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 Post subject: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:28 am 
Nursery
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Hello, my name is empirious. I just officially joined this forum (thank you Dr. Shades). Been a long time lurker and find agreement with many of you. Wishing I didn't have to be anonymous, but I need to keep this under the radar for family, church, and other reasons. I'm sure many of you understand.

I'm hoping to find a seat at your table as a respected discussant, which I know needs to be earned, so I will try my best to be a meaningful contributor.

In general, my story is very similar to many others you've heard before. I was a valiant LDS TBM and then my world began to change as I took responsibility for my own beliefs by questioning them and finding that many of these beliefs could not stand up to scrutiny. I now approach religion on my own terms and am interested in discussing any and all aspects of intellectual inquiry related to topics such as religion, theology, philosophy, scripture, hermeneutics, and many others.

I'm also not afraid of calling out and criticizing the Church when I see dissembling, coverups, gaslighting, abuse of authority, infantilizing members, overemphasizing obedience, bad apologetics, or anything else that harms or oppresses people. This is why I think I'll fit best in the Terrestrial Forum.

Looking forward to being around.

From the newbie's desk,
empirious

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The opposite of faith is not doubt, but certainty. Certainty is missing the point entirely. Anne Lamott, Plan B: Further Thoughts on Faith


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:30 am 
God
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welcome empirious!

Married? Kids? General location (i.e. Mormon Corridor?)


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:36 am 
Holy Ghost
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Welcome, empirious. I too lurked for a while, and am relatively a newbie as I have noticed how long some of the others have been registrants. Lurking was good, but participating is better. Looking forward to reading your contributions.

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Kurt Vonnegut observed: "For some reason, the most vocal Christians...never mention the Beatitudes (Matthew 5). But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course, that's Moses, not Jesus."


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:01 am 
Nursery
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RockSlider wrote:
welcome empirious!

Married? Kids? General location (i.e. Mormon Corridor?)

I'm married with children and we live in the Mormon Corridor.

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The opposite of faith is not doubt, but certainty. Certainty is missing the point entirely. Anne Lamott, Plan B: Further Thoughts on Faith


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:05 am 
God
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empirious wrote:
RockSlider wrote:
welcome empirious!

Married? Kids? General location (i.e. Mormon Corridor?)

I'm married with children and we live in the Mormon Corridor.

Thanks! That's kind of like "a picture tells a thousand words"

Might I ask further spouse/children still active tbm (like several of us here, me included)?


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:07 am 
Nursery
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Holy Ghost wrote:
Welcome, empirious. I too lurked for a while, and am relatively a newbie as I have noticed how long some of the others have been registrants. Lurking was good, but participating is better. Looking forward to reading your contributions.

Thanks, HG. I do have other support outlets but I think this one will be therapeutic in different ways. For one, I can be blunter when I'm feeling a bit pissed off.

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The opposite of faith is not doubt, but certainty. Certainty is missing the point entirely. Anne Lamott, Plan B: Further Thoughts on Faith


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:14 am 
Nursery
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Rockslider, I'm in a mixed-faith marriage and one child has left the church.

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The opposite of faith is not doubt, but certainty. Certainty is missing the point entirely. Anne Lamott, Plan B: Further Thoughts on Faith


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:49 am 
God
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Just jump in, man. Have fun with us.

- Doc

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Honest conflict has more social value than dishonest harmony. People must be in conflict in good faith in order to wrest the truth from a stingy universe.


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:55 am 
God
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Welcome!

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​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:09 am 
God
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Welcome. If you have questions about Mormonism, I suggest you search some of the past threads. There are some really knowledgable posters here that have discussed pretty much any and every issue dealing with Mormonism and can provide real answers instead of deflecting.

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"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:41 am 
God
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Empirious, if you are sufficiently intellectual you can sit on the same side of the table as Gadianton, Symmachus, Honorentheos, and Doctor Scratch. The food is the same, but you will be a tad closer to the kitchen.

No matter what, welcome to the table.

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Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:47 am 
God
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moksha wrote:
Empirious, if you are sufficiently intellectual you can sit on the same side of the table as Gadianton, Symmachus, Honorentheos, and Doctor Scratch. The food is the same, but you will be a tad closer to the kitchen.

No matter what, welcome to the table.

They don't allow me on that side of the table


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:59 am 
Nursery
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moksha wrote:
Empirious, if you are sufficiently intellectual you can sit on the same side of the table as Gadianton, Symmachus, Honorentheos, and Doctor Scratch. The food is the same, but you will be a tad closer to the kitchen.

No matter what, welcome to the table.

Haha! Now that is one tall order!

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The opposite of faith is not doubt, but certainty. Certainty is missing the point entirely. Anne Lamott, Plan B: Further Thoughts on Faith


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:08 pm 
Nursery
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Exiled wrote:
Welcome. If you have questions about Mormonism, I suggest you search some of the past threads. There are some really knowledgable posters here that have discussed pretty much any and every issue dealing with Mormonism and can provide real answers instead of deflecting.

Yes, thanks Exiled. I have had a few opportunities to read threads on this forum and I agree that there some posters here who are very knowledgeable. I look forward to engaging where I can. I'm also glad to be in a place that stays away from deflection, something I have been on the receiving end of too many times.

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The opposite of faith is not doubt, but certainty. Certainty is missing the point entirely. Anne Lamott, Plan B: Further Thoughts on Faith


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:40 pm 
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Welcome aboard, empirious! I look forward to reading your posts.

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"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:04 pm 
God
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Hi and welcome! Come on in the toxic water is fine. This is how Dan Peterson describes this place. I can personally testify it's not toxic except to a brainwashed Mormon who cannot grasp what it is like to actually think through issues instead of simply bowing their heads and saying yes to the brethren..... :biggrin:

I look forward to getting to know you, interact with you, and learn from you!

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Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:21 pm 
God
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Welcome, empirious!


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:12 am 
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moksha wrote:
Empirious, if you are sufficiently intellectual you can sit on the same side of the table as Gadianton, Symmachus, Honorentheos, and Doctor Scratch.


Slippery slope much there, herr penguin...cause, without an et. al.,etc., etc.... That is, I can think of a number of additional posters here who belong on that side of the island. P.G., DrW, EAllusion, Doc Cam, KG, Lemmie, Heck, maybe even Chap. Oops, schiest, now I'm doing it.

Welcome to the board Empirious!


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 Post subject: Re: A Seat at the Table
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:17 am 
God

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Hi Will!
(Obligatory customary greeting for new posters)

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“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')


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