 1930s social mores. When a Millennial prophet gets in, it will be a done deal, no matter what previous prophets have said.

Still, it’s interesting that he chooses such slippery language.

FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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 Post subject: Re: Did RMN signal a path to revelation on marriage equality
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:06 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:50 pm
Posts: 62
Location: The Land of Ooo
One nice thing about claiming to speak for God is that your biases and prejudices happen to also be shared with the creator of the universe. And God has made it clear through his chosen representatives how we should feel about marriage equality. So I’m afraid that any hope for God condoning gay marriage is out of the question with the current group of God’s chosen representatives. I honestly don’t see the Mormon church accepting gay marriage in the foreseeable future. It would probably take President Nelson actually getting in touch with the creator of the universe to make that happen.


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