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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:20 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:

Well, it seems to me that the number of jerk apologists is pretty low. You have a core of classic-FARMS jerks, a few more in their orbit, and then their jerky fan club. And, to be fair, even the people who behave like jerks when they do apologetics are not always in that mode. But yes, when they are in that mode, and they show up to comment on something, they tend to look pretty bad. But so too, however, do many of us look bad when we are blowing off steam about Mormonism. There are definitely ex-Mo counterparts to these jerks. And, just as you hear that apologist so and so is really a great guy in person, I am sure the same is true of some highly abrasive ex-Mos.


Right. The apologists however are supposed to be Christlike in everything they do and say. They are supposed to be Christians, whatever that is. More is expected of them when it comes to online behavior because they are the ones that say "look at our true church and we have the Spirit". So there you have it. They need to be on their best behavior as they continue to work their way to heaven. Us, on the other hand are going to heaven automatically (assuming there is one) because assuming there is a God he is gracious and loving, nothing like the apologists.

Life is wonderful. It's so liberating to be free from bondage of the church. It was a nightmare and it's over now but I still have those memories. That sets me off at times, just remembering how I was a slave to that institution. It makes me mad. And yes, when the church tried to stop gay marriage it really made me mad. I'm sure you can understand that. I just can't forgive the church for that and I want to hit back, hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:45 am 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
For some reason apologetics now appears to me to being tough, meaning, harsh, meaning mean spirited for most of the time. I guess perhaps they think they come across as being valiant when their peers read them and so its ok to be verbally abusive... What they fail to see is how they look to all others. And until the brethren rein them in, the social problems of people leaving are going to continue. No one wants to be part of a crowd that is so high and mighty arrogant, and so rude and gruff with others. For whatever reason, the apologists simply cannot grasp how they look to the world when they are trying to defend their Gospel.


It's frustrating and difficult for apologists to defend the truth claims, moreover the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham are becoming increasingly difficult to defend as the counter arguments have intensified and matured into rock solid arguments. Who wants to defend the Book of Abraham? John Gee doesn't want to talk about it. Nobody does, well, perhaps Ed Goble does because he's grasping through his last straw, which is a very long straw indeed.

The apologists are angry because they are under attack and constantly being reminded how terrible their arguments are. What Book of Abraham apologist wants to have to answer for the horrible Explanations of Facsimile No. 3? None of them do! It's a bloody nightmare and it's frustrating. Even William Schryver is on record for saying he would be happy enough to see the Facsimiles just go away. It's embarrassing to have to defend Mormonism. Everything from polygamy to Book of Mormon anachronisms constantly grinds away at one's faith. They get angry when we remind them about how bad it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 am 
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Any chance Blake Ostler was right and Dr. Midgley's recent posts have been from beyond the veil or at least partially translated?

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:50 am 
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There are definitely ex-Mo counterparts to these jerks.


True, Reverend. I'm sure there are blogs and boards out there with angry players on both sides none of us have heard of before.

There is just one detail that makes it different for the apologists we cross paths with occasionally. Ultimately, they are connected to the Church leadership at "the highest levels", and have done their work -- and it would seem thanks to certain recent revelations in a comment section out there, their dirtiest work -- at the direction of the Brethren. Perhaps not at the direction of a unified body of Brethren, as we might speculate, but the way they tell it, they've always had the full endorsement of the Church, and continue to do so. Even now, at least one GA appraises them of efforts to pull the plug on the new MI.

Name calling is always bad, but name calling and self-aggrandizement backed by a multi-billion dollar corporate face will always trigger public outrage. Gemli had some pretty good insights to that one day, as the fuming cantankerous cursed the "fake doctors" crowding their sacred comment section.

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:57 am 
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Shulem wrote:
Right. The apologists however are supposed to be Christlike in everything they do and say. They are supposed to be Christians, whatever that is. More is expected of them when it comes to online behavior because they are the ones that say "look at our true church and we have the Spirit". So there you have it. They need to be on their best behavior as they continue to work their way to heaven. Us, on the other hand are going to heaven automatically (assuming there is one) because assuming there is a God he is gracious and loving, nothing like the apologists.


I am very sympathetic to that point of view. Of course, Jesus sometimes seems like a real jerk too. We just have a real saccharine view of him that, for some people, is centered around Jesus the gentle lamb who saved a fly with a broken wing. There is also the angry Jesus who promised to break up families and chased money changers out of the temple. All I am saying here is that it is possible to understand why the apologists feel justified in their very human reaction to attacks on their cherished beliefs.

Shulem wrote:
Life is wonderful. It's so liberating to be free from bondage of the church. It was a nightmare and it's over now but I still have those memories. That sets me off at times, just remembering how I was a slave to that institution. It makes me mad. And yes, when the church tried to stop gay marriage it really made me mad. I'm sure you can understand that. I just can't forgive the church for that and I want to hit back, hard.


Indeed! Yes, I see that. And I hope you don't think I am trying to dump on you personally here. What I am saying is that Smoot is a human being who is upset about the CES Letter and ex-mormon reddit and he wants to hit back. Yes, the LDS Church is the institution he is ultimately defending, but I am sure he also feels that he is defending people who have testimonies, love the Church, and are hurt when people attack it. Smoot imagines that some of these people who end up on ex-mormon reddit could have been happy members of the LDS Church if only they had read the right things and processed them in the right way. He is going to fight that fight, and you and I are not going to like the way he does it.

That's the way it is, and I just want to look at it with clear eyes to the extent that I am able.


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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:14 am 
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Gadianton wrote:
There is just one detail that makes it different for the apologists we cross paths with occasionally. Ultimately, they are connected to the Church leadership at "the highest levels", and have done their work -- and it would seem thanks to certain recent revelations in a comment section out there, their dirtiest work -- at the direction of the Brethren. Perhaps not at the direction of a unified body of Brethren, as we might speculate, but the way they tell it, they've always had the full endorsement of the Church, and continue to do so. Even now, at least one GA appraises them of efforts to pull the plug on the new MI.

Name calling is always bad, but name calling and self-aggrandizement backed by a multi-billion dollar corporate face will always trigger public outrage. Gemli had some pretty good insights to that one day, as the fuming cantankerous cursed the "fake doctors" crowding their sacred comment section.


Yep. I resonate with your perspective on this, Gad. You know, I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could have voted for Trump, and I understand much less how any decent person could continue to support Trump at this point. It is possible, although I do not want it to be true, that some people lack the ability to see the problems with Trump. I don't think that reflects well on them. My opinion.

For the reasons you lay out above, I don't really understand Smoot. That said, there are other ways of looking at this. The Mopologists, you see, are among those who know the GAs as real people who say and do virtuous things. From their perspective, our criticisms of the GAs are baffling in the extreme. We are the carpers, cavilers, and critics of good men. The apologists obviously, by their own admission, do not see the Church as a faceless corporation. They see honorable and lovable grandpa type guys who stand up for helping the poor, doing the right thing, and testifying of Jesus Christ.

So our view is, to them, a monstrous distortion of the truth. Faceless corporation? How could that be? Evil designs to control and suppress others? No! A mission to save all humankind! To lighten the load of the suffering. You and I have it all wrong, Gad. If only we could see the truth, namely, that the LDS Church has the keys, and the authority from God, to save all of the children of God eternally and make them supernally blissful forever.

And you and I are attempting to spoil that. We are hurting good people who are striving for that eternal happiness in God's presence. Just sitting here having this conversation, we endanger some poor soul who clicks on the wrong link after a Google search. What if that person read something here that led them astray, that imperiled their eternal blessings?

If you really believe all of that, then I don't think you will have any compunction about portraying certain apostates as Smoot did in his allegory. And your friends engaged in the same important fight will pat you on the back. And the GAs will support your efforts in whatever way they can, without appearing to punch down themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:30 am 
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Quote:
Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?


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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:05 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Quote:
Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?

He's going to tell their moms that they're being mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:11 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Quote:
Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?


:lol:

Blakyboy is getting mad! Ha ha ha ha!

:lol:

Hey Blakeboy, what's the king's name in Facsimile No. 3?

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:16 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Quote:
Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.


And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?


I know, right? I'd love to know what he meant by that. Good times.

Anyway. I had no idea who Blake T. Ostler was. I mean, how much of a nobody do you have to be to fly under someone's radar who's been actively engaged in Mormon-related topics and apologia since 2001? Literally no idea, so I googled his name and came up with this little gem from the second link:

https://gregkofford.com/blogs/news/auth ... e-t-ostler

Quote:
Q: What began your interest in studying philosophy and theology?

A: I was a young whippersnapper when I ran into Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Persig [sic] who died earlier this year. Because I had raced motorcycles and often rode motorbikes with my Dad, it was the perfect intro to philosophy—and it is still the best-selling book related to philosophy of all time. I was only a Junior in High School student, but for some reason I thought I could tackle Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. I was foolish but did it anyway. I became fascinated with Kant's view that our consciousness depends on an organizational unity and categories that are not present in the things we experience, but that, in effect, we create the unity of consciousness and provide the categories to make sense of our experience and any concepts presented to us.


Admittedly I have no idea who Greg Kofford is, but that's beside the point. What's the deal with these mopologists all having been child prodigies devouring volumes of thick philosophical tomes resulting in polymaths who are never wrong about anything? It's the oddest thing... Psychologically fascinating, really.

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Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Quote:
Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.
Lemmi
And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?


It literally does nothing to entice me to believe Russell M. Nelson is an actual prophet along the lines of the old Jewish ways. It literally does nothing to help me grasp my understanding of scripture is wrong and therefore I ought to believe the interpretations told to me instead of figure them out for myself. It certainly does nothing to convince me to go back and spend so much time in their buildings when the real cathedrals of spiritual renewal are the mountains, and fields of flowers and streams of the earth itself, which renews everyone's spirit regardless of professed religious preference.
So yeah, all this silly tit for tat, back and forth, one upmanship appears to me to be drivvel in the wind. I'd rather be letting my hair fly in the wind hiking the mountains around my house..... :biggrin:

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:23 pm 
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I might add, if he thinks Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is still the best introduction to philosophy and is worth actually believing and attempting to live by its precepts, and I see no reason why he is wrong, then how on God's green earth is he still Mormon??? Because Pirsig's themes are not conjugal with Mormonism much. It is still fresh on my mind, since I just finished reading it last month, and I agree, READ THAT FANTASTIC BOOK!

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Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:23 pm 
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That is one unfortunate looking meltdown.

I've known who he is because some years back his series on Exploring Mormon thought came out and I kinda liked them. I do remember him bragging how he at a young age, or something, read the Summa Theologiae in it's original Latin. But I've never known him otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:43 pm 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
I might add, if he thinks Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is still the best introduction to philosophy and is worth actually believing and attempting to live by its precepts, and I see no reason why he is wrong, then how on God's green earth is he still Mormon??? Because Pirsig's themes are not conjugal with Mormonism much. It is still fresh on my mind, since I just finished reading it last month, and I agree, READ THAT FANTASTIC BOOK!


I remember the moment I realized, as a Mormon, that it was just like scripture to me. I started seeing lines it that really spoke to me. Then I found quotations and started sharing them. Some little ways into it he came up with a line, and I'm not looking it up just going from memory now just to test myself about how close I can get, that essentially said, 'the loudest and most polemic voices in politics or religion are likely those who aren't as sure about their position as they like to portray themselves to be'. I'm probably way off.

It caught me a bit off guard though. It got me really questioning the things that were said in church by leaders, etc. I mean it took a ton of years but perhaps the beginning of the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:54 pm 
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I shouldn't have tried to go by memory.

here's the quote I had in mind:

Quote:
You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:01 pm 
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Stem wrote:
I shouldn't have tried to go by memory.

here's the quote I had in mind:

Quote:
You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt.

Great quote.

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:38 pm 
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Blake Ostler has passed...

quite a few gaseous anomalies ..

Did you think he died!!??? :lol:

Gregg is a book publisher. Great guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:46 pm 
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Damn my comments got deleted. Guess I’m a trouble maker


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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Stem wrote:
Damn my comments got deleted. Guess I’m a trouble maker


I saw a few comments were deleted. I guess Blake pulled some strings over there?

FYI, Blake claims to have found out the true identities of two commenters and is threatening to dox them.

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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:12 pm 
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Exiled wrote:
Stem wrote:
Damn my comments got deleted. Guess I’m a trouble maker


I saw a few comments were deleted. I guess Blake pulled some strings over there?

FYI, Blake claims to have found out the true identities of two commenters and is threatening to dox them.


Blakeboy wrote:
I desire to know identities because I have a deep seated belief in personal accountability for actions. I want to know who says such nasty things and let others know how loathsome some commenting here.truly are. I have already learned 2 identities. One used a vpn but it was easy to crack because they used the same moniker before the vpn. I was not surprised and I think those who deal with them will be quite interested in their conduct and comments here and elsewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:15 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Quote:
Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?


It takes a special kind of stooge to say what Blake just said online. (Evidently smallaxe has since deleted the comment)

If Ostler is claiming to have accessed FPR's site logging data and subsequently cracked a user's VPN in order to (a) ascertain their identity and (b) cause trouble in real life for said persons(s), then it is possible he just admitted to one or more criminal acts.


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