It is currently Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:54 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 188 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:59 pm 
Endowed Chair of Historical Innovation
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:19 pm
Posts: 256
Location: HSB 201
Whew! Dean Robbers, and Doc, I was about to type a thoughtful, lengthy response, but have four lectures tonight and a red eye to catch for “donor meetings” tomorrow. Thanks for your thoughts. Much to think about!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:08 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 8990
Dr Moore wrote:
Whew! Dean Robbers, and Doc, I was about to type a thoughtful, lengthy response, but have four lectures tonight and a red eye to catch for “donor meetings” tomorrow. Thanks for your thoughts. Much to think about!

:rolleyes:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:13 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:38 am
Posts: 1380
As a person who thinks that Obedience, Inc. (oops, I mean the LDS church) couldn't vanish from the earth soon enough, I don't know why we would want to discourage these guys from being petty assholes. I can't overstate how effective this type of behavior was at turning me off to the church when I was losing my faith and really digging into the questions that bothered me. This kind of vitriol screams insecurity (this is the best the church has got!?!?!). I believe that these guys are at least an order of magnitude more effective as anti-Mormons as everyone on this board.

They truly are doing Satan's work in one of the most effective ways imaginable. Let them do it.

_________________
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My Blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:30 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:44 am
Posts: 7458
Location: Cassius University
It may be useful to review the terms that were laid out by Dr. Moore:

Quote:
Shall we agree that the $10k is in your hands to distribute to worthy causes on fulfillment of the following terms?

1. No derogatory mention of Dr. Shades board, or its members, through end of Feb. 2020. By yourself, and as host of this site, by your good faith effort to moderate such comments by others here.

2. Nothing in the deal limits your range to express conviction on and debate issues of interest.

Dr. Moore


The terms were established on September 1st. So, you really would need to look at 2 1/2 weeks' worth of material from Kiwi, Midgley, et al. to know whether or not the deal has been honored. Just glancing at Stocks's thread on Midgley, it seems fairly obvious to me what the answer is--FWIW.

_________________
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:32 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19095
Dr Moore wrote:
Whew! Dean Robbers, and Doc, I was about to type a thoughtful, lengthy response, but have four lectures tonight and a red eye to catch for “donor meetings” tomorrow. Thanks for your thoughts. Much to think about!


Hi Dr. Moore,

I know I don't personally require any sort of justification on your part. I just want you to be aware that references to this board have been made since your deal was enacted. Mr. Peterson moderates his blog pretty tightly, so I find it virtually impossible that he isn't aware of his friends' posting habits.

- Doc

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:45 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:19 pm
Posts: 12047
Location: Multiverse
Fanatics love to think they're persecuted. This board represents "persecution" to these "Mormon scholars" and so they can imagine themselves in some great cosmic battle that elevates them to the status of superheroes. :lol: :lol: :lol: Keyboard Kommandos battling the Dark Lord and his zombie hordes.

Ridiculous? No more than the rest of what passes for scholarship among hillbilly occultists in funny underwear. :lol: There is no fount of absurdity in American life to equal Mormonism. It's the Old Faithful of Stupid. :cool:

_________________
When a master has a Negro and uses him well, he is much better off than if he was free.-Brigham Young


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:17 am 
Savior (mortal ministry)
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:38 pm
Posts: 924
What is "mention"? I could undertake not to make derogatory mention of Donald Trump, but then immediately after my audience has learned the details of my undertaking, begin trash talking "The Buffoon". I'm just talking about someone who happens to be a real buffoon, never mind whom. If you think the things I've said have any bearing on Trump, well then you're the one denigrating the man. Wink wink wink. Oh drat I've got something in my eye. Wink.

So they may claim that they've cleverly obeyed the letter of the agreement while thumbing their nose at its spirit. The way I see it, though, this was never an enforceable contract, and everyone knew that. If somebody's making a voluntary offer of a large donation then either you respect the spirit of their conditions or you don't count on getting the money. And what was the spirit of the conditions in this case? Nothing but common courtesy and refraining from insult, which should be no great effort for adults even without any inducement at all.

Yet even for ten thousand bucks the most they were willing—or able—to do was to substitute "the sty" for "the Shades board". They were not willing—or not able—to refrain from insult, not even for ten thousand dollars to Interpreter.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:29 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19095
Lol. He just can’t help himself.

Quote:
My reports on the plays that we attend – and I sometimes forget altogether to mention them, so there are at least a few more on which I haven’t reported – have drawn derision in some predictable quarters. Supposedly, I believe that the Church is true because I attend a lot of plays, or something like that. Maybe the argument is really that, because I see a fair amount of theater I imagine myself to be a very sophisticated fellow, and that my claimed sophistication (in my mind, at least) lends special authority to my conviction that the claims of the Restoration are true.


Hopefully Mr. Peterson’s obsession with this board doesn’t cost his charities 10 grand. :)

- Doc

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:47 am 
Savior (mortal ministry)
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:38 pm
Posts: 924
Quote:
My reports on the plays that we attend ... have drawn derision in some predictable quarters. Supposedly, I believe that the Church is true because I attend a lot of plays, or something like that. Maybe the argument is really that, because I see a fair amount of theater I imagine myself to be a very sophisticated fellow, and that my claimed sophistication (in my mind, at least) lends special authority to my conviction that the claims of the Restoration are true.

I wouldn't see this as a breach of the deal. It's expressed in pretty neutral language and I think it's accurate enough to count as fair comment.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:08 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19095
PG,

Sure. I recall watching a movie years ago where a scene that involved Catholic priests, the Nazis, and a line in the courtyard played out. The idea was that if anyone crossed this line, a painted line on the ground, they'd be shot on the spot. A Catholic priest would walk out of his quarters, walk up to the line and then toe it. He'd walk up and down the line and wave his toe right up to the line while the Nazis looked on. While I'm sure some people in some quarters might be pleased I'd use that analogy, equating ourselves with Nazis and the ever heroic mopologist as a defiant priest mocking the rule, I believe the analogous behavior stands.

- Doc

eta: One should note that sometimes tip toeing the line results in accidentally stepping over it:

Quote:
Sledge to Dr. Shades • 11 hours ago

Dr. Shades hates Mormons and Mormonism with a burning, insatiable hatred. That's why he runs two hate sites.

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:32 am 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 8990
A link for the Sledge comment about Dr. Shades’ “hate sites,” still up.

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/danp ... 4623325912


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:31 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:04 am
Posts: 5680
Location: Firmly on this earth
Physics Guy wrote:
Quote:
My reports on the plays that we attend ... have drawn derision in some predictable quarters. Supposedly, I believe that the Church is true because I attend a lot of plays, or something like that. Maybe the argument is really that, because I see a fair amount of theater I imagine myself to be a very sophisticated fellow, and that my claimed sophistication (in my mind, at least) lends special authority to my conviction that the claims of the Restoration are true.

I wouldn't see this as a breach of the deal. It's expressed in pretty neutral language and I think it's accurate enough to count as fair comment.


Yeah that one appears decent, but in point of fact, if it isn't Peterson who wants this image for himself, it is absolutely certain that Midgley does, in very point of fact, think just this! It is precisely because they travel a bunch and go out on the town and do big boy stuff like watch Shakespeare plays and create blogs that demonstrates they are always right, which extends to what they say about the church, therefore you can take it to the credit union that Mormonism is true.

_________________
Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:34 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19095
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
PG,

Sure. I recall watching a movie years ago where a scene that involved Catholic priests, the Nazis, and a line in the courtyard played out. The idea was that if anyone crossed this line, a painted line on the ground, they'd be shot on the spot. A Catholic priest would walk out of his quarters, walk up to the line and then toe it. He'd walk up and down the line and wave his toe right up to the line while the Nazis looked on. While I'm sure some people in some quarters might be pleased I'd use that analogy, equating ourselves with Nazis and the ever heroic mopologist as a defiant priest mocking the rule, I believe the analogous behavior stands.

- Doc

eta: One should note that sometimes tip toeing the line results in accidentally stepping over it:

Quote:
Sledge to Dr. Shades • 11 hours ago

Dr. Shades hates Mormons and Mormonism with a burning, insatiable hatred. That's why he runs two hate sites.

And yet again he's playing footsie with 'the line':

Quote:
I note that I’m being accused by a small handful of people of blaming the Mountain Meadows Massacre on “anti-Mormons.”

It's clear he's following this board closely, and because he can't resist making reference to it all the while not wanting to lose Dr. Moore's generous offer of $10,000 to keep his trap shut Mr. Peterson opts for this kind of game playing. Sure one could say he's talking about his commenters, but we know the deal. I just wonder if his supporters will honor his agreement in the comments section...

- Doc

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:03 am 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 8990
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Dr Moore wrote:
Whew! Dean Robbers, and Doc, I was about to type a thoughtful, lengthy response, but have four lectures tonight and a red eye to catch for “donor meetings” tomorrow. Thanks for your thoughts. Much to think about!

Hi Dr. Moore,

I know I don't personally require any sort of justification on your part. I just want you to be aware that references to this board have been made since your deal was enacted. Mr. Peterson moderates his blog pretty tightly, so I find it virtually impossible that he isn't aware of his friends' posting habits.

- Doc

Excellent point. I doubt anyone here needs any justification. It’s a private agreement. However, it has been publicly discussed here, with multiple posts explaining how allowing warnings, multiple warnings, and extra chances is not moving the goalposts, including this warning:

Quote:
The warning was that DCP, to show good faith moderation efforts, would end all such comments from those two participants.

Of course, the original agreement was not limited to only comments by DCP, kiwi and midgley, which is what in part prompted the discussion of moving the goalposts. The original agreement:

Quote:
dr Moore:

Shall we agree that the $10k is in your hands to distribute to worthy causes on fulfillment of the following terms?

1. No derogatory mention of Dr. Shades board, or its members, through end of Feb. 2020. By yourself, and as host of this site, by your good faith effort to moderate such comments by others here.

There has been no response at all, however, to this:

Quote:
Sledge Dr. Shades
a day ago

Dr. Shades hates Mormons and Mormonism with a burning, insatiable hatred. That's why he runs two hate sites.

Physics Guy’s comment continues to hold:

Quote:
So they may claim that they've cleverly obeyed the letter of the agreement while thumbing their nose at its spirit. The way I see it, though, this was never an enforceable contract, and everyone knew that. If somebody's making a voluntary offer of a large donation then either you respect the spirit of their conditions or you don't count on getting the money. And what was the spirit of the conditions in this case? Nothing but common courtesy and refraining from insult, which should be no great effort for adults even without any inducement at all.

Yet even for ten thousand bucks the most they were willing—or able—to do was to substitute "the sty" for "the Shades board". They were not willing—or not able—to refrain from insult, not even for ten thousand dollars to Interpreter.

Or in the case of the most recent comment, “the most they were willing-or able-to do was to substitute [‘hate sites’ ] for ‘Shades’ board.’ “


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:11 am 
Savior (mortal ministry)
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:38 pm
Posts: 924
I actually think we should welcome comments like the recent one by Peterson quoted by Doctor CamNC4Me just above here. Nobody wants to stop Peterson from mentioning this board or commenting on its discussion. Nobody is trying to force him to agree with us or even to like us. I believe Dr Moore's goal is just for the rhetorical tone to be civil, instead of being full of gratuitous verbal abuse. So every time somebody on Peterson's blog posts something about this site that is civil in tone, no matter how critical in content it may be, that's a win for Dr Moore's project as I understand it.

"Sty" is not civil and neither is "hate site". Peterson himself may be able to manage civil criticism but he's evidently having trouble moderating it into some of his commenters. Some of them seem to have a hard time controlling themselves.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:55 am 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 8990
“A hard time moderating” indeed. How hard is it for a moderator to eliminate words such as “sty” and “hate site”, when he has full control over all comments?
Quote:
So every time somebody on Peterson's blog posts something about this site that is civil in tone, no matter how critical in content it may be, that's a win for Dr Moore's project as I understand it.

Agreed. So what message is Peterson sending about Dr Moore’s project by letting the blatant violations stand?

In the long run, however, that’s obviously DM’s concern alone. And in that vein, I would agree with Gadianton’s point that there is no reason to tie in the count and content of threads over here with DM’s agreement with DCP.

Pleas for civility notwithstanding, it really doesn’t hurt anyone here for posters at a blog such as SeN to violate DM’s agreement, given their reputations for egregiously attacking all non-lds. (Although gemli and others may wonder what is going on if attacks against them start to take up all the slack!)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:35 am 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 8990
From Peterson’s blog, the comment section:
Quote:
Sledge to Dr. Shades
5 hours ago

There is very little difference between your site and Stormfront. They even almost look the same.

In any case, you do hate Mormonism. You hate it with such a burning passion that, for two decades after returning from your mission, you have dedicated your very life to defaming, slandering, and execrating it online.

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/danp ... 4626680267


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:09 am 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 8990
Also this:
Quote:
Sledge to Dr. Shades
10 hours ago

That's what my wife says, too.

But hey, at least I don't run two hate sites!

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/danp ... 4626358426


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:48 am 
Savior (mortal ministry)
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:38 pm
Posts: 924
Does Shades have a second site? What am I missing?

Otherwise, Dr. Shades doesn't actually post here all that much. He posts regularly but not obsessively and his posts are generally short. Unless he's really fanatical over on his second site that I haven't seen yet, he seems to be dedicating much less of his life to execrating the Mormon church than numerous apologists dedicate of their lives to defending that church. It's a pretty lackadaisical execration if you ask me.

"Lackadaisical execration" might be a good name for a craft beer.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:22 am 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 8990
The comparison to Stormfront is inappropriate, to say the least. No comments have been moderated yet, so sadly, it will probably be allowed to stay up.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Could this happen? Airing of grievances & simple apologi
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:26 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19095
Does Sledge fall within or outside of Dr. Moore’s ‘vector’?

- Doc

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 188 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dr Moore, esodije, Google [Bot] and 34 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group