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 Post subject: Church leaves 2 missionaries in path of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:03 am 
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The two full-time missionaries serving on Grand Bahama Island are safe after Hurricane Dorian pummeled the Bahamas, local leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have confirmed.

Elder José L. Alonso, a General Authority Seventy and president of the Church’s Caribbean Area, has been working with President Fred Parker of the Jamaica Kingston Mission and other local leaders to track down information about the missionaries and members in the Bahamas.

“These missionaries currently are at the chapel belonging to the Grand Bahama Branch located in Freeport and providing assistance to members of the branch who have taken refuge there at the Church building, including the branch president and his family,” Elder Alonso said in an email to the Church News. “President Parker is working to gain contact with the U.S. embassy in order to get these two missionaries evacuated.”

https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/20 ... ica-159126

Mr Parker, Mr Alonso, why did you not evacuate them before the hurricane hit?

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Last edited by I have a question on Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in way of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:38 am 
God
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IHAQ, as you know, I follow your posts here religiously, and normally hold a similar viewpoint. In this case however, having experienced several hurricanes including a category 4-5 direct hit*, I can't fault Church leaders for not evacuating the missionaries, provided the following were true:

    1. There was a known safe structure in which to take shelter in an area that was unlikely to flood from excessive rainfall or storm surge.

    2. The congregation with whom the missionaries worked were also encouraged to take shelter there, or had safe places elsewhere to ride out the storm.

    3. Those who intended to ride out the storm in the Church building had made preparations and had adequate hurricane supplies at hand.

    4. There were adults in the group who had experienced a direct hit from a hurricane in the past.

    5. Relatives not in the Bahamas knew what arrangements were being made for the missionaries to ride out the storm and knew the protocols for communication (if any) during and after the storm.

The Bahamas have experienced hurricanes before. It is (or should be) well known which structures could provide adequate safety from hurricane winds, rain and storm surge.

Given the situation, it would have been bad form indeed for the Church to evacuate its missionaries who are supposedly there to be examples of good Christians who teach, care for, and live among their fellow members. There is a lot of good that can be done by able bodied people who are on the ground in the immediate aftermath of a hurricane, especially if they can help with first response rescue, have some first aid skills, and have emergency supplies (especially bottled drinking water) to share with the wider community.

This is not to minimize the severe impact of hurricane Dorian on the people of the Bahamas. There was, and will be, a great deal of hardship because of the storm. However, unlike Katrina and the disaster in New Orleans, the people of the Bahamas had been there before, had a good idea of what was coming, and had plenty of time to prepare. This is reflected in the low death toll from the storm, so far in the single digits, as compared to more than 1,700 from Katrina.
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* During hurricane Wilma (2005 - max sustained winds 185 mph down to about 140 - 150 when it hit us), several Russians from work took shelter in our home. To ease the tension, we went for a swim during the break between the eye walls, then back into the house for the second act. In the aftermath it took a full day to cut up the downed trees so we could get cars out of our neighborhood. For several days our neighborhood lived on food from the defrosting freezers that was prepared on outdoor community BBQ grills. Power was not restored for nearly two weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in way of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:28 am 
God

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The Stake Presidents wife posted this on 2nd September:
Quote:
Update: Nassau all missionaries moved out, 2-Turks, 4- Cayman & 2 Freeport we are aware of monster Dorian. Pray for our 2 in Freeport till we get them out <snip> #BahamaStrong

https://www.Facebook.com/groups/234689250658976/

DrW wrote:
Given the situation, it would have been bad form indeed for the Church to evacuate its missionaries who are supposedly there to be examples of good Christians who teach, care for, and live among their fellow members. There is a lot of good that can be done by able bodied people who are on the ground in the immediate aftermath of a hurricane, especially if they can help with first response rescue, have some first aid skills, and have emergency supplies (especially bottled drinking water) to share with the wider community.

It seems the Church fully intended evacuating its missionary force before the hurricane struck, but failed with two of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in way of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:17 am 
Son of Perdition
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There are a couple of LDS chapels on Grand Bahama at Freeport. It will be interesting to learn about damage due to sustained winds and flooding.

Well folks, I suppose, just maybe, we will get to hear all about the MIRACLE stories from the stranded missionaries and the MIRACLES experienced by the members of the church who survived.

But what of any members who drowned and their homes that were washed away? No miracles there!

Just watch Mormon propaganda toot their MIRACLE horns in the coming days. Woo hoo! Are you ready to go back to church all you unbelieving apostates? It's a miracle!

:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in way of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:01 am 
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I have a question wrote:
It seems the Church fully intended evacuating its missionary force before the hurricane struck, but failed with two of them.

Certainly looks as though the the pre-conditions mentioned in my post above were not met. Therefore, I would agree that those Church leaders responsible failed in their duty regarding the two missionaries left in the Bahamas during the hurricane.

(I'm guessing that those responsible don't view their failure as a problem, though. After all, they did make a request for thoughts and prayers for the two left behind, so that should make everything all right.)

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in way of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:31 pm 
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I have a question wrote:
Quote:
The two full-time missionaries serving on Grand Bahama Island are safe after Hurricane Dorian pummeled the Bahamas, local leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have confirmed.

Elder José L. Alonso, a General Authority Seventy and president of the Church’s Caribbean Area, has been working with President Fred Parker of the Jamaica Kingston Mission and other local leaders to track down information about the missionaries and members in the Bahamas.

“These missionaries currently are at the chapel belonging to the Grand Bahama Branch located in Freeport and providing assistance to members of the branch who have taken refuge there at the Church building, including the branch president and his family,” Elder Alonso said in an email to the Church News. “President Parker is working to gain contact with the U.S. embassy in order to get these two missionaries evacuated.”

https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/20 ... ica-159126

Mr Parker, Mr Alonso, why did you not evacuate them before the hurricane hit?


Hi, old friend. It seems that missionaries are expendable. I think they did that in Fiji's and Vanuatu's cyclones, as well. They are unpaid volunteers whose parents pay their expenses (very little expense for the church). A few lost missionaries can be easily replaced. When fighting for the Lord, casualties can be expected.

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in way of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:51 am 
God

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Quote:
FREEPORT, Bahamas — The ground crunched under Greg Alem’s feet on Wednesday as he walked over the ruins of his home, laid waste by Hurricane Dorian. He touched a splintered beam of wood and pointed to the fallen trees, overcome by memories.

”We planted those trees ourselves. Everything has a memory, you know,” he said. “It’s so, so sad. ... In the Bible there is a person called Job, and I feel like Job right now. He’s lost everything, but his faith kept him strong.”

https://www.deseret.com/2019/9/4/208503 ... ed-bahamas
Quote:
In one community, George Bolter stood in the bright sunshine and surveyed the ruins of what was once his home. He picked at the debris, trying to find something, anything, salvageable. A couple of walls were the only thing left.

”I have lost everything,” he said. “I have lost all my baby’s clothes, my son’s clothes. We have nowhere to stay, nowhere to live. Everything is gone.”

Quote:
Londa Sawyer stepped off a helicopter in Nassau, the capital, with her two children and two dogs after being rescued from Marsh Harbor in the Abaco islands.

”I’m just thankful I’m alive,” she said. “The Lord saved me.”
Did He?
Quote:
Sawyer said that her home was completely flooded and that she and her family fled to a friend’s home, where the water came up to the second floor and carried them up to within a few feet of the roof. She said she and her children and the dogs were floating on a mattress for about half an hour until the water began receding.
Sounds to me like your friends, a mattress and the rescue helicopter team saved you.
Quote:
Bahamian Health Minister Duane Sands said 17 of the dead were from the Abaco islands and three from Grand Bahama. He said he could not release further details because the government still had to contact family members.
I guess the Lord was a bit too busy elsewhere, or maybe they didn't pray right.
Quote:
On Tybee Island, Georgia, Debbie and Tony Pagan stacked their beds and couches atop other furniture and covered their doors with plastic wrap and sandbags before evacuating. Their home flooded during both Hurricane Matthew in 2016 and Irma in 2017.

”It’s a terrible way to live,” Debbie Pagan said. “We have the whole month of September and October to go. How would you like to be living on pins and needles?”
I know the Lord keeps letting your home be flooded, year after year, but...pay your tithing, that's the ticket.

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“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')


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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in way of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:53 am 
God

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Quasimodo wrote:
Hi, old friend. It seems that missionaries are expendable. I think they did that in Fiji's and Vanuatu's cyclones, as well. They are unpaid volunteers whose parents pay their expenses (very little expense for the church). A few lost missionaries can be easily replaced. When fighting for the Lord, casualties can be expected.
Have you noticed how the Mission Presidents and Area Seventies are always out of harms way? Perhaps they are more faithful than the missionaries...There's a thread on here somewhere where I quote (I think) Elder Rasband instructing Mission Presidents and their wives to look after themselves first.

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in path of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Looks as though a retraction is in order for some of my comments upthread.

Clearly the difference in level of risk associated with riding out a relatively fast moving category 4 hurricane in a built up area, well inland, protected by structures constructed to strict hurricane building codes, is in no way comparable to the risk of riding out a category 5 hurricane that is near stationary in a low lying, storm surge prone area, with structures not built to withstand high winds.

The devastation on the Abaco barrier islands from Dorian is simply unimaginable here on the mainland.

At least I can report that the outpouring of support for the Bahamas from the Coast Guard, Red Cross, other NGOs, and ordinary citizens here in South Florida appears unprecedented.

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in path of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:52 pm 
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DrW wrote:
Looks as though a retraction is in order for some of my comments upthread.


I think so.

The danger and risk of hanging around with a Category 5 storm approaching is too great. Flee for your life!

Imagine your own son or daughter serving as a missionary under those conditions. I don't think any parent would want to have their child assume that kind of risk if there is an opportunity to evacuate to safety.

Freeport got very lucky in which the storm turned north just as it was approaching from a long westward track. They got very lucky. Maybe the prayers helped? I don't know. I hope the missionaries are safe. I hope their chapel is undamaged. I wish them all well.

Evil Shulem

:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in way of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:32 pm 
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I have a question wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:
Hi, old friend. It seems that missionaries are expendable. I think they did that in Fiji's and Vanuatu's cyclones, as well. They are unpaid volunteers whose parents pay their expenses (very little expense for the church). A few lost missionaries can be easily replaced. When fighting for the Lord, casualties can be expected.
Have you noticed how the Mission Presidents and Area Seventies are always out of harms way? Perhaps they are more faithful than the missionaries...There's a thread on here somewhere where I quote (I think) Elder Rasband instructing Mission Presidents and their wives to look after themselves first.


Mission Presidents and Area Seventies have cleverly decided that Mission Presidents and Area Seventies are NOT expendable. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in path of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:16 pm 
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Was there an LDS branch on the Abaco islands?

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in path of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:28 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Was there an LDS branch on the Abaco islands?


If there was it ain't there no more.

I'm sure the saints in those beautiful islands have received all kinds of promises and blessings from the hands of general authorities over the past few years. I'm sure they've been told how the church will continue to grow and that the Lord will bless them in this special part of the vineyard. I'm sure the leaders of the church assured them that they were being watched over and that the Lord would bless and protect them, just like the poor saints in Puerto Rico. Same old ____.

But here we see that the Lord doesn't honor the promises that spew out of the mouths of his leaders so he sends these storms to punish the people because they are less righteous. That must be it.

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 Post subject: Re: Church leaves 2 missionaries in path of Hurricane Dorian
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:25 am 
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Quote:
The two full-time missionaries serving in Freeport evacuated Grand Bahama Island via cruise ship and arrived safely in Jamaica, confirmed President Tony Parker of the Jamaica Kingston Mission.

Elder Benjamin Jewkes and Elder Brigham Richardson joined more than a thousand Bahamians on a cruise ship operated by the Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line and arrived in Palm Beach, Florida on Sept. 7. The cruise line offered free passage to the U.S. and returned to the islands with humanitarian aid, several news outlets have reported.

From Florida, the two missionaries flew back to mission boundaries in Kingston, Jamaica. They are now serving in new companionships in Jamaica. The elders were unable to evacuate prior to the storm because the airport on Grand Bahama Island closed.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/20 ... ies-159898
When did the airport close?

Quote:
“Most of the members of the Church here on Grand Bahama Island do not have the resources to evacuate. Therefore, they are staying put,” President Parker said in an email. “All of the members who lived in Abaco have evacuated to the U.S. and are staying with family.”
The Church has the resources to hold a $32 billion stock portfolio, to build from liquid funds a $1.5 billion upmarket shopping complex, a $100 million + ostentatious temple complex in Rome, plus $100’s of millions each year on temples around the world, plus many millions of dollars on first class foreign travel for Church Leaders and their entourages, but hasn’t got the resources to evacuate impoverished and homeless tithe-paying members in the Bahama’s?

What does Jesus want Church funds to be used for if not directly assisting members like these?

Shocking.

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