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 Post subject: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:41 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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A very, very unusual and intriguing item was posted on "Sic at Non" not long ago. Dr. Peterson opens the entry with a paean to the people in his academic department at BYU:

SeN wrote:
It was a real loss to our Arabic faculty at BYU when my longtime friend and colleague Dil Parkinson retired a couple of years ago. (By the way, he and his wife are now just back from an LDS humanitarian services mission to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan — another item that is simply begging to be included in your already overflowing “Christopher Hitchens Memorial ‘How Religion Poisons Everything’ File.”) But, gathering with most of our faculty this afternoon for our annual pre-fall-semester meeting — Kirk Belnap is leading a BYU intensive Arabic program in Amman, Jordan, and Ahmad Karout is back for a while in his native Syria, from which he will nonetheless be teaching classes for us online — I was impressed with the intelligence, strong backgrounds, and ability of my colleagues and with their sheer desire to teach and serve. And that is to say nothing of the other faculty who teach in our broader Middle East Studies – Arabic or MESA program.


Quite nice, no? I know that we certainly enjoy a similar admiration for one another here at Cassius University. But this is unusual for DCP: normally, he spends all his time praising fellow Mopologists: people who help him with "Interpreter," or who are "fellow travelers," as it were. Maybe DCP is beginning to feel some heat, though? Maybe he's starting to feel a bit of concern that some praise of his colleagues is in order because....well, why? Now, don't get me wrong: of course there are times when people are simply being nice. And I'm sure that there are plenty of times when even DCP has been nice to others just for the sake of being nice. So, if this was just a nice report on the quality and collegiality of DCP's colleagues, then that would be that, and I would not be writing a post about it. But then the other shoe drops:

Daniel Peterson wrote:
For various program-general scheduling reasons, we’ve had to move my MESA 250 class (Introduction to the Religion of Islam) to an unusually late time on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I expect that that is the reason that enrollment in the class is sharply down from previous semesters — along with the fact that the class’s final examination is currently scheduled for the very last period of the very last day of fall semester final examinations. (Alternatively, the low enrollment might reflect the fact that my reputation as a surpassingly mediocre teacher is finally getting out.)


Hmmm. This doesn't sound good. Correct me if I'm wrong, Dean Robbers, but at Cassius, we cancel classes if the enrollment is too low. This happens very, very rarely, thanks to the scheduling and planning acumen of the staff in your office, but when it *does* happen.... Well, you know how much of a pain that is. It removes a chunk of work that the professor in question is contractually obliged to provide to the university. So--as you have complained to us many times--your poor staff is then left struggling to find other work so that the professor can fulfill the terms of his contract.

Peterson goes on:

DCP wrote:
Anyway, on the off chance that somebody out there in the audience of this blog is a student at BYU or knows somebody who is, I’m sharing this little announcement:


Introduction to Religion of Islam

Study of the sources, history, principles of religion, law, and practice from the founding of Islam until the present period.


MESA 250 (Middle East Studies – Arabic)

4 PM – 5:15 PM

T/Th

117 HRCB

There are no required prerequisites – e.g., no knowledge of Arabic or any other Islamicate language – for the class.

It is possible, though not certain, that the time and location of the class could be adjusted with the approval of class members.

Islam is a major factor in today’s world, both globally and within the United States and Canada, and knowledge of the faith and of the peoples and cultures influenced by it can benefit students with a wide range of career plans.


I will find also surely find some way to improve on the scheduled time for the class’s final examination.

Posted from Park City, Utah


Wow: so he's having to advertise for his own class? And, he is openly saying that he is going to go against the university-appointed time? Did he get permission from his department chair to do that? He says that the new time slot has led to "enrollment in the class [going] sharply down from previous semesters". So what happened? He says, "For various program-general scheduling reasons, we’ve had to move my MESA 250 class." Well, no: that can't possibly be true. This wasn't a "we" sort of decision; if it had been, he wouldn't have led off with that panegyric of his colleagues. (Unless this is a veiled, passive-aggressive sort of swipe at them. I.e., a sort of quiet means of blaming whoever was responsible for this schedule.) And, if the class is canceled, that will leave him scrambling to fulfill the terms of his teaching contract. Was this really just a blunder related to "various program-general scheduling reasons"? Or did he piss somebody off in his home department? There is doubtless someone in his department--just as is the case in every department at Cassius--who oversees the scheduling and who makes the decisions. It is *never* a "we" kind of decision: that would involve too many chefs in the kitchen, as it were, and nothing would ever get done. It may be that Peterson was allowed to give input into this decision-making via a form or a poll or something, and he was just dumb and agreed to this time despite the apparent risks. Or, sure: it could be that he was distracted and forgot to fill out the form, and so this was all that the scheduling person had left to work with. But think about this: if he fails to fulfill the terms of his contract, won't he be fired? Could that be used in a case to have him removed?

I will admit that I have, rather recently, been privy to some gossip which sounds very troubling indeed: namely, that there are powers-that-be who've at last had enough of Peterson, Midgley, and the Mopologists, and that moves are being made to "force" DCP to retire by the end of the year. As always: readers are advised to treat this for what it is: gossip and speculation. But given this latest "announcement" from "SeN," I am beginning to wonder if there might be some credence to the rumor.

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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:18 pm 
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Perhaps decades of crapping all over the hard sciences finally caught someone’s attention? Perhaps his incessantly googling polymath persona isn’t enough to balance half-assing it with his instruction? Lord knows he hasn’t produced the literature he promised his employer years ago probably because of his message board addiction. Perhaps the person who offered him a hand to deal with his addiction might be an inner circle type, and his being rebuffed by Mr. Peterson was the last straw? I mean, for god’s sake he allows The Midge to post on his very public blog happy tidings that Hitler (!) is saved and enjoying God’s blessings.

So. Take your pic. The mopologists are a HUGE embarrassment for BYU. Can it take any more hits to its credibility? Let’s not forget BYU is very aware of Mr. Petersons plagiarisms, so he’s already on shaky ground reference his employment.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:28 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Lord knows he hasn’t produced the literature he promised his employer years ago probably because of his message board addiction.


Oh, wow.... I had completely forgotten about that, Doctor Cam, but you're right: he had promised to produce *two* books, if I'm not mistaken. I wonder what the written terms of that deal were. Maybe he made that post because, at the meeting, his colleagues were like, "So, Dan: when do we get to read these two books?"

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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:03 am 
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Tom wrote:
I was considering auditing the class in question, but BYU’s online class schedule tool shows only a few seats open (unless I’m misreading it). I am puzzled. In any case, I don’t want to ruin the curve for the younger students given my expertise in Qur’anic intelligent design and limited and Heartland geography theories.

After a second look at the class schedule, I think there are actually 35 open seats in his Intro to the Religion of Islam class. The class has room for 40 students.


Last edited by Tom on Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:23 am 
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Quote:
If I don’t finish them, that won’t reflect well on me, and it would greatly lessen the credibility of any future leave request that I might make. However, I’m so very old now that there won’t be another leave request before I retire. So that’s not much of a threat. I intend to finish them—I want to finish them; that’s why I sought the leave, after all—but the consequences of a failure to do so would be minimal.
wow. So, Peterson’s thought process on following through on this promise is to note that he can break his word without facing the “threat” of meaningful consequences, imposed from the outside. No comment on a moral obligation or a positive motivation for this task, just that it will be easy to avoid any external punishment for his behavior or choices, so he’s not worried about not finishing.

Is this what happens when you assume only a belief in afterlife causes people to know and do the moral thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:54 am 
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Let P be a tenured professor employed by university U.

U defines job J(P) as the set {X, Y, Z}, for which U offers annual compensation C(P). It is not defined what ratio of C(P) is attributed to the performance of each element of J(P), but it is assumed that each element of the job set has a definable, non zero value.

C(P) is received in every year of employment. It is expected, but not assured, that P will perform all elements of J(P) every year.

What, then, can it be said that “P is paid to do?”

Consider a year series, i = [i1, i2 ... iN], where N is the last year in which P is employed by U.

Case 1: all elements of J(P) are performed
In a given year, P performs each element of the job set, X, Y, and Z. Therefore, it can be said that:
(a) P has performed job J(P)i
(b) P was paid only C(P)i for performing job J(P)i
(c) P was paid C(P)i only for performing job J(P)i

Case 2: not all elements of J(P) are performed
In a given year, P performs only some elements of the job set, say X but not Y or Z. But in the year, P also performs personal job B, which P believes offers an indirect benefit to the owners of U. Then it can be said that:
(a) P has not performed job J(P)i
(b) P was paid part of C(P)i for performing part of job J(P)i. The remainder of C(P)i was paid for performing job B.
(c) P was paid C(P)i only for performing job J(P)i


In Case 2, statements (b) and (c) appear contradictory, yet both are true.

Statement (b) is true because P received all of C(P)i yet did not deliver the non zero value of Y and Z in the job set. Job B was performed instead. Therefore, from the perspective of P, and what P actually did in year i, it can truly be said that P received a part of C(P)i for doing personal job B. This is the Doctor Scratch argument

Statement (c) is also true because from the perspective of U, compensation C(P)i was made with the intent that P would perform all of J(P)i. Whether this happened in year i or not is irrelevant, the compensation was paid with the expectation of the job set, and only elements of the job set, being performed. This is the Daniel Peterson argument


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:34 am 
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Technically, b and c are NOT “both true,”

Saying both b and c are true implies both can occur in the same universe of assumptions.

In b, element B must be assumed to be added to the set J, since initial conditions defined C as payment for elements of set J.

In c, saying C is only payment for J elements, even though B was done implies B is NOT an element of set J, due to initial conditions defining elements of set J as corresponding to some non-zero value of set C.

If you change your initial conditions to include some expectation that certain elements of J are required but can potentially have a corresponding ZERO value in set C, you’re closer to the statement you made that “P also performs personal job B, which P believes offers an indirect benefit to the owners of U.”

If you just have that statement without including a required element B in set J that corresponds to a potentially zero-valued element B in set C, then you are just describing the professor thinking it’s nice to do B, but it has no defined value for the university, which collapses back to B not being an element in the set of J for both parts b and c, and therefore, b and c can NOT both be true.

Tl; dr :
No, parts b and c can NOT both be true, although both parties can certainly believe their individual part is true.


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:45 am 
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I see your points but maintain (c) is true from the perspective of U. U is paying for a job, and not for anything else. It doesn’t intend to pay for an incomplete job, nor does it contractually contemplate paying for job B. Whether it gets a complete job or not is a separate matter to be dealt with annually in performance evaluations.


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:48 am 
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As in many cases of employment, the employee's relationship with his immediate boss is often key to performance raises, granting of leave, socialization skills in the employment environment, eg is he a good guy, does he fit in well with coworkers, has a positive can do attitude etc.

So for DCP do we know who his immediate boss is? does he report to the chairman of the department, does he have grad students working under him in terms of class assistance or research or is Dan a lone ranger, doing his own thing, eg teaching required classes but mainly addicted to mopologetics? how well does he know/get along with his peer profs in his department? by the way has Dan ever posted of a leadership role in his department like chair or vice chair or something similar? answers will help determine whether he is heading out the door toward retirement or that he has a rock solid continuing professorship at BYU.

Do we really know who Daniel Peterson really is???

Staff and students at Cassius university need to know in case his job application suddenly appear in Drs Shades or Scratch's in box.

just askin'

k


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:53 am 
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Dr Moore wrote:
I see your points but maintain (c) is true from the perspective of U. U is paying for a job, and not for anything else. It doesn’t intend to pay for an incomplete job, nor does it contractually contemplate paying for job B. Whether it gets a complete job or not is a separate matter to be dealt with annually in performance evaluations.


Which set includes apologetics, because that’s been the lion’s share of his handiwork over the last thirty years.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:54 am 
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Dr Moore wrote:
I see your points but maintain (c) is true from the perspective of U. U is paying for a job, and not for anything else. It doesn’t intend to pay for an incomplete job, nor does it contractually contemplate paying for job B. Whether it gets a complete job or not is a separate matter to be dealt with annually in performance evaluations.

Of course, but that wasn’t my point. Your argument that I was responding to was this:
Quote:
Dr Moore:

In Case 2, statements (b) and (c) appear contradictory, yet both are true.

Statement (b) is true because...
This is the Doctor Scratch argument

Statement (c) is also true because...
This is the Daniel Peterson argument


To say two statements are simultaneously true implies they are true under the same assumptions. What you are describing is two different interpretations, with different assumptions, and two perceptions of truth.

Two perceptions of truth can certainly exist, but that is not that same as saying:
Quote:
Dr Moore:

In Case 2, statements (b) and (c) appear contradictory, yet both are true


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:24 am 
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Lemmie, that’s exactly the point. Both are true from different points of view. Thank you for clarifying that the assumptions are indeed different.

I am making the case that both Scratch and Peterson can be telling the truth from a certain point of view.

The facts are debatable. Whether a point of view is more valid, or potentially deceptive, or truthful to all stakeholders, is debatable.


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:30 am 
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Dr Moore wrote:
I see your points but maintain (c) is true from the perspective of U. U is paying for a job, and not for anything else. It doesn’t intend to pay for an incomplete job, nor does it contractually contemplate paying for job B. Whether it gets a complete job or not is a separate matter to be dealt with annually in performance evaluations.

Re the bolded part I would disagree that this is a settled point. Iirc, it has been documented that maxwell institute (and therefore, BYU) covered parts of several professor’s salaries in exchange for their work at MI, which would arguably be considered apologetic, during peterson’s tenure there.


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:37 am 
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Heh, and if I remember correctly the two books he was working on are simply regurgitations of what he has already written. Boring. Why can't and won't he plow new ground, give us some extra information and insights into other subjects of interest? Why must he maintain a groove he plowed dozens of years ago that has for all intents and purposes proven quite unworth reading in the first place? Are there really that many Mormons who care about the Mormon Islam relationship? Really?

Heck a commentary on one of the New Testament books using the Greek would be far more interesting, (especially if he could tie it into Mesoamerica :biggrin: ) at least to the internet Mormons. Chapel Mormons are in for the fluff and good feelins sort of writing, so Peterson hasn't got a chance for intellectual inproving there. But there are a few internet Mormons who would purchase his book, say maybe 100....

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Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:15 pm 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
I will admit that I have, rather recently, been privy to some gossip which sounds very troubling indeed: namely, that there are powers-that-be who've at last had enough of Peterson, Midgley, and the Mopologists, and that moves are being made to "force" DCP to retire by the end of the year. As always: readers are advised to treat this for what it is: gossip and speculation.


I know several people in Peter$on's department feel the department's reputation is being hurt by his presence (just like his presence hurt the Maxwell Institute).

Peter$on hasn't published anything in ages, his teaching ability is consistently ranked very low by his students and his constant drama and feuding bring unwanted attention to the department.

It's no secret, his department and MANY others at BYU would love to see him leave.

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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:23 pm 
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Dr Moore wrote:
Lemmie, that’s exactly the point. Both are true from different points of view. Thank you for clarifying that the assumptions are indeed different.

I am making the case that both Scratch and Peterson can be telling the truth from a certain point of view.

The facts are debatable. Whether a point of view is more valid, or potentially deceptive, or truthful to all stakeholders, is debatable.

Sigh. Ok. Don’t use math unless you can use it correctly, then, because the case you now say you are making was not the case you were making when you were using the math.

Telling the “truth” from different points of view implies someone’s “truth” is an error, NOT that both points of view are “true.”


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:24 pm 
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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
I know several people in Peter$on's department feel the department's reputation is being hurt by his presence (just like his presence hurt the Maxwell Institute).

Peter$on hasn't published anything in ages, his teaching ability is consistently ranked very low by his students and his constant drama and feuding bring unwanted attention to the department.

It's no secret, his department and MANY others at BYU would love to see him leave.


Man. I feel terrible for his students who one shot at a decent education, and are left with these kinds of experiences:

- I was very disappointed overall in this class. Accessibility outside of class was an issue. Classes tended to be very lecture heavy and would frequently deviate from the coursework and would drift to the professor's outside employment with the church.

- I was very disappointed. Professor Peterson wasn't accessible outside of class. His lectures were all about his travels. This is not a class to take if you care about or want to learn about the subject.

- Told us throughout the semester that there was nothing anyone could do to get him fired because of how long he worked at BYU. He didn't seem to care about his job at all and 90% of the class was consumed by personal stories about his accomplishments. If you mess up any particular area of the class (one paper/test/etc.) you'll drop a letter grade.

- I felt like I learned more from my AP history class in high school. Skip this class and just read a basic book on the subject.

So and so forth. This is BYU, folks.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:31 pm 
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kairos wrote:
Do we really know who Daniel Peterson really is???

Staff and students at Cassius university need to know in case his job application suddenly appear in Drs Shades or Scratch's in box.

just askin''

k

Daniel Peterson holds the Distinguished Ronin Chair of Egyptology and Apologetics at BYU. Don't ask further about possibly snagging him from BYU because Cassius could not possibly match the travel benefits Dr. Peterson receives.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:53 pm 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, Dean Robbers, but at Cassius, we cancel classes if the enrollment is too low

At our school, we follow the theories of Adam Smith: Supply and Demand, for those who have heard of these sorts of things. We of course, are partial to the "supply" side of the equation. I would take five hundred words or so to explain how following the assumptions of a free-market, the outcomes of a free-market follow, as happens now and again at a certain blog that I shall not mention. But why listen to me, when you can hear that and more, including some great social class commentary from an expert on politics:

Lou Midgley wrote:
I wanted my classes to start no earlier than 9:00AM, and to end by 5:00PM. I always got my way. The thought of leaching late into the evening, or teaching "night school" for extra money, which I never did, seemed to violate the whole idea that universities were gentlemen.

And there you have it, so much said in so few words. A masterful comment. If I'm not mistaken, in his unquenchable desire to brag about how great he is, he just threw his Mopologetic leader and career mentor under a bus. No doubt there will be some bad blood here in the wake, that Midgley's comment didn't receive an up-vote from his mentor betrays the hurt.

Lou Midgley wrote:
The elite Ivy League institutions did things differently back then, and hopefully they still do. They were not trade schools, where the point was to train people merely for jobs in the then market place. They still had a focus on a Liberal Education, often understood in the older way.

I have a hard time understanding where these rumors are coming from, Dr. Scratch, and President Chung. Wouldn't the higher-ups at BYU and elsewhere in the church be proud to have Midgley trash-talking the underclass who must work so hard to subside in life? Aren't they impressed that Midgley has traveled all over China while a single mother out there somewhere took night classes on top of two jobs in order to maybe get a few more bucks an hour to feed a family? What a fantastic guy to have represent the Church's way of looking at the world!

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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:48 pm 
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Midgley is what is proudly known in many circles as an elitist Mormon Batch (supply the "i" in place of the "a" and the word is revealed as clearly as those that showed up on Joseph Smith's rock in his hat.

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Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


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 Post subject: Re: Has DCP Pissed Off His Home Dept. at BYU?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:33 pm 
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Gadianton wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, Dean Robbers, but at Cassius, we cancel classes if the enrollment is too low

At our school, we follow the theories of Adam Smith: Supply and Demand, for those who have heard of these sorts of things. We of course, are partial to the "supply" side of the equation. I would take five hundred words or so to explain how following the assumptions of a free-market, the outcomes of a free-market follow, as happens now and again at a certain blog that I shall not mention. But why listen to me, when you can hear that and more, including some great social class commentary from an expert on politics:

Lou Midgley wrote:
I wanted my classes to start no earlier than 9:00AM, and to end by 5:00PM. I always got my way. The thought of leaching late into the evening, or teaching "night school" for extra money, which I never did, seemed to violate the whole idea that universities were gentlemen.

And there you have it, so much said in so few words. A masterful comment. If I'm not mistaken, in his unquenchable desire to brag about how great he is, he just threw his Mopologetic leader and career mentor under a bus. No doubt there will be some bad blood here in the wake, that Midgley's comment didn't receive an up-vote from his mentor betrays the hurt.

I saw that, too, Dr. Robbers, and you're right--it would appear to confirm the rumors. This line, in particular, is devastating: "I always got my way." And, obviously, DCP did not.

_________________
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14


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