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 Post subject: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:09 pm 
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New podcast just up at Radio Free Mormon.

Bill Reel and I dissect President Nelson's BYU talk from last Tuesday.

https://radiofreemormon.org/2019/09/7446/

I hope you like it!

All the Best!

--RFM

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Oh goody, goody, goody!!!

:razz:

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:17 pm 
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Agree that this talk contains a number of problematic statements, is oddly timed and structured, and does nothing to help sooth the exposed nerve.

Your revised 30 second talk at the end was brilliant. I hope you will publish that as a stand alone text somewhere. That is what we need. Simple, vulnerable, honest admission that best effort failed and we are sorry. Claiming that God had anything to do with the Pox or its pseudo-reversal just salts the wound.

Polygamy in context of his claim that God's definition of marriage between 1 man and 1 woman has not changed -- oyyyy veyyyyy -- no wonder the text version online was immediately edited to remove that claim.

Feedback: you guys spent a fair amount of time speculating that the exceptions to the PoX must have been from privileged Mormon families. I thought that line of reasoning was weak, lacked evidence, and was uncharacteristic relative to your methodology of sticking to harder data to craft arguments.


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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:55 pm 
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I really enjoyed the podcast and will be listening to it again. The longer I'm out of the church the more the whole thing seems so ridiculous. NelSatan is self deluded and is inventing his own ideas of what a prophet is and how one operates as he goes along playing his game. Mormons today who adore him and revere what he says deserve every bit of him. He is playing a role and giving them what they think they need. The rising generation for the better part is not going to buy it. The church is losing a generation.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:41 pm 
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Ah, I wish I had my new Weird Alma tune, “We Hate With Love,” ready for this.

Looking forward to hear you guys have a go at that talk. :smile:

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:53 pm 
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Great job yet again. Nelson must know what he is doing, when he misleads everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:00 am 
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Dr Moore wrote:
Polygamy in context of his claim that God's definition of marriage between 1 man and 1 woman has not changed -- oyyyy veyyyyy -- no wonder the text version online was immediately edited to remove that claim.
Wait...what? The man who is walking around with his second wife on his arm, his second eternal bride, actually said marriage was supposed to be between “one man and one woman”? But then the published transcript of what he said became “a man and a woman”?

Quote:
For example, let’s consider the definition of marriage. In recent years, many countries, including the United States, have legalized same-sex marriage. As members of the Church, we respect the laws of the land and abide by them, including civil marriage. The truth is, however, that in the beginning—in the beginning—marriage was ordained by God! And to this day it is defined by Him as being between a man and a woman.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ember-2019
What did Nelson actually say?
Can the Church truthfully call it a transcript when it’s been quietly re-written without showing the amendments?
Who gets to decide which words to retrospectively put in Nelsons mouth?

Quote:
God has not changed His definition of marriage.

That statement is so disingenuous it is beyond belief that it isn’t a deliberate attempt to mislead.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:06 am 
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The 2015 policy decision to exclude the children of same-sex couples from Church membership was made solely out of anger toward the Supreme Court decision to allow same-sex marriage. To claim it was made out of love of God is a lie. It was a decision based on anger and the policy reversal was made because it caused members to leave and brought the Church much bad publicity.

Instead, President Nelson should have apologized for claiming this horrendous policy was a revelation back in 2016. The web grows increasingly tangled when you decide to deceive.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:39 am 
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moksha wrote:
The 2015 policy decision to exclude the children of same-sex couples from Church membership was made solely out of anger toward the Supreme Court decision to allow same-sex marriage. To claim it was made out of love of God is a lie. It was a decision based on anger and the policy reversal was made because it caused members to leave and brought the Church much bad publicity.

Instead, President Nelson should have apologized for claiming this horrendous policy was a revelation back in 2016. The web grows increasingly tangled when you decide to deceive.


Oh wow, that's a strong statement coming from you. It's clear you did not like NelSatan's talk at all. I will agree that they didn't make the policy out of the love in their hearts for children of gay parents. That's utterly false. They made the policy out of spite and stubbornness.

I have a question is correct when he calls out NelSatan's hypocrisy in the definition of marriage seeing that he's a polygamist himself -- Wendy-bitch at his side along with this first wife -- that makes two women so he's a premeditated polygamist planning to bed two women at once when he gets to his Mormon heaven. NelSatan is a goddamn liar!

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:38 am 
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moksha wrote:
The 2015 policy decision to exclude the children of same-sex couples from Church membership was made solely out of anger toward the Supreme Court decision to allow same-sex marriage. To claim it was made out of love of God is a lie. It was a decision based on anger and the policy reversal was made because it caused members to leave and brought the Church much bad publicity.

Instead, President Nelson should have apologized for claiming this horrendous policy was a revelation back in 2016. The web grows increasingly tangled when you decide to deceive.


Couldn't agree more. Spot on.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:37 am 
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Shulem wrote:
Oh wow, that's a strong statement coming from you.

I hope it was not too strong. Things too strong have a tendency to make even truth-seeking LDS members stop listening.

I want to see the Church be completely honest so it can live up to its spiritual promise.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:49 am 
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moksha wrote:
I want to see the Church be completely honest so it can live up to its spiritual promise.


I think it's readily apparent that that will never happen so long as the senior members of the 15 are alive. They have sold their souls to the cult. The question remains whether the junior members of the cult will continue to sell their souls to the cause. I think they will. Why? Because Mormonism is rotten to the core.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:37 pm 
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moksha wrote:
I want to see the Church be completely honest so it can live up to its spiritual promise.


Never going to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:03 pm 
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Does Pres Nelson have a dragon tattoo?

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:29 pm 
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This was so good. It brought out points I have never thought of...Bill and Consig make a great team. Thank you! I passed on to relatives.


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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:09 pm 
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I have a question wrote:

Quote:
God has not changed His definition of marriage.

That statement is so disingenuous it is beyond belief that it isn’t a deliberate attempt to mislead.


Well,, maybe we should give Rusty "Donuts" Nelson the benefit of the doubt here. He may be telling the truth, and tacitly admitting that the scriptures and the doctrines of the LDS Church are man-made and not of divine origin. If you look at it that way, it makes perfect sense: the Bible's, and the LDS church's, shifting definitions and policies regarding "marriage" were not changed by divine decree but by uninspired men.

There's actually a pretty big admission hiding there in plain sight, isn't there?

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:13 pm 
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That was an excellent podcast. Outrageous. Mormons worship their own leaders who worship themselves. And the most mediocre of them can smugly contemplate their godhood wherein the most brilliant and accomplished gentiles will be their wretched inferiors. :rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:27 am 
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Something I hadn’t picked up on, and which consiglieri and Bill mention but don’t go the whole way with in the podcast, is that Nelson, on his way to blaming God for the November 2015 policy, opens by chastising the audience for the fact he’s had to reverse the policy. He says, in a long-winded and carefully crafted message, that it is their fault (the members of the Church) for grumbling and complaining and being disloyal to the Leadership of the Church that this policy has had to be reversed (?) by God and explained by him. It’s Blame The Victim 101.

I think that is a significant part of his talk that hasn’t been fully explored.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:07 am 
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Nelson, September 2019
Quote:
Requirements to enter the temple have not changed.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ember-2019



Kimball 1978
Quote:
In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church.

Quote:
OFFICIAL DECLARATION 2
The Book of Mormon teaches that “all are alike unto God,” including “black and white, bond and free, male and female” (2 Nephi 26:33). Throughout the history of the Church, people of every race and ethnicity in many countries have been baptized and have lived as faithful members of the Church. During Joseph Smith’s lifetime, a few black male members of the Church were ordained to the priesthood. Early in its history, Church leaders stopped conferring the priesthood on black males of African descent. Church records offer no clear insights into the origins of this practice. Church leaders believed that a revelation from God was needed to alter this practice and prayerfully sought guidance. The revelation came to Church President Spencer W. Kimball and was affirmed to other Church leaders in the Salt Lake Temple on June 1, 1978. The revelation removed all restrictions with regard to race that once applied to the priesthood.


In a talk where Nelson stated that he and his colleagues are obligated to always speak the truth. Staggering.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:16 am 
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Nelson
Quote:
Consider the policy announced in November 2015 related to the advisability of baptism for the children of LGBT parents.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ember-2019

Dear President Nelson, please can you link to the Church announcement of the policy in November 2015 that you referenced in your talk? I’m struggling to locate it. Thanks in advance, IHAQ.

He won’t answer, because he can’t. John Dehlin leaked the changes when they were secretly made to the handbook.
Quote:
Church spokesman Eric Hawkins confirmed the documents were accurate, but he did not answer questions about the policies beyond stating that the church has a longstanding policy against gay marriage.

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=CMSID

Yet another blatant lie by Nelson in a talk that is riddled with lies, gaslighting, and victim blaming. I think an open letter to Mr Nelson is called for, asking him to publicly explain each and every untruth in his talk.

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 Post subject: Re: The Prophet Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:20 am 
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Has there been any mention of this particular podcast on any of the chapel or internet Mormon blogs or message boards? If so what was said?

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