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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:33 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Louis Midgley wrote:
Please notice that I have not posted a comment this morning. The reason is that once again I am simply going to ignore gemli, who boasts that he does not care at all to know a thing about the target of his opinions. There are a few others who are also ignorable, who I will not specifically identify.

This was my response:

I have noticed that you have not posted a comment this morning, especially this one that you did not post. Thank you for ignoring gemli by posting about what you will or won't do regarding gemli. In fact, I think it's great that you were able to post 58 words about how you will ignore gemli by assumedly posting 0 words.

Link: http://disq.us/p/25r1rvj

Lol.


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:19 pm 
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And this, same thread as midgley announcing his ignorance of gemli topics, was pretty profound.
Quote:
David B gemli • 2 days ago

I prayed to [Dr. Harrison]--gave it a go. He responded by giving me the good feelings that I was right after all. He made a mistake in the way he expressed it and wished he'd make it right. I thanked him and he urged me to continue to express myself on Peterson's blog spot, "keep up the good fight", he said. I asked him how he remains in existence and he said he isn't. He is merely a figment of my imagination, and explained, that's how prayer works, you know.

People feel strongly about something and pray to the mighty god above hoping to get some help or guidance and if and when they feel good about whatever it is, they usually take that as an answer to their prayers.

"Sometimes", he said, "I notice people take no answer as an answer. It's odd to sit by and watch. Anything and everything becomes their answer. the subtlest of things can become some grand sign that whatever it is they are thinking or are interested in suddenly becomes God-inspired. They share their stories with others and often the crowd joins together and rejoices in their elevated emotions, thinking they must be truer and better than others because they feel it."

I soon realized I was talking to myself again and was reminded again why it is people believe in God and how it is people actually do believe. My eyes welled up and tears started to form as I considered the great loss of decency in the name of religion, how someone's imaginative idea of how to hurt others became in the eyes of the masses divinely mandated. Ideas were shared and soon people felt anger and resentment too and soon they too knew God wanted these others hurt.

Finally the spirit of Dr. Harrison soothed me..."it'll be ok. People feel comforted by religion. If it weren't religion driving them to hurt others something else would be the culprit and has been. Keep positive and move forward. Tomorrow Dr Peterson and his peeps will continue their unreasonable explanations. You won't change that. But it's good to spar and get to the bottom of your thoughts."

Thanks, Stem! Well said.


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:41 pm 
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Damn well said!

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― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:02 am 
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Gemli is too kind:

Quote:
gemli Louis Midgley • 4 days ago

I see that you're starting to become a bit snarky, bordering on insulting. I want to assure you that I don't take it seriously, because this can happen when someone points out flaws in someone else's worldview.

I must admit that you seem to have a good grasp of history and the dynamics and consequences of political regimes and the like, which are not things that I'm particularly interested in.

But your interest in science seems to extend only to its philosophical aspects, and not at all to the substance of it or the inevitable consequences that science is having on religious faith.

I can assure you that having seen direct evidence of inappropriate boasting, I try to avoid it whenever possible.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... 4697951896


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:54 pm 
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Quote:
Louis Midgley • 2 hours ago

Professor Peterson throws raw meat to poor gemli. No. Poor gemli wrongly sees himself as merely raw meat, or something like that.
Quote:
gemli Louis Midgley • an hour ago

If I were ever to write a novel, I'd call it Poor Gemli. It would be a Dickensian tale of a misunderstood and abused young lad who was given the impossible task of waking people from a dreamworld that they had unknowingly wandered into and could not escape. He was doomed to forever be abused by the very people he was obliged to save. It does not have a happy ending.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Gemli is a gift.


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:47 am 
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Quote:
gemli • a day ago

There's a tendency for people to selectively remember successes and ignore failures when it comes to belief in mystical phenomena. Imagining connections between things that aren't in fact connected is practically a way of life for many people. Examples include ESP, dowsing, phrenology, astrology, horoscopes, miracle cures, homeopathy, Feng Shui, hollow earths, young earths, flat earths, vaccination denial and endless other phenomena and claims that consistently fail to be demonstrated when controlled studies are done.

Such claims abound, but claims are not evidence. Claims are what require evidence. In the case of dowsing, there are any number of factors that might cause a positive result or justify dismissing a negative result. Some are mentioned in the link below.

https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fe ... id=2318198

Quote:
DanielPeterson Mod gemli • 21 hours ago • edited

gemli: "Examples include ESP"

I'm not sure that you're on the solid ground iin this regard that you imagine yourself to be occupying.

gemli: "Examples include . . . dowsing"

Perhaps. I wish that you could have my experience with it, though. I would be curious as to your reaction.

That last sentence from DCP just stuns me. This is a professor at a university, and he doesn’t understand the shaky ground he is on with his self-remembered anecdotal evidence? About dowsing? For all his posturing about science, this is a person who doesn’t understand the principles of science at all.

Gemli explains it to the BYU professor:
Quote:
gemli DanielPeterson • 20 hours ago

Personal experience can be unreliable, particularly when one's worldview would bolstered by positive results. Double-blind studies eliminate unconscious (or conscious) bias of the subjects and the experimenter. Those have produced results that are no different than chance. The problem is that someone who is committed to finding a positive effect might unintentionally interpret vague results in favor of his preferred belief.

But for any paranormal claim, a demonstration of an actual effect would not merely bolster one's spiritual worldview. It was demolish virtually every principle upon which our current world is built. That's very unlikely to happen. (And by "very unlikely" I mean Trump-making-sense unlikely.)

Kiwi of course, still doesn’t understand.

Quote:
Kiwi57 gemli • 20 hours ago

Personal experience can be unreliable
While ideology is infallible?
Quote:
gemli Kiwi57 • 20 hours ago

Every conclusion we come to is potentially fallible. That's why we have standards for investigating claims and require evidence that is commensurate with the nature of the claim.

DCP continues to demonstrate a lack of understanding of scientific method:
Quote:
DanielPeterson Mod gemli • 20 hours ago

gemli: "Personal experience can be unreliable"

Obviously.

gemli: "particularly when one's worldview would bolstered by positive results."

My worldview disposed me AGAINST the experience that I had, not toward it.

Gemli calmly points out the obvious:
Quote:
gemli DanielPeterson • 20 hours ago

From what I've read in some of your previous comments, you might have a predisposition to give credit to dowsing because, as I understand it, Joseph Smith was a proponent of the practice.

DCP follows with more lack of understanding re: anecdotal evidence.

Quote:
DanielPeterson Mod gemli • 20 hours ago

Nope.

I was shocked by my success.

Gemli tries again:
Quote:
gemli DanielPeterson • 20 hours ago

I used to enjoy playing video poker a couple of decades ago at a little casino on the Gulf Coast. (Oddly, I don't think I ever saw you there. Perhaps you were at the bar, or having a smoke. But I digress.) On one particular machine, I was dealt four royal flushes in a few weeks' time. Given that one can play for years and never get a single royal flush, I was shocked by my success. Try as I might, I was unable to attribute this boon to anything but luck. I'll wager (ahem) that digging a hole and finding water is somewhat more likely.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And STILL, DCP fails at scientific methodology:
Quote:
DanielPeterson Mod gemli • 19 hours ago

Nobody expects you to believe, gemli.

Nobody even expects you to seriously consider challenges to your worldview.

You're safe.

Gemli clearly explains DCP’s error:
Quote:
gemli DanielPeterson • 19 hours ago

A proper challenge to my worldview would involve more than an anecdote of a surprising coincidence.

But no. The BYU professor rejects science again:
Quote:
DanielPeterson Mod gemli • 19 hours ago

It wouldn't matter. You wouldn't look, anyway.
gemli is game for another round:
Quote:
gemli DanielPeterson • 19 hours ago

I'm not sure how you'd expect me to react to finding water in a hole.

What you could do to make this experiment more impressive is dowse for water in a large, unexplored area, dig a hole where the rods indicate and see if there's water there or not. Regardless of the outcome, dig a hundred randomly spaced holes around the area in a grid layout and get an idea of how much water is under the surface and where it's actually located. Repeat this process several times in several different areas. The results would start to give a picture of whether dowsing had any validity.



https://disqus.com/home/discussion/danp ... ining_rod/

The BYU professor’s comments in this exchange barely rise to the level of uneducated pseudo-scientism, while gemli represents a much better educated approach to scientific analysis. I always enjoy his comments.


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:16 am 
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Quote:
Dr. Exiled > Moksha • 8 hours ago

You know, I just did my first dowsing with a coat hanger and found water! It only took me 30 times but I found it.


And of course the 'mazin Mormon dowsing Doctor hit it out of the park with only one try:


Quote:
Daniel "pseudoscience" Peterson > Dr. Exiled • 3 hours ago • edited

Cute.

You must be really bad, though. I was successful on my first try.


It's the strangest thing to witness an accredited university supporting this kind of nonsense. What message does BYU send to its students, alumni, and the larger world when they employ people who claim dowsing is legitimate? Absolutely nuts.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:32 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Quote:
Dr. Exiled > Moksha • 8 hours ago

You know, I just did my first dowsing with a coat hanger and found water! It only took me 30 times but I found it.


And of course the 'mazin Mormon dowsing Doctor hit it out of the park with only one try:


Quote:
Daniel "pseudoscience" Peterson > Dr. Exiled • 3 hours ago • edited

Cute.

You must be really bad, though. I was successful on my first try.


It's the strangest thing to witness an accredited university supporting this kind of nonsense. What message does BYU send to its students, alumni, and the larger world when they employ people who claim dowsing is legitimate? Absolutely nuts.

- Doc

Note, his original argument was that he could do it, secretaries could do it, even a guest and a mailman could do it.

Quote:

Each time, the rods crossed at the same place in the room.

So I had the secretaries do it, too. And a guest who came into the office while I was there. And the mailman, when he came.

In each case, the rods crossed at that same location in the room.

Only once did this fail to occur. That was in the case of our mechanic, Red Faler, a massive bear of a man who, I suspect, held the rods too tightly in his huge hands to allow them to move freely.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... ience.html



His last comment about the mechanic not allowing the rods to move freely is addressed in the link gemli gave:
Quote:

Dowsing is considered to be a pseudoscience.[71][72][73]

Science writers such as William Benjamin Carpenter (1877), Millais Culpin (1920), and Martin Gardner (1957) considered the movement of dowsing rods to be the result of unconscious muscular action.[74][75][76]

This view is widely accepted amongst the scientific community[9][10][77][78] and also by some in the dowsing community.[79]

The dowsing apparatus is known to amplify slight movements of the hands caused by a phenomenon known as the ideomotor response: people's subconscious minds may influence their bodies without consciously deciding to take action. This would make the dowsing rod susceptible to the dowsers's subconscious knowledge or perception; but also to confirmation bias.[9][80][81][82][83]


DCP’s “experiment” is a great example of confirmation bias and ideomotor response, coupled with gemli’s comment re: probability and “remembering”.


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:37 am 
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Dowsing rods, like a ouija boards, strangely seem to stop working when the operator is blindfolded and asked to reproduce their results.

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LDS Church "Come Follow Me" manual in 2020, print version.


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:26 pm 
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Gemli, making a very astute observation about Martin Harris.

Quote:
gemli • 8 hours ago
What a lucky coincidence that Joseph Smith found a scribe who was able to see the Lord in his guise as a forest creature. Not only does it all but guarantee he's not going to question the magical translation process, but it brings new meaning to the expression "Deer Jesus."


https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... qus_thread

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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:31 pm 
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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Gemli, making a very astute observation about Martin Harris.

Quote:
gemli • 8 hours ago
What a lucky coincidence that Joseph Smith found a scribe who was able to see the Lord in his guise as a forest creature. Not only does it all but guarantee he's not going to question the magical translation process, but it brings new meaning to the expression "Deer Jesus."


https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... qus_thread


I wish Gemli had the time or the interest in delving into church history a little bit. All would benefit from clever remarks like the one above.

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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:37 pm 
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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Gemli, making a very astute observation about Martin Harris.

Quote:
gemli • 8 hours ago
What a lucky coincidence that Joseph Smith found a scribe who was able to see the Lord in his guise as a forest creature. Not only does it all but guarantee he's not going to question the magical translation process, but it brings new meaning to the expression "Deer Jesus."

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... qus_thread

And I will prophecy in the name of "Deer Jesus" That the new Witness film by Interpreter will NOT discuss this part of supreme gullibility in one of the Book of Mormon witnesses by using this example, which, thanks to Dan Vogel being truthful helped convince me the witnesses issue is dead. NO apologist deals with this part of the character of the witnesses. And it is entirely RELEVANT, and THEY KNOW IT. They cannot plead ignorance of this.

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Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:50 pm 
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Quote:
gemli • 8 hours ago
"Deer Jesus."

Image
I am listening Gemli...

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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:01 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Quote:
gemli • 8 hours ago
"Deer Jesus."

Image
I am listening Gemli...

Doesn't this put Mormonism in a . . . rut? :biggrin:

_________________
Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:21 am 
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My word, the Midge is laser focused on creating a Gemli Fantasy World that he can endlessly speculate about:

Quote:
Louis “don’t ask me about my father” Midgley 6 minutes ago

Those who have followed Dan's blog at all with be painfully aware of poor gemli's dogmatic atheist religion. And perhaps they will recall my asking him many dozens of times if it was Freud or Marx who finally explained atheism. Or did both fail because they were not properly scientific? I could never get an answer from gemli. And everyone should know that gemli failed at physics because it is heavily involved in mathematics. It is easy to see why gemli would even brush aside an atheist who was a philosopher, The reason is that philosophy is not science in his world, even though Aristotle gave us the biological classification system.

So I have wondered why gemli is here explaining why psychology should not be used to explain how one's relationship with one's father should not be used to explain why people become atheists. I think that gemli prefers the kind of psychology that avoids dealing with the human soul, and does things, instead, with mice and rats.


- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:57 pm 
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Remember this?

Quote:
Louis Midgley [October, 2019]

Exactly what absurd remarks have I made about gemli's personal life?

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/danp ... 4643133112

Gemli has commented it, also, both to Midgley and also to the prioprietor of the blog where he is regularly stalked and harassed by Midgley. Not that it’s made any difference. Same link:

Quote:
gemli >> Louis Midgley

You seem to have a penchant for filling in details of my life based on virtually no actual information. While this is practically a requirement for writing fantasy novels or being devoutly religious, it's not a particularly effective way to build an image of a real person.

——
gemli >> DanielPeterson

Lou is forever writing little biographical sketches of my life, in his charming third-person style, based on fragments of my personal data. He wants to know what I've studied, what I've published and where I live, as well as chastising me for not revealing my real name. I suppose I'm not the only one who's noticed it.


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:18 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Quote:
gemli • 8 hours ago
"Deer Jesus."

Image
I am listening Gemli...

It cannot be coincidental that iPhone autocorrects "seer" to "deer" on the regular.


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 Post subject: Re: more of gemli's gems
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:45 pm 
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If you think about it, you know, iPhones are just like deer stones.

D’oh!


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