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 Post subject: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:05 am 
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Gadianton created a fine thread titled The untenable Mormon afterlife.

Since it touched on Mormon afterlife I wanted to share some of my thoughts on the topic, but I didn't want to use my different twist and derail so....new thread.

As I look back and consider my memories of Mormonism I am haunted by the pain and discomfort I had with Mormon afterlife. It was told me when I was young that most people will end up in the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdoms. That they will be happy where they end up because it's what they chose and they wouldn't be happy if they were exalted...because, well they knew they didn't' deserve it, or some such crap. That was mixed with a lot of warnings suggesting if I don't do things correctly, then I'd likely end up in a lower kingdom. But I could also, since I was given the benefit of Mormonism, end up being dragged down to hell (and I believe that meant real hell, the fire and brimstone kind, as opposed to the kind of hell that eternal telestial folks end up living in). Oh that's right, the lower kingdoms (terrestrial and telestial) were a kind of hell too. So while the people there were most happy "where they ended up", they were also relegated to a kind of hell because they wouldn't be able to increase--and being able to increase is godlike, God's always been increasing. And they would be left to wonder what might have been for eternity. That's their hell too, you know--that feeling of "if only I was born a Mormon in the 20th century, rather than a Polynesian in the 13th", or "I wish I didn't think Mormonism sounded so goofy with their polygamy and their need to believe some American dude did magic stuff..if only".

all right, take that as a setting the stage a bit.

I decided at some point I too wouldn't be happy living a celestial life exalted above others, particularly since the main difference between us was nothing but arbitrariness. I must be a terrestrial or telestial type. As that seeming reality was hitting me I felt the sting of pointlessness to the pious efforts of my fellow church goers. Ugghhh...the drab lameness of church sunk in. People were actually talking to each other about how they were blessed above others (of course masked in other language) and that others were fools for not embracing the weird Mormon philosophy (and as Gadianton's thread makes clear Mormons are so fast and loose about their philosophy there really isn't anything there anyway, not anything consistent). It all became a game of achieving a feeling of being elite. I thought I was fighting the game for the true purpose of life...somehow--toughing it out for God.

I was pissed that the average person going to church couldn't share the welfare of their souls in a church setting nor anywhere. If you wanted or felt the need to be in you had to just repeat platitudes, smile and pretend. For the sake of protecting the institution, or whatever. "It's better to pretend so no one else feels confused or start to question", okay, maybe not an exact quote, more like, "you don't know more than the prophet and he says "blah blah blah blah" so we know you are just being influenced by satan", all right not exactly a quote, but it's gotta be close. I was pissed about that lack of thought and effort for each other and I was frustrated by the stupid messages coming from the general leaders.

I soon decided fear was the only motivation every ran on. I offered questions or ideas only to see fear and concern spread across my fellow church goers, inevitably with someone or many try and steer it back to traditional well-established talking points. The leaders would say something like, "questions are good. But, we have to be careful not to criticize or let our questions trouble so much we let them affect our testimonies". it was always a dead end to talk about anything. The only thing that really mattered was getting to exaltation. That seemed to be the only truth that mattered. Everything else was nonsense and the devil trying to confuse us. The only thing that ever mattered was one day we'd be exalted on the pedestal above everyone else.

That, I'd suggest, is hell.


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:09 am 
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Stem wrote:
I decided at some point I too wouldn't be happy living a celestial life exalted above others, particularly since the main difference between us was nothing but arbitrariness.

If this is true, is it also true within the realm of existing/living human beings on this planet as we observe it's history, societies, cultures, etc? Or are things a bit more complex and/or nuanced? Is there something more than mere arbitrariness going on in the here and now that provides for the distinctions between human beings? Anything having to do with choices/actions and behaviors?

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:19 am 
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If you really step back and look at the big picture of the plan of salvation, God appears to be a superhuman-bureaucrat. It is all about checking off the boxes, following the processes, signing the right papers (never mind if any of this actually improves your moral reasoning; that's a secondary concern at best).

As a guy who hates unnecessary processes, it does seem like Hell. If the CK is anything like the church experience, why would I want to go there? Why would I want to be a God-bureaucrat-in-training?

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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:51 am 
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fetchface wrote:
If you really step back and look at the big picture of the plan of salvation, God appears to be a superhuman-bureaucrat. It is all about checking off the boxes, following the processes, signing the right papers (never mind if any of this actually improves your moral reasoning; that's a secondary concern at best).

As a guy who hates unnecessary processes, it does seem like Hell. If the CK is anything like the church experience, why would I want to go there? Why would I want to be a God-bureaucrat-in-training?


The Plan of Salvation is a process, granted. The checking of boxes...baptism, ordinations, temple,etc., simply act as mile markers along the way to show progress along the path. That path includes/consists of everyday actions, behaviors, and choices. Stem seems to be saying that any sort of division of responsibility and/or placement in the afterlife is completely arbitrary. I'm suggesting that there might be more to it.

You ask the question in regards to why would a person want to go one place or another? That's a good question. One that we each have to struggle with and then determine what floats our boat in the here and now and in a possible hereafter.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:15 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Stem wrote:
I decided at some point I too wouldn't be happy living a celestial life exalted above others, particularly since the main difference between us was nothing but arbitrariness.

If this is true, is it also true within the realm of existing/living human beings on this planet as we observe it's history, societies, cultures, etc? Or are things a bit more complex and/or nuanced? Is there something more than mere arbitrariness going on in the here and now that provides for the distinctions between human beings? Anything having to do with choices/actions and behaviors?

Regards,
MG


I think so. What makes a psychopath? Did God make them that way (as in is it a state of being in mortality because God knows these people and knows what they need? or are they such eternally?


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:41 am 
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Reflecting a little more on this, I'm truly astounded at how little the plan of salvation/Mormon theology emphasizes real moral reasoning. I don't make the claim that Mormon God is 99% bureaucrat lightly.

This really hit me a few years ago when I read an excerpt of a children's book on moral reasoning written by Dan Barker, who was taking a secular approach to teaching morality. He laid out some moral principles that one might have like 'don't kill' and 'prevent suffering when possible.' Then he laid out an example of a child who has a dog that is suffering intensely and near death and discusses how the decision of whether or not to put the dog to sleep would be a very difficult decision since it is not possible to keep both principles. Therefore, the process of moral reasoning is not just making a list of moral principles and trying to never violate any principle, it is thinking about the relative importance of moral principles and what we would do if we are presented with situations that force us to violate one or more of them.

Two things struck me when I read this:

1. This was an accurate basic description of how I had reasoned all my life, without realizing it or having a clear understanding of what I was doing. However, I was still feeling guilty for violating the less important moral principles in situations that required it. Once I read Barker's explanation, things clicked and I realized that it was stupid to feel guilty after making the best possible choice.

2. The church was in charge of my moral education for 32 years and never presented these basic concepts in a clear way like evil Dan Barker. I mean, maybe I deserve some blame for being slow to come to these basic realizations, but I do think that the LDS church or Mormon God is negligent when it comes to teaching basic moral reasoning in a clear way. They spend a lot of time teaching a bureaucratic view of morality. Check off the boxes, file the forms on time, do service by helping others check off boxes and file forms (temple work). Just keep checking off boxes and eventually you'll be the head bureaucrat and you'll be the one who is receiving the forms! Yay! Oh, and (afterthought) try to be kind and help those in need while you serve the eternal bureaucracy. Mormon morality in a nutshell.

One thing I wonder about is whether it is an accident that the church is so bad at teaching morality. The 'checklist morality' mindset that they encourage I think leaves even the best people feeling guilty, which is to the church's advantage because it makes even the best feel inadequate and like they have to give more somehow.

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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:43 am 
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MG wrote:
Stem wrote:
I decided at some point I too wouldn't be happy living a celestial life exalted above others, particularly since the main difference between us was nothing but arbitrariness.

If this is true, is it also true within the realm of existing/living human beings on this planet as we observe it's history, societies, cultures, etc? Or are things a bit more complex and/or nuanced? Is there something more than mere arbitrariness going on in the here and now that provides for the distinctions between human beings? Anything having to do with choices/actions and behaviors?


Stem wrote:
I think so.


So we might agree that there is something more going on than mere arbitrary placement in a possible hereafter. It may be a rather complex set of variables that are in play.

Stem wrote:
What makes a psychopath? Did God make them that way (as in is it a state of being in mortality because God knows these people and knows what they need? or are they such eternally?


Let's hope that this is not a state of eternal being. Now THAT would be hell.

This same question could be asked in regards to a number of other maladies that humans are subject to in this life. Such as:

• Schizophrenic, paranoid, and other psychotic disorders

• Affective disorders

• Mental retardation

• Anxiety-related disorders

• Somatoform disorders

• Personality disorders

• Substance disorders

• Autistic and other pervasive developmental disorders

How does God sort that all out? Great question. Don't have an answer for you except to say that I'm happy and willing to let God be the one to sort things out. When all is said and done, however, I am a doubting Thomas as to any of these maladies, along with many others, resulting in an eternal handicap. Whether or not any of these handicaps somehow act as a catalyst towards eternal growth in some form or fashion, who knows? But I suppose that's a possibility.

And truth be told, don't we all have some sort/degree of handicap and/or set of trials that we have to deal with? How do those impact any sort of placement or degree of progress in a hoped for afterlife?

Your original comment in regards to an afterlife being the the result of a seemingly random or by chance set of circumstances or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will associated with God seems rather thin.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:55 am 
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fetchface wrote:
One thing I wonder about is whether it is an accident that the church is so bad at teaching morality.


I find it interesting that we find ourselves viewing the teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ so differently. This year as members are moving through the Come Follow Me curriculum we are spending a LOT of time discussing moral/righteous behavior and choices as we are using the gospels to learn the morality/teachings of Jesus and His disciples and how those teachings apply to us in our daily lives and our own moral behavior/choices.

I don't quite get what you're saying. I mean, hey, there is a whole curriculum that we're plowing our way through at church to inculcate the morality of Jesus Christ into our lives and those that we love.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:09 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
So we might agree that there is something more going on than mere arbitrary placement in a possible hereafter. It may be a rather complex set of variables that are in play.


No. not really. My "I think so" was meant to be in response to this question of yours: "If this is true, is it also true within the realm of existing/living human beings on this planet as we observe it's history, societies, cultures, etc?"

And not the others.

Quote:
Stem wrote:
What makes a psychopath? Did God make them that way (as in is it a state of being in mortality because God knows these people and knows what they need? or are they such eternally?


Let's hope that this is not a state of eternal being. Now THAT would be hell.


So if Mormonism carries truth it is one or the other. Either certain people have certain maladies because God gave them to them or they are eternally stuck with them because it is who they are, no? if God made someone a psychopath, for their own benefit, what benefit would that be? If that person is just eternally a psychopath, what was God thinking in sending them here, or in other words granting them a pass for their first estate? "well I need some psychos down there, might as well let them sneak through and randomly place them".

Quote:
This same question could be asked in regards to a number of other maladies that humans are subject to in this life. Such as:

• Schizophrenic, paranoid, and other psychotic disorders

• Affective disorders

• Mental retardation

• Anxiety-related disorders

• Somatoform disorders

• Personality disorders

• Substance disorders

• Autistic and other pervasive developmental disorders

How does God sort that all out? Great question. Don't have an answer for you except to say that I'm happy and willing to let God be the one to sort things out. When all is said and done, however, I am a doubting Thomas as to any of these maladies, along with many others, resulting in an eternal handicap. Whether or not any of these handicaps somehow act as a catalyst towards eternal growth in some form or fashion, who knows? But I suppose that's a possibility.


Sure, and I don't care. It used to be that Mormons would most often teach, as I recall, that those who killed themselves ended their chance at exaltation or anything near it. Now that teaching has seemingly been replaced with a "well we don't really know. God'll sort it all out". Fine. The trouble is outside "maladies" as you call them, what will cause one man to be exalted while another is sent to Telestial? "well, the telestial soul really only wants to be there. while the exalted soul loves to feel exalted above the others. God just sticks us were we want."

It seems silly, at the very least to see it that way.

Quote:
And truth be told, don't we all have some sort/degree of handicap and/or set of trials that we have to deal with? How do those impact any sort of placement or degree of progress in a hoped for afterlife?

Your original comment in regards to an afterlife being the the result of a seemingly random or by chance set of circumstances or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will associated with God seems rather thin.

Regards,
MG


It seems like that is all it is to me, even after your "I don't know" response. God saved you for these last days because you were so valiant in your testimony in the world before this, apparently. well what elements of your soul's composition gave you a blessed life and what elements are at the bottom of the guy who lived centuries before... was in pain during his short life and was eaten by his neighbor? you may say "well God knows what he's doing and will sort it out, and loves us all, and wants the best for us so he gives us our weaknesses and situations to best work us out. But rest assured he saved me and my peeps for this last day because we were so valiant. But it's really how we live our lives here that determine our eternal reward. you see, the guy who had a horrible life, could have still been happy. He could have smelled the flowers and tasted something good enough. I mean it's not my fault he wasn't of the valiant type before the world was. So while our life here determines our eternal destinations, our life before here determines our life here and our situation here greatly enhances our life in the hereafter. Isn't it so beautiful? Some of us are just made better than others..or whatever."


Last edited by Stem on Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:10 pm 
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fetchface wrote:
If you really step back and look at the big picture of the plan of salvation, God appears to be a superhuman-bureaucrat. It is all about checking off the boxes, following the processes, signing the right papers (never mind if any of this actually improves your moral reasoning; that's a secondary concern at best).

As a guy who hates unnecessary processes, it does seem like Hell. If the CK is anything like the church experience, why would I want to go there? Why would I want to be a God-bureaucrat-in-training?


yep. All the really matters, it seems to me, taking Mormonism seriously is whether we tick off a few boxes here or there. The truth is ticking off those boxes for nothing else really matters.


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Stem wrote:

Sure, and I don't care.


That's of no real consequence, to be rather blunt. What matters is if whether or not God cares. If He does, that makes ALL the difference. I don't think we are fully able to give credit to where credit is due. God can make things happen...in the macro/eternal state of things, even when sh** happens...in the micro state of things here on earth. Like the song says, "He's got the whole wide world in His hands."

I guess that's where faith comes into play.

We do live in a fallen world where psychopaths are among us along with maladies of every kind. If that isn't opposition in all things, what is? To think that God doesn't have a workaround for this...including the eternal state of the psychopath...isn't giving God his due as the creator of the universe and all that is in it.

Sadly, there are those that throw the label of psychopath on God because He doesn't fit the bill according to their limited understanding of the world and its purpose. That's the beauty of the Church and the Gospel of Jesus Christ...this purpose is laid out fairly, if not completely, for all to see...if they have ears to hear and eyes to see.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:16 pm 
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Stem wrote:
...[people have] certain maladies because God gave them to them or they are eternally stuck with them because it is who they are, no?


I don't think so. The teachings in the New Testament seem to point us away from this heinous doctrine/teaching.

I do believe that the Apostle Paul was right on when he said:

Quote:
[God] hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.


and

Quote:
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.


and

Quote:
And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.


Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:19 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
...if they have ears to hear and eyes to see.

Regards,
MG


Everyone does or should, well aside from the "maladies" of blindness and deafness. The problem often is when people see or hear they are from the outside looking in at weirdo folks telling everyone they are favored in the eternities, due to arbitrariness.

"well it's not arbitrary. God knows what he's doing. He works it all out in the end, so there is something more going on then arbitrary."

Uh ok. There's really nothing in that but emptiness and claim.

"well God loves everyone, and he's no psychopath and the people that are psychopaths are here because GOd needs opposition in all things."

all right I"m glad you can repeat that which you've been told, at least.


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:22 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Stem wrote:
...[people have] certain maladies because God gave them to them or they are eternally stuck with them because it is who they are, no?


I don't think so. The teachings in the New Testament seem to point us away from this heinous doctrine/teaching.

I do believe that the Apostle Paul was right on when he said:

Quote:
[God] hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.


and

Quote:
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.


and

Quote:
And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.


Regards,
MG


So outside of 1. God gave them these trials to help bless them or because of their individual needs or 2. it is simply part of who they are eternally. what other possibility are you saying there is?


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Stem wrote:
...if God made someone a psychopath, for their own benefit, what benefit would that be? If that person is just eternally a psychopath...


Stem, we live in a world that is controlled by genetics and mutation, environment, culture, and what have you. You're talking as though God is micro managing everything. There is a difference between macro and micro. You get that, I'm sure. God, in my opinion, is looking at...and planning for...the BIG picture. Don't you think that He is well aware of all the psychos running around messing things up?

And that He's got a plan that includes the messiness and the fact that everything isn't perfect in this world? You do remember learning that we are living in a Telestial world, right? Would that not include psychopaths and all of the other maladies we see all around us?

I think God has a way to save the psychopath (and those that are subject to the maladies listed in my bullet points) in the eternal scheme of things. Just like He has a way to save you or me. The toss of the dice, however, gives you and me a greater degree of freedom to choose.

Why not take advantage of that? Afterall, where more is given more IS expected. Are we/you living up to that?

Why toss the dice and/or the way the cards were dealt away simply because YOU don't believe it to be fair? Give God some credit. :wink:

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:34 pm 
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Ah, MG’s all powerful/all powerless God that is helpless to prevent human suffering MUST have a workaround for mental illness because MG cannot imagine it any other way.

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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Stem wrote:

"well God loves everyone, and he's no psychopath and the people that are psychopaths are here because GOd needs opposition in all things."


I don't think I said it quite this way. There is opposition in all things. But I don't think God needs it.

We do.

So He did engage with a plan that would provide a way for that opposition...which we need...to be part and parcel of the way the world works. And there ain't any way you can get around the fact that the world does work that way. :wink:

And that opposition can provide a path for growth. The downside is that opposition wreaks a lot of havoc and misery. Micro and macro.

But I believe that God, He being who He is, has a plan/workaround to surmount this. We refer to it as the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Without the doctrine/teachings associated with the Atonement I think that I would be pretty much on the same page as you and others that are unwilling to give God the benefit of a doubt that He can carry out a plan of eternal happiness and joy for all of His children.

What brings that happiness and joy will vary from person to person...just as it does here. Why some are placed and/or fall into one position vs. another while here on earth is in the hands of God. I do believe, however, that if we find out that the cards are stacked one way or the other such as to provide us with a greater ability to serve and bring others to Christ and His goodness, we ought to hop on board the train and ride it. :smile:

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:52 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:

Stem, we live in a world that is controlled by genetics and mutation, environment, culture, and what have you. You're talking as though God is micro managing everything.


yes for the sake of laying out my criticism I'm assuming Mormonism. "need to find your keys anyone? well pray to me and I'll uncover their sneaky whereabouts."

Quote:
There is a difference between macro and micro. You get that, I'm sure. God, in my opinion, is looking at...and planning for...the BIG picture. Don't you think that He is well aware of all the psychos running around messing things up?


He surely must be. He knew about the deceit of Judas after all. He knew that the deceit had to happen and that after the plot was uncovered he'd go and kill himself (which brings us back to the old Mormon view of suicide ending one's possibility for celestial life).

Quote:
And that He's got a plan that includes the messiness and the fact that everything isn't perfect in this world? You do remember learning that we are living in a Telestial world, right? Would that not include psychopaths and all of the other maladies we see all around us?


Yes God's plan appears to be--there is a mess of tons of people. I have to get 2/3rds of them to the earth, and most of those will get some form of benefit, even if most of those benefiters will also get some sort of hell too. Some of these 2/3rds I know are valiant so I have to give them benefit over all the others and some of those most valiant will end up with me....right where they want to be. the others don't really want to be with me because well I see they aren't very valiant already. So I'll situate them so they won't end up with me, but will end up with some form of benefit on top of some level of hell.

Quote:
I think God has a way to save the psychopath (and those that are subject to the maladies listed in my bullet points) in the eternal scheme of things. Just like He has a way to save you or me. The toss of the dice, however, gives you and me a greater degree of freedom to choose.


Yes. The arbitrariness gives some benefit over another. But your thinking that God saves the psychopath seems odd. Who does God reserve for OUTER DARKNESS? Is it not possible or even likely that some psychopaths are heading to the real live hell and thus won't be saved? They might be among those for whom it was better they were never born. I mean possible, right? But, it appears you think God will just save those who have certain maladies. I think that's a church teaching too--like the mentally ill, or those who die before the age of accountability. Yiptey….he saves them all if we're talking about those who inherit a kingdom of heaven.

Quote:
Why not take advantage of that? Afterall, where more is given more IS expected. Are we/you living up to that?


Me? Well because it sounds like misery and a case of supporting eternal misery. As it is if I were exalted in Mormonism I don't know that I'd be any less miserable than the devil. The pains of watching everyone else suffer seems like misery to me.

Quote:
Why toss the dice and/or the way the cards were dealt away simply because YOU don't believe it to be fair? Give God some credit. :wink:

Regards,
MG


That's the problem, of course. Give him credit for what? For delivering misery? How do we know we are better off coming to earth? We already know for some of us it was better we never came at all.


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:57 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
Ah, MG’s all powerful/all powerless God that is helpless to prevent human suffering MUST have a workaround for mental illness because MG cannot imagine it any other way.


Mental illness exists in the world. If God exists, He has a workaround. It is literally THAT simple.

Now, if God doesn't exist...where's the party tonight? :wink:

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:08 pm 
God
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:48 pm
Posts: 2764
I like to view the Mormon God as a mob boss. Pay up da 10% or you'll be sleepin with da fishes in the TK.

_________________
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 


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 Post subject: Re: The hell of Mormon afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:10 pm 
God

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm
Posts: 1049
mentalgymnast wrote:

What brings that happiness and joy will vary from person to person...just as it does here. Why some are placed and/or fall into one position vs. another while here on earth is in the hands of God. I do believe, however, that if we find out that the cards are stacked one way or the other such as to provide us with a greater ability to serve and bring others to Christ and His goodness, we ought to hop on board the train and ride it. :smile:

Regards,
MG


I took the ride and got bored and got off. All the benefits for me were only benefits in light of Mormonism. That is to say, things like the holy ghost weren't a Mormon thing. Everyone experienced the same spirit, delight, and feelings as the Mormon. There was no actual benefit. It was simply attaching a name to a benefit that everyone enjoyed or potentially enjoyed and said it was unique to Mormons. But I will add if there is any particular benefit given to Mormons, then good for them. I don't think I'd want it anyway.

God is said to mourn for those who decide not the believe. If so, God's mourning might be forever, as people will always be as new worlds come and go, and he'll have to cry as always when he gets upset that the people weren't doing the faithful thing. Perhaps he'll get so upset and wipe ''em out with a flood or competing nation or army, as his anger gets all kindled at the fools who don't know him. Even in the end he'll apparently exclaim to many a presumed believer that they really didn't know him and they'll be sent to their own hells. Maybe he feels good and his upsetness and anger is just affectation. Maybe he doesn't care at all. I suppose if I'm somehow turned around and find myself sitting on his right side watching others hurting while god fakes getting upset and angry at them, only to not really care...well, that sounds hellish to me.

I mean any way you slice it it sounds like hell. But for those who want to be above the others...well, I suppose it's made for you.


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